Rifle Scopes Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

[hoguer]

I have used a lot of different scopes, from low to high end, and i have 1 of the Horus Predators and i really do like it on my 22-250, but i wondered with all of the questions about "What is the best budget tactical scope?" and i have NEVER seen the Hawk mentioned on here. Horus has their AMAZING reticle, FFP, 30mm tube, low profile, and decent glass. At $550 i think people would be buying these things by the truck load. I will say the glass is MUCH better than Falcon or SS. What am i missing?

PS:if you look at this thing and say "it doesnt have exposed/target turrents" please stay away from the thread, as you proven you have no idea how the Horus system works and you opinion has no validity.

 

[elkkid3]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

From Horus Vision website "HORUS VISION, LLC warrants this product against defects in workmanship or materials for a period of one (1) year after the date of the original retail purchase."

 

[hoguer]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

decent point, but at $550, i dont see why people dont take a chance? its not like the blessed Vortex scopes on here with the best warranty ever, like every one keeps foaming at the mouth about. After seeing the problems with them, i wouldnt TOUCH one without a lifetime warranty. I have not heard any problems w/horus? am i missing a Horus bashing thread? i know some people call the reticle "busy" but thats just preference... thats the only thing i have hear about them...

 

[elkkid3]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

My dad has a Horus on his GAP, it is the Raptor. I think the reticle is "Busy" and doesn't save you anytime. Like you said, thats just my preference. The glass is alright, not up to par with the NF but better than the Falcon. Like you said, it's all preference. The one year factory warranty kinda kills it for me. They may be great scopes and not fail... But if something happens I like to know I am covered.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huntinaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They may be great scopes and not fail... </div></div>
But they do, and you're SOL. Buying a $500 thinking its expendable just means you have too much money.....

 

[ORD]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

The warranty sucks (might as well not be one), the scopes (NOT the reticles) are not well-made and are prone to failure, the glass is okay but nothing to write home about, and the prices aren't all that great when you consider what you are getting in the long run for your hard-earned money.

The Horus reticles themselves are an interesting concept and are worthy of consideration for anyone who prefers holdovers to dialing in their scopes...just get one in a well-made, reputable scope like a US Optics, S&B, Nightforce (soon...not avail. yet) instead of wasting money on the Horus scopes.

 

[m1k3]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

Which Vortex problem(s) are you talking about? If you are referring to the Razor with an internal thread lock problem, where a representative from the company came on this forum, described the problem exactly, admitted the problem was theres, how it happened, how it was being dealt with (free repair or replacement). Where everyone with the problem voice it on this very forum? Is that the example you are referring to?

Perhaps you could give us some examples of how Horus handled their problem(s)? Where is their representative? Where is their no questions asked warranty?

Not sure if everyone knows this but the same warranty on the Vortex Razor ($2000) scope applies to their little Crossfire scopes ($100).

From Vortex's website:

<span style="color: #3333FF">Our warranty is about you, not us. It's about taking care of you after the sale. The VIP stands for Very Important Promise to you (our customers) that we will do the following:
Repair or replace your Vortex product for any reason at NO CHARGE TO YOU. It doesn't matter how it happened, whose fault it was, or where you purchased it.
Unlimited lifetime Warranty
Fully transferable
No warranty card to fill out
No receipt needed to hang on to
If you ever have a problem, no matter the cause, we promise to take care of you.</span>

I can promise you that until that warranty fails me, I'll be a Vortex customer and will avoid 1-year warranty scopes with pleasure.

mike

 

[Lindy]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

The Horus reticle is about shooting using holdovers for speed.

However, speed is normally desirable at relatively short distances.

Using a standard mil reticle with 5 mil marks below the main crosshairs, one can shoot a .308 with a standard 175SMK load out to beyond 600 yards from a 100 yard zero without touching the elevation dial.

For those who cannot figure out how to do that, especially those whose scopes dial in MOA or IPHY, this may be useful reading: Calculating Holdovers and Holdunders.

The age-old principle of <span style="font-style: italic">caveat emptor</span> applies in spades to those who would do business with HorusVision.

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

And the Hawk lacks adjustable parallax and it's turrets really aren't designed to be dialed except to establish zero. I'm not saying there aren't applications for a holdover-only, fixed parallax scope but it certainly isn't general purpose long-range shooting. Particularly since many of the people looking for a budget long range scope are relatively new to the sport.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

I've looked through a Horus Hawk at the rifle range. To my eyes, the Hawk on the other guy's rifle had quite alot of CA. Was really excited to see one till I looked through it.

 

[M.D.K.]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

I have to agree with you on the vortex, i myself don't own one of there high end razors, but from the looks of it, it sounds amazing. But i have a problem buying a product when the company puts there name on low end products. a local store sold the vortex line for a while and without a doubt there warranty program is second to none, if your a dealer and want to see a product before buying it, they would ship it to the store for free so you could look at it.. BUT, the store owner sold a bunch of the vortex low and medium scopes (vipers and crossfires) and slowly they kept coming back with issues. they were replaced quickly, but the idea of having a product that NEEDS the warranty isn't something i liked. the store stopped carrying the scopes because of the issues and refunds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffhogue</div><div class="ubbcode-body">decent point, but at $550, i dont see why people dont take a chance? its not like the blessed Vortex scopes on here with the best warranty ever, like every one keeps foaming at the mouth about. After seeing the problems with them, i wouldnt TOUCH one without a lifetime warranty. I have not heard any problems w/horus? am i missing a Horus bashing thread? i know some people call the reticle "busy" but thats just preference... thats the only thing i have hear about them... </div></div>

 

[Graham]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

I use external adjustments with my Horus reticle. But I wouldn't buy a Horus scope.

 

[steve123]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffhogue</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have used a lot of different scopes, from low to high end, and i have 1 of the Horus Predators and i really do like it on my 22-250, but i wondered with all of the questions about "What is the best budget tactical scope?" and i have NEVER seen the Hawk mentioned on here. Horus has their AMAZING reticle, FFP, 30mm tube, low profile, and decent glass. At $550 i think people would be buying these things by the truck load. I will say the glass is MUCH better than Falcon or SS. What am i missing?

PS:if you look at this thing and say "it doesnt have exposed/target turrents" please stay away from the thread, as you proven you have no idea how the Horus system works and you opinion has no validity. </div></div>


I am a fan of the Horus reticles because I like holdovers primarily but sometimes I want to dial for a specific distance and use the main crosshair.So I require a scope that tracks correctly and of course has target turrets.Only one of the Horus brand scopes I've owned tracked correctly.

Tactical scopes...I've been in tactical matches that require shot engagement well past 600Y.So for me the Hawk would not be considered.I also prefer side focus.

I do have a Horus Predator like you.I like it but if it ever breaks I'm gonna be pissed because where am I going to get it fixed?!


There's a catch22 dilemma.

You've got the Horus brand scopes which are medium quality at best.Priced from approx $500 to $1500.Since you only have a 1 year warranty,your screwed if the scope brakes after that.Maybe I'm a tightwad but the thought of the possibly of having an expensive paper weight sitting around in a couple years doesn't thrill me too much.

Then you've got the other side of the catch 22.If you want a scope with a Horus reticle in it and a "good warranty" then you better plan on spending close to $3000.That's about four Horus Predators that could have been purchased.

In the future as $ allows I hope to sell all my Horus brand scopes and replace them with High end scopes with Horus mil reticles in them.

If Vortex used Horus reticles and could sell them for maybe $200??? more than their standard price then you'd really have something exceptional.

Steve

 

[elkkid3]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Using a standard mil reticle with 5 mil marks below the main crosshairs, one can shoot a .308 with a standard 175SMK load out to beyond 600 yards from a 100 yard zero without touching the elevation dial.
</div></div>

I haven't even though about getting holdovers for my Nightforce yet. This post reminded me to. It has the NP-R2 Reticle. 175gr SMK being pushed with 43.3gr RE-15 it takes me 22MOA to reach 800 yards (Little up angle). The reticle has 20MOA holdover in it. How much more room in the reticle do you need for holdovers? What are the odds past 800 yards you can just lay down and start shooting? Without reading the wind, conditions etc.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reticle has 20MOA holdover in it. How much more room in the reticle do you need for holdovers?</div></div>

That depends on how far you want to shoot, and where you want to zero. You can also hold both under and over, which extends the maximum and minimum range - see the link.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are the odds past 800 yards you can just lay down and start shooting? Without reading the wind, conditions etc.</div></div>

Zero. But you're going to have to do that whether you're holding or dialing.

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

i've had a horus hawk for almost a year now... hasn't broken or hasn't lost zero... even after moving it around in a carry bag. I wouldn't try and blow it up (i.e. the vortex razor testing video... which i enjoyed watching). I shoot it on my POF at 100 yds and it's dead on for me. The glass is ok - ok enough to see a praire dog at 300 yds and hit it. It's nice out to about 600 yds - after that i think the lack of parallax adj. and i can't seem to have both the reticle and what i'm shooting at in focus either. btw, the parallax is fixed at 100 yds.

There is a little bit of the fish eye in certain light - i saw it when i was out in CO shooting prairie dogs on a bright sunny day. But all in all - the reticle works good for fast adjustments... The way it's advertised - you shoot and then where the bullet hole is, you're supposed to re-adjust your scope to put the x-hairs on it. However, if your on a bipod, this is really difficult if your rifle jumps, unless your target shooting - then you put the x-hairs back to the middle where you were aiming - then adjust.

I'm going to put it on my sig556 and put a viper pst on my POF.

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

Wanted to update incase anyone cares - i recently got a leupold mark 4 lrt 4.5-14 x 50 --- man, what a difference in the sight picture. At max mag of the hawk (12x) vs the leupold at 12x - the leupold is still crystal clear... granted it has a side focus... but still i was pointing at an object 250yds away - the horus was a little dimmer and not as sharp.

 

[CTone03]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

Mine's been pretty decent, though I don't like the 1 yr warranty either. I do like the Horus reticle though.

See my through the reticle pics of the Hawk at the bottom of this post - http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1895969#Post1895969

I'll be pissed if/when the scope breaks, but until then I'm not gonna worry about it. Like others have mentioned, I love the reticle but can't spend $3k on another scope.

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

yep - that's what mine looks like too - i do like the reticle - i'm temporarily putting on my sig556

and putting my new falcon menace, which i get today, on my POF. My leupold is on my HK SR9"T" and still am trying to figure out what to put on my M1A.

 

[CTone03]

Re: Horus Vision Hawk... Why dont i ever see them?

The only scope that I have seen in the same vicinity as the Hawk with a similar reticle at a similar price is the Zeiss Conquests with the 600/800/1000 BDC reticles. They look nice. Hell, anything looks nice on a M1A!