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Advanced Marksmanship Hoizontal Stringing

djskit

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 3, 2008
611
15
56
Roseville, CA
I have a nasty glitch in my marksmanship that causes horizontal stringing of up to 1 inch in either direction at 100 yards. It's not parallax, not centering the eye on the scope, not body position behind the rifle, not centering the trigger press as I have altered those variables to the extreme and cannot consistently replicate the problem.

I think it has to do with how I my hand is interfacing with the grip and trigger press.

Any ideas or suggestions?
 
No cookie-cutter answer here without more information.

What are you using for support? (front and rear)
 
Horizontal groups are seating depth of the bullets. Vertical groups are improper powder measuring.
 
All,

Horizontal grouping shows good elevation and poor trigger control. Possible causes are:

1. High right shoulder
2. High vertical position
3. Jerking the trigger
4 .Varying head pressure
5. Movement of the right elbow
6. No stability of position
7. Change in sight picture
8. Failure to maintain proper sight alignment

Shooter errors, such as moving the rifle, not countering for the effects of wind and weather, or poor sight alignment, as well as errors caused by a broken rifle or defective ammunition can be recognized by logical troubleshooting. This is called shooter/target analysis. One method of analysis is appraisal of the call/strike corollary. From it, error from wind, or movement of the gun can be easily discerned. For example, beginning with a properly zeroed rifle for a no-wind condition, a shot called right-in-there but striking left or right of call would indicate not correctly countering for the effect of wind. A shot on call but striking someplace other than where desired would indicate movement of the rifle.

It appears that most shooters do not have any understanding about how to analyze their shots; thus, they suffer to become the really good shooters they're aspiring to be. In competition or practice, these shooters will not be able to make the most of their work in progress; and worse, they may develop muscle memory which could undermine their results.

Without a coach, and without any clue about shooter/target analysis a shooter may still get off to a good start by concentrating on the fundamentals while executing the two firing tasks; but, at some point, the shooter who learns something about shooter/target analysis will hasten desired results.
 
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Since no one mentioned it. I would say breathing. Better yet your heart beat is transferring into the rifle.
 
Since no one mentioned it. I would say breathing. Better yet your heart beat is transferring into the rifle.

No one mentioned it because it is not about breathing. And, transfer of heart beat is about muscular tension or a sling not adjusted properly on the arm. That sort of thing is about not understanding how to build a proper position. It leads to number 6. on the list I earlier posted.
 
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I have a nasty glitch in my marksmanship that causes horizontal stringing of up to 1 inch in either direction at 100 yards.
I think it has to do with how I my hand is interfacing with the grip and trigger press.

It can happen on any of my 3 match rifles - but not the smaller .223.

Any ideas or suggestions?

grip and trigger press putting a death grip on the heavier recoiling rifle in order to try to "compensate" for it, and not following through with the heavier calibers.

shoot a few support side, it's amazing how much more you concentrate on fundamentals when things are reversed.

heck even dry fire a few and see where the crosshairs end up

is the grip too wide / thick for your hand vs. the .223 or the LOP different on the .223 rig from the other ones?

i think sterling shooter wrapped it up pretty nicely the other stuff it could be.
 
Are you dry firing at all? Dry fire will shot how your trigger press is.

To me, it sounds like a trigger mashing issue.
 
grip and trigger press putting a death grip on the heavier recoiling rifle in order to try to "compensate" for it, and not following through with the heavier calibers.

shoot a few support side, it's amazing how much more you concentrate on fundamentals when things are reversed.

heck even dry fire a few and see where the crosshairs end up

is the grip too wide / thick for your hand vs. the .223 or the LOP different on the .223 rig from the other ones?

i think sterling shooter wrapped it up pretty nicely the other stuff it could be.

To add a point, I the problem does not occur when I shoot weak-side - which re-inforces the grip/trigger press focus.
 
All,

Horizontal grouping shows good elevation and poor trigger control. Possible causes are:

1. High right shoulder
2. High vertical position
3. Jerking the trigger
4 .Varying head pressure
5. Movement of the right elbow
6. No stability of position
7. Change in sight picture
8. Failure to maintain proper sight alignment

Shooter errors, such as moving the rifle, not countering for the effects of wind and weather, or poor sight alignment, as well as errors caused by a broken rifle or defective ammunition can be recognized by logical troubleshooting. This is called shooter/target analysis. One method of analysis is appraisal of the call/strike corollary. From it, error from wind, or movement of the gun can be easily discerned. For example, beginning with a properly zeroed rifle for a no-wind condition, a shot called right-in-there but striking left or right of call would indicate not correctly countering for the effect of wind. A shot on call but striking someplace other than where desired would indicate movement of the rifle.

It appears that most shooters do not have any understanding about how to analyze their shots; thus, they suffer to become the really good shooters they're aspiring to be. In competition or practice, these shooters will not be able to make the most of their work in progress; and worse, they may develop muscle memory which could undermine their results.

Without a coach, and without any clue about shooter/target analysis a shooter may still get off to a good start by concentrating on the fundamentals while executing the two firing tasks; but, at some point, the shooter who learns something about shooter/target analysis will hasten desired results.

Very good points - I will go through this post and adress them point-by-point in my dry firing.
 
It appears that most shooters do not have any understanding about how to analyze their shots; thus, they suffer to become the really good shooters they're aspiring to be. In competition or practice, these shooters will not be able to make the most of their work in progress; and worse, they may develop muscle memory which could undermine their results.

This is the best bit of wisdom I have heard in a while and illustrates the limitations in my development precisely. This is the only issue that's holding me back from breaking into the next level of performance. This, and the wind.

I think the positional/prop shooting I have done in competitions on 2 MOA sized targets has really re-inforced some bad habits. You can get on some goofy prop, muscle a shot on the steel and still hit it. Lay prone at an try and hold 1/2 MOA is a very different shooting style.
 
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You might want to try out this dry fire procedure:

1. Shoulder rifle and align sight, not looking at the target. You should have a natural point of aim somewhere off the target.
2. Adjust NPA for desired sight picture.
3. Pull focus (concentration) from target to reticle.
4. Pull trigger with mental thought of doing it SMOOTHLY.
5. Follow-through.

Absent recoil, following this procedure you will be able to easily discern rifle movement from muscle or poor trigger control.
 
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