HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

[cornhuskid]

Help!

I've narrowed my choices to these two (see title!), which to choose?

Both are in excellent condition and should be decent shooters. This is for informal short to medium range (700 meters max) plate shooting. Both are in 7.62x51.

HK91- HK91 Link

Pros : I know the platform and some accessories will swap with my HK93. Mags are super inexpensive and I already have a Hensoldt/STANIG combo that will fit. Spare parts are a breeze to find.

Cons : I've already had one (sounds silly, but you guys know what I mean), they tend to kick more than they should and it's not a milled receiver. Heavier weight bullets are discouraged.


Valmet M78 RPK - Valmet M78 RPK Link

(second picture down)


Pros : It's an RPK. Cool factor is way high. Should be a really good shooter, heavy barrel and the rifle is built in Finland. Accurized AK. 168 SMK are no problem for this rifle, and it has a milled, forged receiver. This is not Comm Block crap, very fine rifle. Rifle will kick less than the 91.

Cons : Parts are hard to find (I am most concerned with springs, firing pins and eventually a barrel), and the cost of mags when you can find them are ungodly. It does come with four...

Help me decide guys. Both are about the same price and condition. PLEASE... it took me this long to narrow it down to two, let's stay on task and decide which one of these.

Thanks!

 

[eracer]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

I've always wanted a Valmet, but in .223. The downside is the 7.62x39 cartridge - I'm just not a fan for medium/long range shooting. The .308 NATO the HK91 shoots is just so much better, and the HK is a pretty cool gun as well.

The question is: "Will a 150gr .308 NATO bullet kill plates better than the 168gr Russian at 700 yards?"

 

[cornhuskid]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

They both shoot the 7.62x51 NATO. the Valmet was offered in the 7.62x31 as well as 556 as well. This one is 7.62x51 (.308)

j

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

Both are difficult to find, realitively, but both will hold their value well depending on condition. You'll need to confirm whether or not the Valmet has an optic rail attached to the receiver for optics support. These weapons are more collectable than practical shooters. PTR-91 will do the same, if not better, than the HK at a 1/3 of the cost. The Valmet is a well made weapon...but it would stand up to most if any of the other .308/7.62x51mm semi-auto offerings out there with respect to accuracy.

 

[cornhuskid]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

The Valmet has a cover with a scope rail on it, but I would have to find it and am unsure of the stability it would have. If I go with that one it's open sights only for me. (but that might be 1/2 the fun)

I am not a clone lover, and both of these are in great condition. I shoot my 93 once in a while and it still looks new. Resale is important (why I am not looking at a CETME or something like a FAL clone). I had to talk myself out of a Enterprise build FAL Jungle Carbine with folding stock!

These are both prices by a friend of mine at 2K each, PTR is not that much less for a clone...

Thank you!

Jeff

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

I always wanted an HK91. Supercool.

 

[Ultraman550]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

I'd say get the Valmet. Especially if you can get it with beautiful wood furniture on it.

Edit: If it comes with 4 mags already then I wouldn't worry about getting more. As for the spare parts I guess it depends on how much you're going to shoot it. I love them both but theres just something that stands out about it. Is there anyway you can change it to a belt fed receiver?

 

[cornhuskid]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

it has nice wood, not grade AAA or anything...

 

[Bedlam]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

Valmet.

If I already had an HK-91, I wouldn't get another unless you were planning to configure them in radically different ways.

 

[cornhuskid]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

Had was the operative word... I sold the 91 a while a go, but kept the 93.

This would be much easier if there were at least ONE place on the net to buy Valmet parts (besides the little shop in Finland...) I could not believe it, 300 bucks for a used magazine, no barrel supplier and mixed messages when asking about firing pins and such. The HK has much better product support, but the Valmet is damn cool... Buy both not an option at this time.

Keep the ideas coming guys, I need to decide within 24 hours.

 

[dduck44]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

My vote goes to the HK91

 

[JFK52]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

The HK-91 is the way to go. You can tame the "kick" by going with a heavier buffer, either from HK or Bill Springfield offers one that works for a lot less money. You did not mention if you reload. The 91 stridates and lightly dings up the brass. That does not bother me. I mostly shoot Radway Green in mine and only pick up the brass for the recycler.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

having had both, i would go with the valmet.

 

[Bedlam]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cornhuskid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had was the operative word... I sold the 91 a while a go, but kept the 93.</div></div>

In that case, I'd still go with the Valmet. Getting an HK-91 again would be like remarrying an ex-wife!

 

[SMS Burly]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

i own the HK91 and love it. never shot the other one, so i cannot speak for it

 

[Skum]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always wanted an HK91. Supercool. </div></div>

im with this guy love it

 

[Uhlan]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

Valmet! I've had both and sold both but the Valmet was more pleasant to shoot and IMHO more accurate. Galil 308 mags and modified M14 mags work with the M78 also.

 

[Uhlan]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

Rebarreling an AK/Valmet isn't impossible. Burning out the Chrome lined bbl on semi auto is going to take dedication and a lot of money at $400+/M. I imagine a bumpfire stock mod might speed things up but......

?

 

[cal50]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

HK or PTR91 in .308


I owned a couple Valmet's (76 & 78) and they are top quality rifles. My HK simple performs better than the Valmet in .308.
A Hensoldt scope is cheap and can be added in minutes if you want optics. My only gripe with the Valmet was so/ so accuracy and the trigger. The stock HK trigger is no champ either but easily fixed with a couple stones and a 6-pack.

The 78 has a short sight radius with open and fat sights which makes it harder to fire with precision. The HK diopter /peep is light years ahead of the AK style. I am also not a huge wood fan. Both on my Valmets had gorgeous wood furniture so if your into wood that might be a plus.

I liked my PSL in 7.62X54R better than the Valmet to be honest and its a LOT cheaper.

 

[Ghogs Nightmare]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

Have you considered a PTR91 or does it absolutely have to be the HK?

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

This is from PTR:
"The original PTR rifle was first conceived in 2002, when a predecessor company purchased tooling and designs for the HK line of roller-lock weapons from Fabrica Militar of Portugal."

It's an HK design made buy HK machines made in the US. Sounds good to me

 

[cal50]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ghogs Nightmare</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you considered a PTR91 or does it absolutely have to be the HK? </div></div>



I sold my HK 91 and built a G3 clone on a PTR receiver. My Hensoldt scope fits the PTR receiver better than my factory HK. I added a paddle mag release which is a nice option I would never do to a factory HK91 due to the cost of it.

The PTR rifles are very good quality if you desire an HK style rifle.

 

[eclipse57]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

My vote goes to the Valmet. It has a lot of CDI factor and the Valmet's are the best of the AK type rifles.

The one rifle I really regret not buying was the Valmet M-78. Could have gotten one about 10 - 11 years ago for 900.00 with one magazine. What a dumbass move.

I have seen HK-91's and they are cool, but not Valmet cool.

Please post pictures of your final decision.

 

[edwin907]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

I've got a stamped M-78 in 308, bought it for $600 in 1984, 5 spare 20 round Valmet mags ran me $15 each when the gun shop finally found them (almost 2 years after I ordered/they recieved them)!
Properly "tuned" Galil 25 rounders work well, got a few of them too, but make sure the bullet feeds properly, and clearance at the top rear of the mag may need to be added in addition to the front catch.
Pretty much "battle rifle" accuracy or a little better, mine is pretty dang good with 168s after slight fouling however.

 

[Steve Jensen]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

Are you going to shoot it or just fondle it? Had an HK91 and hated the way it felt. It was relatively accurate(battle rifle-ish), dependable and never broke. If it did break, parts were available everywhere. If you want, the PSG parts are out there.
The Valmet is a great rifle, relatively accurate(again battle rifle-ish) and utterly dependable till it breaks and then you are screwed.
Shooter or safe queen?

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

You could put a 2-stage buffer in the HK-91 to help with recoil.

I'd join over at HKPro.com as they're a wealth of knowledge on anything and everything HK.

 

[cornhuskid]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

Thank you everyone for the thoughts...

I pick up my HK91 on Sat. Biggest factors were:

Parts availability
Accessories compatible with the HK93
Having two out of three of the best battle weapons out there. (looking for an HK94 next spring!)

Jeff

 

[JoshcBoucher]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

Just saw your post. I think there was a "91" for sale on this site, with 50, yes 5zero mags included, with some rounds. If ya need some extra mags, he might have them.

 

[kimberseries1]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is from PTR:
"The original PTR rifle was first conceived in 2002, when a predecessor company purchased tooling and designs for the HK line of roller-lock weapons from Fabrica Militar of Portugal."

It's an HK design made buy HK machines made in the US. Sounds good to me </div></div>


I've heard through the grapevine that PTR91s are having hell. Something about either out of spec receivers, or roller-lock design problems. From what I've heard, i.e. not taken the time to research myself, is that they did not stick to the original HK design enough and many many rifles are having boo-coos problems.

I've heard this 6 months ago, and I don't know how dated the info was then, or if it's resolved by now. Again, this is just passed on info from those in "the loop", and I use that term loosely. I'm not trying to pass on bad intel, or flame any product, just sharing my concerns.

I realize any weapon is a crap shoot, all mfg's. have their lemons, but I try to lean in the direction of what I perceive to be the lowest % of problems.......coming from a Kimber fanboy

So if $ is not a factor, I'd stick with the HK.....

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cornhuskid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you everyone for the thoughts...

I pick up my HK91 on Sat. Biggest factors were:

Parts availability
Accessories compatible with the HK93
Having two out of three of the best battle weapons out there. (looking for an HK94 next spring!)

Jeff
</div></div>

I bought an MP5 parts kit and an LSC receiver and weld up kit and had one built up. Join up on HKPro.com and talk to Jeff Walters (aka GhillieBear). He's a very well known builder on HKPro and his turn-around times are fantastic as well as his product.

Here's a link to one a member is selling that Jeff built.

http://img443.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=dscn0443yb.jpg

 

[cal50]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kimberseries1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is from PTR:
"The original PTR rifle was first conceived in 2002, when a predecessor company purchased tooling and designs for the HK line of roller-lock weapons from Fabrica Militar of Portugal."

It's an HK design made buy HK machines made in the US. Sounds good to me </div></div>


I've heard through the grapevine that PTR91s are having hell. Something about either out of spec receivers, or roller-lock design problems. From what I've heard, i.e. not taken the time to research myself, is that they did not stick to the original HK design enough and many many rifles are having boo-coos problems.

I've heard this 6 months ago, and I don't know how dated the info was then, or if it's resolved by now. Again, this is just passed on info from those in "the loop", and I use that term loosely. I'm not trying to pass on bad intel, or flame any product, just sharing my concerns.

I realize any weapon is a crap shoot, all mfg's. have their lemons, but I try to lean in the direction of what I perceive to be the lowest % of problems.......coming from a Kimber fanboy

So if $ is not a factor, I'd stick with the HK..... </div></div>


Isolated problem on early guns. Some guns developed a cracked trunnion (bad) and PTR replaced the entire rifle.

Some guns did not cycle and the chamber fluting was changed.

Fire it and see if it works.

Link to trunnion serial number range~

http://fwd4.me/11MG

 

[AGG]

Re: HK91 or Valmet M78 RPK

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Glad</span> to be <span style="font-weight: bold">back</span> from my <span style="font-weight: bold">ban</span></span>!!!

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">I</span> would <span style="font-weight: bold">go</span> the <span style="font-weight: bold">HK91</span> route--- <span style="font-weight: bold">Valmet parts</span> are <span style="font-weight: bold">much more difficult</span> to <span style="font-weight: bold">acquire</span></span>.

Tony