How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

[Phil3]

I would like to know just how accurate an AR15 can be, at short ranges, such as 100 and 200 yards, using a bag or bi-pod. Assume the rifle is built using high quality parts best suited for this kind of shooting and either Lapua or hand loaded ammo optimized for the gun. Repeatable 1 MOA, 1/2 MOA, 1/4 MOA...?

- Phil

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

its all about triggers and barrels....and good ammo.....i shoot 55grn ball and can keep 'em sub moa at 100yd

 

[cyberpuppy42]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

I've gotten sub-1/4MOA 5-round groups (best one was .12-ish) with my factory OlyArms PCR-1 using handloads and VLD 80-grain bullets inside a controlled environment.

 

[Silent]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

The gun itself should hold 1/2 at the ranges you are discussing with no problem and possibly better with top of the line parts / fitting / developing a load your rifle likes... as for if you can hold the 1/2 or better is up to you tho in the end

 

[ORD]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

It isn't just about the quality of the components used to build the rifle or the ammo used in the rifle...the shooter's skill factors in as well for getting the most accuracy out of it.

All things being equal in terms of the quality of the rifle build and the shooter...sub-1/2 MOA would be reasonable on a repeatable basis.

 

[CavalrySoldier3ACR]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

I had a Fulton Armory upper on a Bush Master lower that consistently shot .5 or better. Make sure the upper and lower are matched closely. You do not want any play between the two. You can purchase a very inexpensive device to take the slack out of the two parts. The rest is up to you and your ammo.

 

[SCOTTx88]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Here's what my Colt does.

 

[Phil3]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

At 100 yards, or...? I am hoping to achieve the same accuracy level with my rifle. The gun should be able to do it...I hope I can.

- Phil

 

[Sig685]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Little 3 shot groups are meaningless. All it proves is that at some point, some time in the past (3 years ago?), one was able to put 3 shots together. Big deal.

I think the overall consistency of the system is a better indicator of accuracy. I offer myself as an example as I use an AR-15 in F-class competition. I have reached Master level and I am one more good match away from High Master at MR. This means that I am able to keep over 97% of my shots (and closer to 98.5%) inside one MOA at 300 to 600 yards, in the open.

So, at 100 yards, it is quite easy to keep a 20 round group under one inch, and most if not all under 1/2 inch groups. The AR-15 is designed to be fired a lot, go for high number groups.

BTW, the fit between upper and lower receivers is irrelevant to accuracy.

 

[Joeyhotfizzle]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Wow a lot of good shooters here. .5 and .25 MOA? Wow...

 

[el gordo2]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Shooting a stock factory Sabre Defence I can pretty easily shoot under 1 MOA out to 300 yards as that is as far as I have taken it so far. The last five 10 shot groups I fired at 100 yards averaged .600".

This was the smallest that day, .56"

 

[ker2222]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: el gordo2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting a stock factory Sabre Defence I can pretty easily shoot under 1 MOA out to 300 yards as that is as far as I have taken it so far. The last five 10 shot groups I fired at 100 yards averaged .600".

This was the smallest that day, .56"

</div></div>



+1 for nice shooting and a nice rifle as I too am a fan of Sabre Defense. Not sure I would call that rig "stock" though

 

[Cigarcop]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

I'm new to the site and having some trouble getting the pics to just show up without the linky so bear w/me!! If someone can bring them please do.

I've got a DPMS MINI SASS that shoots pretty good with one of my loads.

 

[Phil3]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Little 3 shot groups are meaningless. All it proves is that at some point, some time in the past (3 years ago?), one was able to put 3 shots together. Big deal.

I think the overall consistency of the system is a better indicator of accuracy.</div></div>

This is why I said in my original post the word "repeatable".

- Phil

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Little 3 shot groups are meaningless. All it proves is that at some point, some time in the past (3 years ago?), one was able to put 3 shots together. Big deal.

I think the overall consistency of the system is a better indicator of accuracy. I offer myself as an example as I use an AR-15 in F-class competition. I have reached Master level and I am one more good match away from High Master at MR. This means that I am able to keep over 97% of my shots (and closer to 98.5%) inside one MOA at 300 to 600 yards, in the open.

So, at 100 yards, it is quite easy to keep a 20 round group under one inch, and most if not all under 1/2 inch groups. The AR-15 is designed to be fired a lot, go for high number groups.

BTW, the fit between upper and lower receivers is irrelevant to accuracy.</div></div>

Sig685,

I disagree that three shot groups mean nothing. I think they show the rifle's potential. I use them for load workups and just to see if the rifle is accurate enough to continue shooting at that point or if we need to go do something.

I totally agree that the 'true' accuracy of a rifle is how well it shoots high group counts and aggregates of groups in the hands of a qualified shooter. If you get flyers with every bullet type that don't fly in other rifles then you don't have an accurate rifle. Even when 4 of 5 stay in a 1/2" group. Also, while shooter and rifle are a system together the rifle itself is accurate and needs to be found so. Just like group aggregates if one shooter keeps flying off then there's your problem. The nut behind the trigger, not the trigger.

Also, a tight fit between upper and lower, while not improperly torqueing either, is essential to the best groups you can get. Just like a barrel not floated correctly or a wood stock not glass bedded, it will affect accuracy. Those items may only mean .5 MOA less accuracy, but if trying to squeeze out all the accuracy you can from an AR platform you need to have a firm fit between upper and lower.

Phil3,

Bottom line is: With a good AR platform you can shoot about every bit as good as a bolt rifle. One advanage an AR has is you can continue shooting with no interruption of your eye behind the scope. Parallax is usually dialed out when shooting long range but it's really hard to get perfect. With a bolt rifle sometimes the eye interruption causes you to shoot slightly off each time.

 

[Rafael]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

I agree that 3-shot groups are pretty much worthless.

I don't evaluate load workups with only 3 shots. Too much potential for my error tossing out an otherwise good load.
About the only use I have for a 3-shot group is to check my zero.

 

[Pusher591]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Does everyone have a nice pool on here except me?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: el gordo2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting a stock factory Sabre Defence I can pretty easily shoot under 1 MOA out to 300 yards as that is as far as I have taken it so far. The last five 10 shot groups I fired at 100 yards averaged .600".

This was the smallest that day, .56"

</div></div>

 

[One_Feather]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Does everyone have a nice pool on here except me?

Didn't you get the memo about the pool?

 

[Graham]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

A group to check zero: Mexican match with JLK 80's that aren't supposed to shoot well at 100:

If you shoot flat-based 52gr bullets an AR should shoot bugholes at 100.

 

[Rafael]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

LOL

Looks pretty damn good though!

 

[Phil3]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A group to check zero: Mexican match with JLK 80's that aren't supposed to shoot well at 100:

If you shoot flat-based 52gr bullets an AR should shoot bugholes at 100. </div></div>

I am using a barrel with a chamber and twist rate optimized for lighter flat based bullets just for that reason, since my range is just 100 and 200 yards. When I occasionally venture out to the longer gun range (100 miles away), I will use a 6mmAR, 6.5 Grendel, or maybe an AR-10.

- Phil

 

[el gordo2]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does everyone have a nice pool on here except me?

</div></div>

It's gets betterer after dark, the plasma tv can be seen betterer.

 

[SCOTTx88]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Haven't really shot that gun alot and those were the targets I had pics of,that gun will do that all day long. No i'm not a Master.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that 3-shot groups are pretty much worthless.

I don't evaluate load workups with only 3 shots. Too much potential for my error tossing out an otherwise good load.
About the only use I have for a 3-shot group is to check my zero.</div></div>

That right there shows that you hold some value for them. I'm not saying shooting three shot groups is the end all. Just that in other minor ways they give valuable feedback.

edit:

Nice pool Gordo

 

[Rafael]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that 3-shot groups are pretty much worthless.

I don't evaluate load workups with only 3 shots. Too much potential for my error tossing out an otherwise good load.
About the only use I have for a 3-shot group is to check my zero.</div></div>

That right there shows that you hold some value for them. I'm not saying shooting three shot groups is the end all. Just that in other minor ways they give valuable feedback.

edit:

Nice pool Gordo </div></div>

Yes, sir, but....
When I have a good load I can feel confident that 2 out of 3 where I want them can prove my zero has not been shifted by a bump or a tear-down.
A 3-shot shows me little or nothing about how a load compares to another load.

I can throw a single shot and make a good load shoot worse than a bad load. Odds are better that four or five out of five will allow a more realistic comparison of loads. 10 would be even better.

 

[Phylodog]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Why not just shoot five? For those who feel that three rounds are sufficient, is there a reason that five shots wouldn't be better?

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Rafael,

I'll give you an example of what I mean. I recently started working with Re-17 in earnest in both the .243 and my 6mm Rem. Both rifle's will typically hold better than MOA with the bullets I chose to use. Now, through a workup ladder I find I'm getting the accuracy I expected, and better velocity. As the load increments increase I notice the velocity hits a point and stops. What I notice when it stops is the velocities get more erratic (extreme spread). But still average about the same. Accuracy starts to fall apart. Groups go to 1.5-2 MOA. duplicate the same ladder and get the same results. Now, granted the ladder is a "group" that has several 2-3 shot groups that make it up. But the information each provides and reaffirms is what I learn from it. Three shot groups as part of an overall test tells me what's viable and what's not. From then I center around the better part of the test to finalize better loads.

FWIW though, I have enough confidence in my reloading and shooting ability to know when a load isn't going to work when I shoot it in a three shot test group. I can't see blowing off ten rounds when the first three didn't even go where you wanted them. It starts with having a rifle of well known accuracy, and bullets of the same quality. I can then work from that to see if the powder/primer combo is going to work out.

 

[Grand]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Not to Hi-Jack the thread, but what is acceptable accuracy from a 16" chrome-line barrel? Floated or Fixed?

 

[PandaBearBG]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

el gordo2 - your rifle looks like it's in a porn. Sexy rifle, hot tubes, mood lighting, bar, plasma's, you probably keep your ammo in coconuts with little umbrellas! J/K nice rifle though!

Agreed with the rest, a good barrel, good shooting discipline, the best load that works best for you and your rifle will keep them sub MOA at 100

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Grand,

Sorry, some of us got sidetracked. What you asked isn't hijacking the thread. It's exactly what the original poster asked.

So, I believe the standard for the original M16 rifle with open sights was either 3 or 4 MOA. I don't know if the government standard has tightened. I do know the most any quality AR15 rifle off the shelf should easily deliver 2 MOA. Again, that's with open sights. With a scope most any AR 15 rifle can deliver MOA @100 yds and as good as 2 MOA @ 600. yds.

However, and this is probably huge, a lot of AR15 aftermarket and even original, equipment is being produced right now that will give you along the lines of 1/4 MOA @ 100 and as good as 1/2 MOA @ 600 yds. The developments in the rifle have made it extremely accurate. Certainly very competitive with accurized bolt guns. That help?

 

[AK10mm]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

I have an AR with a custom built 16" SS 6X45 BBL,I have gotten consistent .60 groups @ 100 yds with 65 GR V-Max bullets and a quality 4X scope,problem is,my most accurate loads are only 2450 FPS (8 shot average) with Varget,my Hunting loads with H335 open up to an average 1.25 MOA at 2950 FPS,these are 5 shot groups.

 

[Sig685]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Grand,

Sorry, some of us got sidetracked. What you asked isn't hijacking the thread. It's exactly what the original poster asked. (snip)</div></div>

I don't agree, let me quote from the OP: "I would like to know just how accurate an AR15 can be, at short ranges, such as 100 and 200 yards, using a bag or bi-pod. Assume the rifle is built using high quality parts best suited for this kind of shooting and either Lapua or hand loaded ammo optimized for the gun. Repeatable 1 MOA, 1/2 MOA, 1/4 MOA...? "

The OP asks specifically about high quality parts "best suited for this kind of shooting." Milspec is not "high quality part for this kind of shooting." I believe you are correct when you talk about 4 MOA is the accepted norm and that's of course, using the military ammo.

The first thing you change is the barrel and at that time you put in a free float tube, then you get rid of the stock trigger. These three basic steps will make the rifle a lot more accurate. The next step is to discontinue the use of M193 or M855 ammo and use high quality ammo. With this you should be able to make the rifle into a 1MOA rifle. Add decent optics or replace the sight with a match sight and you're good to go.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Grand,

Sorry, some of us got sidetracked. What you asked isn't hijacking the thread. It's exactly what the original poster asked. (snip)</div></div>

I don't agree, let me quote from the OP: "I would like to know just how accurate an AR15 can be, at short ranges, such as 100 and 200 yards, using a bag or bi-pod. Assume the rifle is built using high quality parts best suited for this kind of shooting and either Lapua or hand loaded ammo optimized for the gun. Repeatable 1 MOA, 1/2 MOA, 1/4 MOA...? "

The OP asks specifically about high quality parts "best suited for this kind of shooting." Milspec is not "high quality part for this kind of shooting." I believe you are correct when you talk about 4 MOA is the accepted norm and that's of course, using the military ammo.

<span style="font-weight: bold">The first thing you change is the barrel and at that time you put in a free float tube, then you get rid of the stock trigger. These three basic steps will make the rifle a lot more accurate. The next step is to discontinue the use of M193 or M855 ammo and use high quality ammo. With this you should be able to make the rifle into a 1MOA rifle. Add decent optics or replace the sight with a match sight and you're good to go.</span></div></div>

Yes, that's what you want an AR to shoot like. My point to grand was we were talking about how many shots constituted a good 'group'. The definition of a group, which is quite often used in shooting, is two or more.

FWIW, I will especially agree with your last paragraph on how to make a rifle more accurate. I will add though there are other things to do that each make a difference. Firm fit between upper and lower. Add accuwedge if necessary. Adjustable buttstock and handgrip. Shakes you can't "feel" caused by being uncomfortable when shooting. When it fits like a glove it takes those tiny little shakes out of your muscles. For the really extreme, handloaded ammo matched to the rifle. Use of long range .224 cal bullets (new barrel should accomodate them). That cuts down on windage at longer ranges. Barrel weights to take out vibration during shot. That helps stabilize bullets better. Anything you can see to do has been done to an AR and they are almost at the point of being competitive w/bolt guns at the 100 yd. benchrest line. If any 'conditions' exist the bolt gun doesn't really hold much advantage. It's up to the shooter alone to beat that.

My point is you can go a long way to make these extremely accurate. As accurate as most anybody will ever need. That is why the rifle is so popular in so many competitions.

 

[Afghanvet09]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Somebody on earlier thread mentioned how accurate OLY ARMS AR15's are. The thing you have to remember with the OLY ARMS is the chamber is mininum SAAMI specs. This means not safe to shoot 5.56mm. I liked the accuracy of those rifle cut barrels by OLY ARMS, (most barrels used are button by the big AR companies) but the detracting feature was the chamber. Can't really safely shoot the military ammo (ss109, m855) due to higher chamber pressures and damage to throat. I don't like to be limited, so Wylde chamber (can shoot both) is a good compromise. Also most rack grade chrome moly lined barrel AR's are 2 MOA guns; I have seen Stainless Steel Match FF Barrel AR's that could print some 1/2 MOA or better groups, but have yet to own one that could do this consistantly, but have had plenty of bolt guns that could.

 

[Chris F]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

How accurate can an AR be? In the lore of the AR, there's a story about my friend Bill Wylde who shot an AR in a Benchrest match and did well enough to scare the BR folk that they up and changed the rules to ban AR's from their matches.

John Feamster shot an official 200yd "Screamer" group in registered BR competition. (0.231" @ 200yds).

John Holliger regularly builds AR's that are sub 1/2 MOA, and his are not purpose built for Bench Rest.

Statistically speaking, 3 shot groups do not give you as reliable an indication of a rifles accuracy as do 5 shot groups or 10 shot groups. The more groups you shoot, the closer you get to the rifles true accuracy (long run average).

Related but somewhat different, average group size in a long run average will be larger with more shots.
Here's a graphic from one of my books;

Figure 1 shows the range of avg group sizes you would expect shooting different numbers of 5 shot groups . If you did a similar graph for 3 shot groups, you'd have a distribution with more dispersion (wider curve), meaning your group sizes would be spread out more across the map.

Figure 3 says that if you shot 3 shot groups, your 5 shot groups would probably be 1.23 times bigger in the long run and 1.53 times bigger for a 10 shot group. The more groups you shoot, the more true these statistics become.

 

[Afghanvet09]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

That's a great illustration, and excellent post.

 

[Lindy]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

One of the things which has never been established to my knowledge is whether muzzle velocity is actually normally distributed. If it's not, then the assumptions made on that basis are invalid.

 

[Chris F]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One of the things which has never been established to my knowledge is whether muzzle velocity is actually normally distributed. If it's not, then the assumptions made on that basis are invalid.</div></div>

Lindy,
I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying that some are saying that there is a component to accuracy that follows consistency of muzzle velocity?...such as vertical dispersion at the longer ranges?

If yes, I believe that yes, a case can be made for muzzle velocity to follow normal distribution as well. There's not many things in nature that don't follow a normal distribution. If you shoot enough shots you'll see that bell shaped curve. You can work to reduce variation of MV, but it should still vary around a mean. It will just be a tighter distribution.

I think what is harder to establish is the effect of MV on groups at short ranges (100 and 200 yds) such as what the OP had asked about. Either the effect is too small to measure consistently, or it is subject to too much noise and is overshadowed by greater sources of error like bullet quality, shooter error, scope error etc. At long range, no question it does (unless we get into confounders like Positive Compensation...barrel whip compensating for velocity variations).

ETA: I just reread through Sandwarriors post about his ladder testing and realized that's what you might be referring to with velocity being normally distributed. If that's it, I would say yes, the velocities within that same powder charge would still be normally distributed. But if you're plotting out a incrementally increasing powder charge versus velocity as in a ladder or Audette test, that would not be covered by a normal distribution.

Apologies if I got it ALL wrong on understanding your statement.

 

[Chris F]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

MedCpt,
You bring up a great point. Folks will shoot a 1/4" group and say they have a 1/4" rifle. Then they'll shot an group at 1-1/4" and say it was shooter error, not the rifle's fault etc, and continue to call it a 1/4" rifle.

The truth is, both groups are probably in it's range of possible group sizes and the true grouping potential (long run average) lay somewhere between the two figures. The shooter just shot groups from the left and right tails of the distribution curve.

The more groups you shoot and average out, the better idea you have of the rifles true capability.

 

[Double-edged]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

The Bushmaster Varminter that I had shot sub-dime-sized groups all day long without resorting to handloads or commercial match ammo. Three-shot groups meaningless? When you shoot them every time they're certainly not. The only caveat to it was that it would shoot three or four rounds into the same enlarged hole and then would start to walk off unless allowed to cool

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chris F</div><div class="ubbcode-body">MedCpt,
You bring up a great point. Folks will shoot a 1/4" group and say they have a 1/4" rifle. Then they'll shot an group at 1-1/4" and say it was shooter error, not the rifle's fault etc, and continue to call it a 1/4" rifle.

The truth is, both groups are probably in it's range of possible group sizes and the true grouping potential (long run average) lay somewhere between the two figures. The shooter just shot groups from the left and right tails of the distribution curve.

The more groups you shoot and average out, the better idea you have of the rifles true capability.</div></div>

Are you saying we CAN blame the rifle now for bad groups?

I look at what you said there and I think of how I describe it. Good groups are the rifle. Bad groups I did something wrong. I need to find out what. Because in the past I've put together great groups with this rifle. Even though the rifle may be capable of 1/4 MOA accuracy, it's my fault for not finding the factor that made it not shoot up to that potential.

I will agree that A three shot group does not tell what the rifle can really do. Many series of three shot groups does tell what the rifles general accuracy is. On the other hand, in many competitions you need to fire ten or twenty shots. Three shot groups are meaningless then because they never stress the barrel the way it will be tested in a twenty shot string.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harold Mayo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Bushmaster Varminter that I had shot sub-dime-sized groups all day long without resorting to handloads or commercial match ammo. Three-shot groups meaningless? When you shoot them every time they're certainly not. The only caveat to it was that it would shoot three or four rounds into the same enlarged hole and then would start to walk off unless allowed to cool </div></div>

I think that's the point Sig685 and Rafael were making in that if the rifle barrel heats up and holds MOA, that's it's accuracy. If the rounds start to 'walk' in one way or another, that is the true accuracy of the rifle. I quantify what you're saying because we don't always shoot twenty shot shot-groups. If I was walking around my dads farm shooting jackrabbits then I would never expect to shoot more than 10 shots in an hour. With a cool barrel my rounds aren't going to walk and I can expect DCB accuracy of what three shot groups normally give me.

 

[Double-edged]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Nah, that's not what was being said. The implication was that the poster above happened to shoot a good group or two and that was what was posted...not that the rifle and shooter perform that way all the time.

An answer to the original poster? An AR can be amazingly accurate at 100 to 200 yards.

 

[ARCOREY]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Lots of good AR's on the market now a days. Most varmint or HBAR profiles being more accurate than the average shooter. Good optics, triggers, and barrels are key to getting the most out of them, the rest is preference, IMO. Most will shoot one hole groups in the right hands.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

How important does everyone consider squaring the face of the upper receiver prior to installing that new primo tube?

I have read about squaring the upper and it makes sense but I am looking for input.


TIA

Good luck

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How important does everyone consider squaring the face of the upper receiver prior to installing that new primo tube?

I have read about squaring the upper and it makes sense but I am looking for input.


TIA

Good luck</div></div>

True up everything you can in the bolt/action before continuing on to the barrel. A square fit between bolt/lugs transfers the square fit between the bolt face/case head and helps with accuracy.

 

[Phil3]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How important does everyone consider squaring the face of the upper receiver prior to installing that new primo tube?

I have read about squaring the upper and it makes sense but I am looking for input.


TIA

Good luck </div></div>

A well regarded AR15 builder told me he does square the receiver barrel faces. I was happy to hear that he said SunDevil billet upper receivers are better than most in this regard, as they come from the factory. I bought a tool that squares the face, but did not use it to remove any material. I could not even get a .001" feeler gauge between the face of the receiver and the tool, or a flat piece of granite. I tried looking for light leaks with a light source behind it, and nothing. I have decided not to square it up based on these results and the comments of the rifle builder. Besides removing material off the receiver, however slight, may introduce some other problems, so if it doesn't need it, I am leaving it alone.

- Phil

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Buddy of mine has a 6.5 creed made by DPMS.

If he single feeds, it will shoot sub half MOA. Pisses me off when it out shoots my bolt bolt gun with me behind it.

Using ammo that feeds in it is a different story. And I don't see any point in single feeding an AR...

 

[HOGGHEAD]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

I have a Rock River Varminter. It is strictly a varmint hunting rifle. It sees no use for anything but that.

This has been a wild reading post with a lot of opinions. However I think the basic question was how accurate can an AR15 be??

In my opinion they can be "scary accurate". Mine sure is. Below is a 3 shot group with my RR at 300 yards in a slight crosswind(my best guess would be 5 mph). And this rifle will consistentyly shoot these groups if I do my part(HA HA). I am not nearly as good of a shoter as a lot of you guys(no doubt). I am just a hunter.

When I bought this RR a few years back I found some Black Hills red box 50 grain V-Max ammo on sale. I bought 3 cases to shoot up for the brass. The problem is I shoot these type groups with the factory ammo. And I am sure this is good as I can reload ammo. So I only hunt with the ammo-so it will last me a while.

I realize most guys shoot 5-shot groups. However I shoot 3-shot groups. A 3-shot group is good enough for me. Tom.

 

[Downzero]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

Most ARs will shoot 1 MOA with decent (not even great, just decent) ammo. Some shoot better than that.

Upper to lower fit has nothing to do with the accuracy of an AR; the sights and barrel are on the upper, the lower is simply along for the ride.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: How Accurate Can an AR15 Be?

3 shot groups are a complete waste of everyone's time and don't belong on this site...

We're committed to holding ourselves to a higher standard so please refrain from posting your piddly 3 shot group, leave it on your refrigerator and leave it off this site.

That is all...