Just wanted to know if anybody out there has used the Hornady 140 American Gunner bullets in 6.5 CM for hunting. This past weekend I shot an antelope with them in the left shoulder at 225 yards and it just blew up, ZERO penetration into the cavity, the antelope turned around and I shot it in the right shoulder with the same result with NO penetration at 300 yards. Finally had to shoot it a third time at 450 in the neck which did not pass through either. Anybody else used these bullets for hunting and if so what were your results? Did they just explode for you too?
- Thread starter kgoltz
- Start date
This is probably exactly why no manufacturers (other than Berger) suggests BTHP match bullets for hunting. I believe Hornady has also published a document explaining what happens with various manufacturers' BTHPs in ballistics gel that shows the fragmentation and sporadic penetration that results.
edit: found it, in the middle of this pdf.
edit: found it, in the middle of this pdf.
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Hi,
Wrong ammunition for the task IMO...finishing hammer is not meant to pound rebar into the ground
Why would you not use something like Hornady Precision Hunter 143gr ELD-X instead?
Sincerely,
Theis
Wrong ammunition for the task IMO...finishing hammer is not meant to pound rebar into the ground
Why would you not use something like Hornady Precision Hunter 143gr ELD-X instead?
Sincerely,
Theis
Your bullet didnt fail. It accurately hit the target like it was designed. They arent hunting loads. I used them to hunt deer once and never again. I didn’t experience what you did by any means but will never use them again. Mine penciled through on the deer I shot at 365 yds and blew up on anything under 200 yards. Sample of 6 and all results faired the same.
147 grain eld-m are fantastic for hunting and expand similar to a softpoint. I Killed 5 deer and 2 audads last year with them. I took soft points with me as well to be sure I wouldn't be stuck with a sub par round again. This was not the case with the eld-m
147 grain eld-m are fantastic for hunting and expand similar to a softpoint. I Killed 5 deer and 2 audads last year with them. I took soft points with me as well to be sure I wouldn't be stuck with a sub par round again. This was not the case with the eld-m
Application per the above is Varmints under 50lbs.
This American Gunner? Hmmm, a prairie dog silhouette and a target? What do they recommend using it for?
The bullet didn't fail. You did.
Se above finishing hammer comment.
Se above finishing hammer comment.
And why did you shoot it in the shoulder? Twice?
Put one in the lungs. Done.
Also, try actually researching what you're buying in the future. Easily could have grabbed the eld-x and avoided the entire situation.
Put one in the lungs. Done.
Also, try actually researching what you're buying in the future. Easily could have grabbed the eld-x and avoided the entire situation.
That poor antelope wasn’t laughing.
Match bullets and shoulder shots don’t usually mix well. Heart/lungs or CNS? Send it...
Or, he could have bought the American whitetail, which is loaded with a bullet designed for light skinned medium game, and still stayed on the cheap...
My son shot a decent Caribou bull at 185 yards with American Gunner. Double lung shot. Dead Caribou.
John
Hollow point match bullet + bone = splat
Soft point hunting bullet + bone = less splat, maybe
Hollow point match bullet + lungs = dead
Soft point hunting bullet + lungs = dead
Two problems here, first being that you used a varmint/match bullet for hunting large game. The Hornady website recommends 140gr American Gunner for target shooting and varmints under 50lbs only. The 129gr American Whitetail is the same price as American Gunner and is suitable for medium game (such as antelope). The 143gr ELD-X is recommended for medium or large game, if you were to go hunting for Elk or Moose for example.
The second problem, and what I see as the more important issue, is that you shot the antelope twice in the shoulders. If you can't shoot the vital zone of your target without trying to punch through the shoulder blade you should move closer until you can confidently hit the vitals that aren't protected by bone. Shoot lower and further back than you think if you're hitting the shoulder, and use the right bullet for the job unless you want to chance hitting a rib and not getting to the lungs.
Soft point hunting bullet + bone = less splat, maybe
Hollow point match bullet + lungs = dead
Soft point hunting bullet + lungs = dead
Two problems here, first being that you used a varmint/match bullet for hunting large game. The Hornady website recommends 140gr American Gunner for target shooting and varmints under 50lbs only. The 129gr American Whitetail is the same price as American Gunner and is suitable for medium game (such as antelope). The 143gr ELD-X is recommended for medium or large game, if you were to go hunting for Elk or Moose for example.
The second problem, and what I see as the more important issue, is that you shot the antelope twice in the shoulders. If you can't shoot the vital zone of your target without trying to punch through the shoulder blade you should move closer until you can confidently hit the vitals that aren't protected by bone. Shoot lower and further back than you think if you're hitting the shoulder, and use the right bullet for the job unless you want to chance hitting a rib and not getting to the lungs.
The bullet did not fail. You failed that antelope and made it suffer instead of killing it cleanly/quickly. Before you go hunting again I recommend you spend a few minutes of your time on the internet, which you clearly have access to, in order to do some research on bullet selection.
I guess I'll be the opposing one here to say that I would not suggest ELD-X as I have personally seen what they do on whitetails and definitely did not like it. I have used 140 BTHP, same factory load as the OP and both results were very good, at least for me.
One was a rather large whitetail, golf ball sized exit, lots of large blood pools through the thick brush leading to the dead animal. Other one was a smaller whitetail at 187 yards, bang flopped and DRT. Both of those occasions, while having good shot placement, did not hit heart.
Now, I will agree though, that sometimes we get lucky, like maybe I did. I have, however, already stocked up on 140 ELD-M as these have a proven track record of performing well for hunting game and will no longer be using BTHP.
ELDX
BTHP 1st deer
BTHP 2nd deer
OP,
I will say this, like me, be sure to make a change in bullet selection and try something else for future hunts. You already had very poor terminal results with BTHP and should probably consider SST or maybe even ELDM.
One was a rather large whitetail, golf ball sized exit, lots of large blood pools through the thick brush leading to the dead animal. Other one was a smaller whitetail at 187 yards, bang flopped and DRT. Both of those occasions, while having good shot placement, did not hit heart.
Now, I will agree though, that sometimes we get lucky, like maybe I did. I have, however, already stocked up on 140 ELD-M as these have a proven track record of performing well for hunting game and will no longer be using BTHP.
ELDX
BTHP 1st deer
BTHP 2nd deer
OP,
I will say this, like me, be sure to make a change in bullet selection and try something else for future hunts. You already had very poor terminal results with BTHP and should probably consider SST or maybe even ELDM.
I marked the front shoulder shot that I was taught as a kid. Put a bullet here of any size and the animal will drop like it was hit by lightning. Grew up shooting with a .30 carbine and never had one take a single step even with that rifle.
Why in the world would you think that's a good shot?
Lungs. They're big, protected only by very small skinny ribs, and you can't live if you can't breathe.
Cuz the blood pumping thingy is there. Just in front of the air breathing things
Because the animal falls where it stands. Dead. Shuts down the CNS and breaks them down structurally. It doesn’t run, it doesn’t move. It’s a great spot to place a bullet. I do not like shooting behind the shoulder. I wont do it.
It's not though, look at the diagram again.
The heart is lower and further back than the marked location. The marked location, however, will still drop animals dead without issue so long as you use a hunting bullet. It would shatter what is effectively the shoulder and thigh of the animal and likely puncture the front of the lungs.
It damages the spinal cord as well. This is one of the reasons they hit the dirt so quickly. I take between 6-8 deer like this every year. Never had one take a step which I like. It is still a large killzone.
There are many ethical shots including behind the shoulder. I just like my game to stay put. Lol
Where do you hunt that you're allowed 6-8 deer a year?
Managed land that is owned by a friend of the family. I can kill as much as I want as we have plenty of tags. It just depends how much meat i need for the year. I can shoot whitetail doe and spikes, axis doe, red stag doe, sika doe and bucks, audad, mouflon sheep, and pigs. My dad shoots plenty at one of his buddies ranches and does the same. We Make lots of sausage, hamburger and jerky mostly. We have a nice setup and process our own meat.
This is the first time I’ve ever seen that as a recommended shot. I’ve heard of high shoulder for DRT but this is new to me. If you put a bullet through the lungs an animal WILL DIE it may run a bit but it’ll die. That shoulder shot is questionable to me, at least a high shoulder shot hits the lungs and CNS. The shoulder blades on antelope and deer are flexible up top and thin. Your pointing at a thick meaty hard bone area. I use Bergers and lungs are what I aim for, I’d suggest the same to prevent the same situation. I bow hunt and figure a match bullet does way more damage to soft areas like the lungs than a 450 grain arrow going 270fps.
I killed my first five deer with that shot with a thirty carbine. Bang flop. My sister the same, my sone the same. I have taken dozens of animals with that shot from point blank out to 25 to 365 yards. I have literally never had one do anything but drop. I’m not guessing. Deer season is right around the corner. Take the shot and revive this thread and you will say “dang, you were right.” With any kind of power behind the bullet you will get a pass through. My creedmoor passes clean through at 365.
its not the only way by any means. It is the shot I will take every time if its available. A good lung shot will do the trick as well.
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Please stay away from the elk then.
Your drawing was crap. And aiming at the thickest bone in the area is stupid. You can get away with stupid on deer, but I've seen elk splash a bullet with their shoulder and heal just fine.
Last deer I shot in the heart went 300 yards in a death sprint. Last one I lunged went 20 yards.
The only for sure "drop in their tracks" shot is the brain.
Man you come out the gate hot. You called my drawing crap and what I do stupid. Don’t take your bad day out on me. You can disagree with anything I say, but let’s keep the insults to a minimum.
I am just sharing my personal experience that I have taking dozens and dozens of deer and hogs with that shot where the end result was 100% drop where it stands. It is real world experience which is something that is hard to argue when you don’t have the same at least with this particular shot. This is not a shoulder shot. it is the point of the front shoulder/base of the neck.
I never said anything about elk but I wouldn’t hesitate to make that shot on one by any means though. i never once said that a behind the shoulder shot was a bad one as that would be ignorant for me to say. I said it is a good ethical shot that I choose not to take as I feel there are better like the one I described. Both have the same result. Meat on the table.
I wish they would stop giving these match bullets a “hollow point” designation.
They are an “open tip” bullet. There is quite a bit of difference with an “open tip” meplat compared to a true hollow point.
That’s why the US military has used them as sniper rounds without violating the Geneva convention ban on the use of hollow pointed ammunition.
Technical parlance dictates the use of the term; “open tip.”
They ought to be known as BTOT bullets instead of BTHP.
They are an “open tip” bullet. There is quite a bit of difference with an “open tip” meplat compared to a true hollow point.
That’s why the US military has used them as sniper rounds without violating the Geneva convention ban on the use of hollow pointed ammunition.
Technical parlance dictates the use of the term; “open tip.”
They ought to be known as BTOT bullets instead of BTHP.
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Not insulting but have you dressed out a big elk? They are quite different from deer size wise and though I believe your deer were DRT, I can not advocate attempting this shot on an elk just because it works on hogs and deer. Please don’t as you may wound the animal that’ll takeoff into the next zip code and die a slow death.
I call it like I see it.
Your diagram was crap as your arrow points directly at the middle of the shoulder.
Either way, a match bullet is not designed for the job.
Yeah, but theres prairie dogs in same location as antelope......that works? Target bullets dont work on game, even yotes. The ones I've shot with bthp just ice pick.
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Double tap
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I guess you went looking for an argument?
Maybe padding post count before asking about solvent traps, or the best place to buy forced reset triggers?
Delete
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Then you should know that they are making fun of you for your long droning that no one cares about in a thread from years ago.
No one knows who you are on the internet so no one cares about your qualifications
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This is 100% True.
This is NOT true because of your unreadable shit, paragraphs man.
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Seems like a weird post after posting several necro-novels nobody will ever read.
Read up on the iPads/phone return button. It is no less taxing on nerve damaged hands than the others used 
There you go. I have removed as much of my posts as possible. Wish I could remove it all so y’all wouldn’t have to suffer. I didn’t know I was being graded on sentence structure, post count, post length, or the age of the thread I replied to. I will try to make better use of my time. Thanks, you guys have been great. I’m out of this one.
Wow this is the Conversation to be in I guess. I was just looking where I could buy more 140gr BTHP and found this gem of a thread. Lol
So personal experience, I have put down 3 Montana Mule deer and one Montana Bull 5x5 with hornady American gunners.
I think you need to know what animal your shooting and where to shoot them based off of what you are shooting them with. If I was shooting my elk with a 338 LP I would just blow both front shoulders off obviously. It’s less walking.
Now with my 6.5 to tucked it right behind the shoulder and I watched him fall less then 75 yards from where I shot him. I have never had an issue with the bullet. Worst case I shot my 175-1/2” muley twice. But it was literally one shot, reload two and he dropped in my scope.Also I don’t believe you were shooting your 30 carbine at 365yds and knocking deer down all day. Not likely BC with that round at that range wouldn’t dead stop many deer let alone 6-8 a year. But we all have out fish stores. That Muley I mentioned earlier real measure was 174 lol don’t tell.
So personal experience, I have put down 3 Montana Mule deer and one Montana Bull 5x5 with hornady American gunners.
I think you need to know what animal your shooting and where to shoot them based off of what you are shooting them with. If I was shooting my elk with a 338 LP I would just blow both front shoulders off obviously. It’s less walking.
Now with my 6.5 to tucked it right behind the shoulder and I watched him fall less then 75 yards from where I shot him. I have never had an issue with the bullet. Worst case I shot my 175-1/2” muley twice. But it was literally one shot, reload two and he dropped in my scope.Also I don’t believe you were shooting your 30 carbine at 365yds and knocking deer down all day. Not likely BC with that round at that range wouldn’t dead stop many deer let alone 6-8 a year. But we all have out fish stores. That Muley I mentioned earlier real measure was 174 lol don’t tell.
Nobody said anything about a 30 carbine at 365 yards. First post on the Hide and it already proves you can’t interpret what you read. You will fit right in.
