I have an 870 for hunting, but am thinking about getting a sawed off shottie for home defense. Any suggestions on a good make/model for that purpose?
Sidearms & Scatterguns Home defense ?
- Thread starter prairiefire
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I will preface that I am not an expert, but I have had numerous people, that I trust and respect, tell me the following.
If you want a shotgun for home defense, get a semi auto. The whole "easy to unjam" part of a pump action shotgun is only for people well trained in thier use. Most folks are more likely to short stroke a pump action shotgun, under stress, than a semi auto shotgun is to jam. Also that the old "scare them off with the pump of a shotgun" is machismo. If you're going to lethal force, the first thing they should hear, should be a weapon firing. Go semi auto, and try different rounds at the range, to find a load the shotgun feeds well.
And then following that, don't use a shotgun, get a rifle. An AR filled with 28-30 rounds of hunting round 5.56 is more controllable, accurate, and reliable than any shotgun. Plus you get to pull the trigger 30 times, instead of what's usually a max of 7.
Shotguns really don't have much spread at the distances you'll find inside a home. So unless you have a serious issue with needing to avoid over penetrating into your kid's bedroom or something, get an AR.
If you want a shotgun for home defense, get a semi auto. The whole "easy to unjam" part of a pump action shotgun is only for people well trained in thier use. Most folks are more likely to short stroke a pump action shotgun, under stress, than a semi auto shotgun is to jam. Also that the old "scare them off with the pump of a shotgun" is machismo. If you're going to lethal force, the first thing they should hear, should be a weapon firing. Go semi auto, and try different rounds at the range, to find a load the shotgun feeds well.
And then following that, don't use a shotgun, get a rifle. An AR filled with 28-30 rounds of hunting round 5.56 is more controllable, accurate, and reliable than any shotgun. Plus you get to pull the trigger 30 times, instead of what's usually a max of 7.
Shotguns really don't have much spread at the distances you'll find inside a home. So unless you have a serious issue with needing to avoid over penetrating into your kid's bedroom or something, get an AR.
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There's more reasons to use a shotgun than the small pattern you get within home distances. The main one being the massive damage a load of buckshot does at close range. They're also easy to learn to get quick hits because they point well. The main downside to a shotgun vs a carbine in 223 is over penetration from the shotgun that's loaded with a proper defensive load (buckshot or slug).
Can you define "home defense". If you're talking about holding off a mob of angry folks from your property then an AR 15 is what you want. If you're talking about protecting yourself at night from an armed burgler then you may want to consider a handgun. Every time the latter comes up a shot gun is usually the first thing on people's tongue but have you ever tried to clear your house with s shotgun on the dark? A good handgun of your choice will go a long way and accomplish what you needvv
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I prefer a pistol for home defense . If you're going outside to check the perimeter, then I'd grab the shotty/carbine; both should have a flashlight and/or night sights.
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Part of indoor home defense, especially at night is the dulling of one's alertness, coordination and orientation. That's why I originally posited the query about a shotgun. A short barreled weapon with out the need to be right on COM for aiming at an intruder would seem to favor the scatter pattern of a shotgun. Type of choke makes a big difference. However, after further thought I have settled on a 5.7. High mag capacity, option of going with a PS90 and it's demonstrated lethality makes a good combo + it's something my wife could easily handle should she need to get involved.. Likewise, the ability to use the weapon one handed (at my age, arthritis in my wrists is a problem) is a plus. And in case one questions the effectiveness of the 5.7, read this from a 2014 article in Defensive Carry:
The FN 5.7 pistol is constantly maligned or underestimated in many gun forums and articles, often by people who have never experienced shooting the pistol. Subjective comparisons with the .22 magnum or categorization as a sub-par .223 round create confusion about the effectiveness of the FN 5.7.
Enough time has passed after the terrorist attack at Ft. Hood. The shooter, Nidal Malik Hassan, has been arrested, tried and sentenced. The media has moved on. Now we can begin to analyze the impact of the FN 5.7 and address the question of lethality.
Using SS192 and SS197SR ammunition (common commercial 5.7x28 ammo), several 20-30 roundmagazines and an FN 5.7 (shooter also had a .357 revolver but did not use it), Hassan killed 13 and wounded 32 people.
Many armchair ballistics expert criticized this result as proof that the FN 5.7 platform is not lethal enough because of the proportion of the fatalities to the wounded. Others have proposed that had Hassan use another type of pistol, 9mm or .45, there would have been more fatalities.
If you look at this Wikipedia link and look at the list of casualties, one can come to a very eye-opening conclusion.
Fort Hood shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1. 11 people were shot center-of-mass (COM), one was shot in the stomach and one was shot in the head. All 13 died. All 11 victims who were shot COM did not survive.
2. 3 of the 13 people who died, tried to charge Hassan, but he stopped them with COM shots.
3. The 32 people who were wounded were hit in the arms, legs, hips and shoulders. None of the wounded survivors were shot COM.
The following conclusions can be drawn:
1. The FN 5.7 is a very lethal round CQB because all 11 victims who were shot COM died. No survivors for those hit COM.
2. The FN 5.7 is a real stopper, because 3 tried to charge Hassan at close range and were stopped by COM shots.
3. One of the fatalities was shot in the stomach, and died. The fragmentation of the SS197R roundcan create a hail of metal shards that can cause serious internal organ damage and bleeding in the stomach.
4. None of the 32 people who were hit in the extremities, hips and shoulders were able to muster a counter-attack because the FN 5.7 must have shattered or broken bones. The high rate of wounded vicitms to fatalities was the direct result of the shooting ability of Hassan (or lack thereof), and not because the 5.7x28 round is not lethal.
5. Sgt. Kimberly Munley (base civilian police), one of the first responders, was immediately disabled with 5.7x28 bullet shrapnels to her wrist and a second 5.7x28 bullet broke her femur. The light 5.7x28 commercial ammo showed that it can shatter large bones due to its velocity
6. According to medical personnel, there was so much blood in the room that it was difficult to get to the victims because the floor became very slippery. One can conclude that the commercial 5.7x28 rounds can fragment or tumble, causing immense blood loss.
7. It took five bullets (which I assume was a 9 mm) from Sgt Mark Todd to stop Hasan. And he survived his wounds (no available info on where he was hit, except that one of the bullets paralyzed Hasan).
In conclusion:
1. The FN 5.7 is definitely a very lethal round. 100% fatality for COM shots.
2. The FN 5.7 is a man-stopper. Three military men tried to charge Hasan, and all three were stopped.
3. The FN 5.7 is a very incapacitating round, if extremities are hit, because it is powerful enough to break the femur (which is the largest bone in the body)
4. The fragmentation or tumbling effect of commercial ammo can cause a lot of blood loss.
The FN 5.7 is a very effective weapon. I am duly impressed by the comment above about NONE of the people hit with the 5.7 round (but not killed) were unable to continue an attack.
Not looking to start another endless debate about the superiority of one caliber over another - just stating my reasons for my choice.
The FN 5.7 pistol is constantly maligned or underestimated in many gun forums and articles, often by people who have never experienced shooting the pistol. Subjective comparisons with the .22 magnum or categorization as a sub-par .223 round create confusion about the effectiveness of the FN 5.7.
Enough time has passed after the terrorist attack at Ft. Hood. The shooter, Nidal Malik Hassan, has been arrested, tried and sentenced. The media has moved on. Now we can begin to analyze the impact of the FN 5.7 and address the question of lethality.
Using SS192 and SS197SR ammunition (common commercial 5.7x28 ammo), several 20-30 roundmagazines and an FN 5.7 (shooter also had a .357 revolver but did not use it), Hassan killed 13 and wounded 32 people.
Many armchair ballistics expert criticized this result as proof that the FN 5.7 platform is not lethal enough because of the proportion of the fatalities to the wounded. Others have proposed that had Hassan use another type of pistol, 9mm or .45, there would have been more fatalities.
If you look at this Wikipedia link and look at the list of casualties, one can come to a very eye-opening conclusion.
Fort Hood shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1. 11 people were shot center-of-mass (COM), one was shot in the stomach and one was shot in the head. All 13 died. All 11 victims who were shot COM did not survive.
2. 3 of the 13 people who died, tried to charge Hassan, but he stopped them with COM shots.
3. The 32 people who were wounded were hit in the arms, legs, hips and shoulders. None of the wounded survivors were shot COM.
The following conclusions can be drawn:
1. The FN 5.7 is a very lethal round CQB because all 11 victims who were shot COM died. No survivors for those hit COM.
2. The FN 5.7 is a real stopper, because 3 tried to charge Hassan at close range and were stopped by COM shots.
3. One of the fatalities was shot in the stomach, and died. The fragmentation of the SS197R roundcan create a hail of metal shards that can cause serious internal organ damage and bleeding in the stomach.
4. None of the 32 people who were hit in the extremities, hips and shoulders were able to muster a counter-attack because the FN 5.7 must have shattered or broken bones. The high rate of wounded vicitms to fatalities was the direct result of the shooting ability of Hassan (or lack thereof), and not because the 5.7x28 round is not lethal.
5. Sgt. Kimberly Munley (base civilian police), one of the first responders, was immediately disabled with 5.7x28 bullet shrapnels to her wrist and a second 5.7x28 bullet broke her femur. The light 5.7x28 commercial ammo showed that it can shatter large bones due to its velocity
6. According to medical personnel, there was so much blood in the room that it was difficult to get to the victims because the floor became very slippery. One can conclude that the commercial 5.7x28 rounds can fragment or tumble, causing immense blood loss.
7. It took five bullets (which I assume was a 9 mm) from Sgt Mark Todd to stop Hasan. And he survived his wounds (no available info on where he was hit, except that one of the bullets paralyzed Hasan).
In conclusion:
1. The FN 5.7 is definitely a very lethal round. 100% fatality for COM shots.
2. The FN 5.7 is a man-stopper. Three military men tried to charge Hasan, and all three were stopped.
3. The FN 5.7 is a very incapacitating round, if extremities are hit, because it is powerful enough to break the femur (which is the largest bone in the body)
4. The fragmentation or tumbling effect of commercial ammo can cause a lot of blood loss.
The FN 5.7 is a very effective weapon. I am duly impressed by the comment above about NONE of the people hit with the 5.7 round (but not killed) were unable to continue an attack.
Not looking to start another endless debate about the superiority of one caliber over another - just stating my reasons for my choice.
Very interesting info. Thank you. Being behind enemy lines I've never paid much attention to the 5.7 as I would be limited to ten round mags. But this is certainly food for thought.
The biggest thing that held me off of the 5.7 was when the price of ammo became downright crazy. It's still a bit pricey for me, but it seems to be coming down a bit.
It is pricey compared to many other calibers - Palmetto Armory State has frequent weekend deals where they sell it for $17.99 for a box of 50. Not something that I would choose to shoot thousands of rounds - but not horrible like feeding a 338 lapua or a 50 cal!!
I'll admit to not actively tracking deals on it, bc I don't own one. But I've typically seen it in the $25 a box realm. At $18 a box it gets a bit more approachable, more in line with retail pricing on 5.56
Man it looks a little overthought. I have plenty of goodies but the wife and kids are more familiar with the 870 and a Smith and Wesson 357 I have always at the ready. Simple thoughtless effective.
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Mossberg defender in .410.
The new defensive rounds, geared to the handgun crowd are excellent stoppers and quite devastating.
The advantage here is that the relatively light recoiling .410 is much easier to handle in a shorty shotgun, it is also significantly quieter.
A 2.5" shell has three 000 buckshot, each one is .36 caliber, the 3" has four.
That is a serious payload and will kill the fuck out of stuff, while being far easier to manage.
The new defensive rounds, geared to the handgun crowd are excellent stoppers and quite devastating.
The advantage here is that the relatively light recoiling .410 is much easier to handle in a shorty shotgun, it is also significantly quieter.
A 2.5" shell has three 000 buckshot, each one is .36 caliber, the 3" has four.
That is a serious payload and will kill the fuck out of stuff, while being far easier to manage.
Go to for home would be a Springfield XD 45 . Shoot it , compete a little with it and carry it . It is what I am most comfortable with .
You will default to your lowest level of training. Use whatever is second nature to you and you don't have to think about.
A shotgun gun isn't the best choice against multiple attackers but it's better than a weapon you have to think about how to use in a crisis situation.
A shotgun gun isn't the best choice against multiple attackers but it's better than a weapon you have to think about how to use in a crisis situation.
eh....i really dont think there is any reason to over think this......find a gun in an effective caliber....and that is reasonably compact.....and easy to use.
ive got a 1911..a g17...a j frame..a mossberg 500...and a wasr 10, all accessible in seconds...so which do i use for HD?......which ever one i happen to grab first.....im half way competent with all of them....
ive got a 1911..a g17...a j frame..a mossberg 500...and a wasr 10, all accessible in seconds...so which do i use for HD?......which ever one i happen to grab first.....im half way competent with all of them....
I prefer pistol with light and a an ar pistol with can close...but the only real sawed off I can think of without going through extra sbs hassle is the mossberg shockwave or gatekeeper. Going to be a handful but in really short range shoul be possible
So True!
I have a 8" 300blk AR for "home defense" which is great, if the dummy charges my bedroom. Otherwise, it is impossible to move around a 90 degree corner with it shouldered. Pistol is my choice. Plus it is far more accessible for me.
I have long held that 20ga semis (mine are an 11-87 and a Charles Daly) loaded with buck loads (20+ #4 Buck pellets) are like firing off an entire 20rd mag of .223 in one whack indoors.
I still do, but running a shorter barrel makes it more like a 20rd mag of 22Mag. Still respectable by my estimate.
Problem, is, they don't get much spread. I have fired the same load with a rifled choke tube, and the spread is far more obvious. Not much good outdoors, but will sweep an entire hallway with one shot indoors. Maybe that floats your boat, it does mine. Repeat if/as needed; may provide some lethality options, dunno, never had to find out..
Finally got to a state where they don't treat handgun owners as high potential felons. I have the Ruger American Pistol 9mm Pro, mounting a Crimson Trace green rail laser. Is the bees' knees. My wife's S&W M&P 9 Shield has the CT red laser guard. That way we don't get our lasers crossed.
Greg
I still do, but running a shorter barrel makes it more like a 20rd mag of 22Mag. Still respectable by my estimate.
Problem, is, they don't get much spread. I have fired the same load with a rifled choke tube, and the spread is far more obvious. Not much good outdoors, but will sweep an entire hallway with one shot indoors. Maybe that floats your boat, it does mine. Repeat if/as needed; may provide some lethality options, dunno, never had to find out..
Finally got to a state where they don't treat handgun owners as high potential felons. I have the Ruger American Pistol 9mm Pro, mounting a Crimson Trace green rail laser. Is the bees' knees. My wife's S&W M&P 9 Shield has the CT red laser guard. That way we don't get our lasers crossed.
Greg
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My go to is a 300 BLK AR pistol with 220 grn Subsonic loads with a light for home defense, in addition to good STANDARD capacity 9mm...shotgun is long for maneuvering in the house, and while OO buck is great up close, it also may punch through walls, bird shot doesn't spread much at inside ranges, but is NOT going to over penetrate and is very devastating to two legged predators at close range. As others have said depends on what your definition is and the threat you think you may likely face...if you're not on anyone's list and you're just worried about a random burglar in a low crime area...any pump shotgun is a good choice, as racking the action is the universal language for GO AWAY...if there are bad people who actually wish you harm...I wouldn't give away the element of surprise...as speed, surprise, and violence of action are the keys to a good ambush...I'd also have something that held more than 8 rounds. My .02 YMMV
I keep a little Winchester Defender for this with some 00 in it. As for house clearing that someone else mentioned earlier they are right, but if you practice with it you wont have any issues. Just have to learn to cut corners differently.
+1 on semi-auto shotgun over a pump (I've owned both); shotguns are also rather long; stockless shotguns absolutely suck IMO
Federal #1 Buck with the Flite Control wad is awesome if you need to go with buckshot
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I personally think a carbine or a pistol caliber carbine > shotgun. More rounds, less recoil, and I CAN CONTROL WHERE MY ROUNDS GO. Slugs overpenetrate and buckshot spreads. I don't want anything spreading in close quarters with drywall and possible family members positioned BEHIND the bad guy. I want my rounds to be ONLY where I want them to.
I will share that you NEED to try clearing your home with a long gun before deciding that is the best for you. With training and practice, it works, but a pistol is easier for most people that haven't trained using long guns. It's much harder by yourself than with a team.
Most people can't navigate a 90 degree right hand corner safely. How well can you?
I like pistols because it leaves a free hand to open doors, carry a small child, handheld light, etc. Also, from a protected position it's hard to be disarmed without getting off a few rounds into their pelvis area.
I like long guns in general because they are much easier to hit with under stress with speed and usually have more stopping power compared to pistol rounds. But more unwieldy moving through indoors.
Handguns SUCK for stopping people. At least go 15+ with a mounted light.
CZ Scorpion, pistol AR with a .300 blackout upper 9", SBR, pistol with light, semi shotgun...
there are so many options.
your current 870 is fine as long as you don't short stroke it under stress AND don't have a hunting plug
Federal #1 Buck with the Flite Control wad is awesome if you need to go with buckshot
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I personally think a carbine or a pistol caliber carbine > shotgun. More rounds, less recoil, and I CAN CONTROL WHERE MY ROUNDS GO. Slugs overpenetrate and buckshot spreads. I don't want anything spreading in close quarters with drywall and possible family members positioned BEHIND the bad guy. I want my rounds to be ONLY where I want them to.
I will share that you NEED to try clearing your home with a long gun before deciding that is the best for you. With training and practice, it works, but a pistol is easier for most people that haven't trained using long guns. It's much harder by yourself than with a team.
Most people can't navigate a 90 degree right hand corner safely. How well can you?
I like pistols because it leaves a free hand to open doors, carry a small child, handheld light, etc. Also, from a protected position it's hard to be disarmed without getting off a few rounds into their pelvis area.
I like long guns in general because they are much easier to hit with under stress with speed and usually have more stopping power compared to pistol rounds. But more unwieldy moving through indoors.
Handguns SUCK for stopping people. At least go 15+ with a mounted light.
CZ Scorpion, pistol AR with a .300 blackout upper 9", SBR, pistol with light, semi shotgun...
there are so many options.
your current 870 is fine as long as you don't short stroke it under stress AND don't have a hunting plug
Notice i didnt say fire two blasts through the screen door...for those who want to avoid having to shoot racking the slide is a very good way to make the perp know you are armed and are preparing to defend yourself...i realize that from a tactical standpoint you are giving away the element of surprise...but thats being done with the intent to try to avoid the confrontation...for those with less skills its,a viable option...me personally the last thing a perp will hear is the crack of the primer just before a 220 grain slug hits them center mass at around 1000 feet per second.
If you rack a shotgun in the dark at an unknown intruder, expect to get shot. Like mentioned above somewhere, the first sound they hear should either be a gunshot or your warning to drop their weapon.
Even better than the #1 buck would be a slug with soft lead or whatever load deforms easily.
Go with whatever you are most comfortable and proficient with... but seriously, walk through and clear your house by yourself at night. You will learn how much you need a light attached, You will learn how unwieldy a long gun can be opening doors and moving in confined spaces. You will learn which bottlenecks will affect YOU most.
It's your terrain, it's your castle. Know how to defend it.
And no, plan A, B, C being to barricade in a room is ridiculous unless you live alone. If your spouse, kids, guests are in a different part of the home when the alarm goes off... will you barricade behind a door in an upstairs master bedroom with your gun up knowing your daughter is still playing in the basement?
Crappy situation, but the more practice and drills you run, the more you'll learn applicable to YOUR home and situation.
My best friend's alarm was triggered when he wasn't home. His wife collected the kids and barricaded into their master bedroom... but found out that their electronic gun safe WOULD NOT OPEN.
When he came home, he tried it and it worked. Turns out she missed a final button that needed to be pushed. But under stress, she completely forgot to do the last step, therefore could not get to her gun.
Turns out it was the glass break detector when a kid dropped a toy on the floor. Had it been a real situation... it might not have been good.
Guns are tools. Good to choose the best one for you, but in the end practice and proficiency are worth more than the best tool with little to no actual practice.
Even better than the #1 buck would be a slug with soft lead or whatever load deforms easily.
Go with whatever you are most comfortable and proficient with... but seriously, walk through and clear your house by yourself at night. You will learn how much you need a light attached, You will learn how unwieldy a long gun can be opening doors and moving in confined spaces. You will learn which bottlenecks will affect YOU most.
It's your terrain, it's your castle. Know how to defend it.
And no, plan A, B, C being to barricade in a room is ridiculous unless you live alone. If your spouse, kids, guests are in a different part of the home when the alarm goes off... will you barricade behind a door in an upstairs master bedroom with your gun up knowing your daughter is still playing in the basement?
Crappy situation, but the more practice and drills you run, the more you'll learn applicable to YOUR home and situation.
My best friend's alarm was triggered when he wasn't home. His wife collected the kids and barricaded into their master bedroom... but found out that their electronic gun safe WOULD NOT OPEN.
When he came home, he tried it and it worked. Turns out she missed a final button that needed to be pushed. But under stress, she completely forgot to do the last step, therefore could not get to her gun.
Turns out it was the glass break detector when a kid dropped a toy on the floor. Had it been a real situation... it might not have been good.
Guns are tools. Good to choose the best one for you, but in the end practice and proficiency are worth more than the best tool with little to no actual practice.
I hear ya, I reckon (see what I did there)....just messing with you sir.
Personally, I think it's akin to Israeli carry, which is adding another unnecessary and illogical step that introduces another opportunity for a fuck up to happen when you could possibly least afford one. To each his own and hopefully no one here ever needs to use any of the tactics/weapons we're discussing but I for one will be doing it with a loaded chamber on whatever weapon I have available, if the situation arises.
Good luck uncle Joe.
I think the most overlooked component of home defense/home security is a dog . I've heard it said that a dog is the best burglar alarm money can buy . My chocolate Lab goes apeshit if anyone gets near the house . A dog also has diferent barks or aggression levels that are subtle . They range from I see and hear you to if I get holda your ass your effed . And for ballistic defense stil a 45 . I would choose to argue that a pistol can be employed and operated faster than an AR especially in close quarters .
I agree PERSONALLY about Israeli carry, but I've trained Krav Maga from IDF instructors that showed me how easily and reliably they can deploy and fire a pistol carried Condition 3.
It boils down to training and practice. You'll suck at anything you don't practice enough of. With training and skill, you can overcome any deficiency in efficiency.
Just like some trainers can't stand a pistol without a manual safety, some can't stand guns with. I prefer one, but I also have no problem with Glocks either.
I've known groups that teach moving with a carbine/pistol, or anytime you disengage from a specific target the safety goes back on.
I prefer a manual safety, and I prefer to carry chamber loaded, but like you said... to each his own. (I might start competing precision rifle comps with a .223 for example. I'm never in the top 10 anyway)
If youre racking it standing at the top of a staircase backlit I agree you may bet shot, but as you said its your castle you should know where to stand for best cover to rack the shotgun...calling out to drop a weapon is great...but a cocky perp may think you are bluffing, especially if hes with a buddy or the person calling put is a woman...a racked shotgun puts a man to a decision...a ghost call out at that point is fine...but after the shotgun has been racked...ive dealt with high, cocky, and over confident thugs...the ones who stand their ground knowing there is a shot gun in the mix... are exceedingly rare..most will be ass holes and elbows getting out of the house at that point, and if they are not then likely they mean you harm and should be treated accordingly.
If youre planning on clearing the house...a shotgun is the wrong weapon, its two long and follow up shots are too slow, id rather have a pistol with a light than a shotgun...but it depends on each persons skills and abilities, as younapsaid its a tool...can i clear a house with a shotgun, sure, will i choose one goven other options, no. For my wife, I've instructed here where to stand, and how to stand, because her business isnt gunfighting...mine on the oher hand has been...for her i want to avoid the entire situation if at all possible while placing here in the best tactical and defensible position she can be in...that means a shotgun with a pistol back up in an area that only has one avenue of approach, and that avenue comes through a fatal funnel ...but as others have said you default to your lowest level of training...my level of training is move direct to and neutralize threats...others maybe not so much
as some one else has said, a dog is actually a huge asset here...never been to a home invasion or burglary when there was a dog in the house...
Im afraid youve misunderstood what im suggesting, im not saying go looking for an intruder on an empty chamber, thats just plain stupid...what im sayings is for someone who is NOT going direct to threat to get to a posission of tactical advantage, then rack the slide on the shotgun to then cover the single avenue of approach any intruder could use to approach.
I really like the maneuverability of a pistol but I want the knock down power of a shotgun.
So there is only one choice... Taurus Judge
With some .410 defensive ammo it's basically like a howitzer. One glimpse of this bad boy and perps go running.
Plus I can hide in a closet and cock the hammer to warn off any would be intruders. Scares the crap out of the entire neighborhood.
not srs....
So there is only one choice... Taurus Judge
With some .410 defensive ammo it's basically like a howitzer. One glimpse of this bad boy and perps go running.
Plus I can hide in a closet and cock the hammer to warn off any would be intruders. Scares the crap out of the entire neighborhood.
not srs....
SBR>Carbine>Rifle>Pistol>Shotgun for HD or as a general fighting weapon. Always has been, always will be.
