How bad is an off-centered throat?

[Temp9]

I just bought my first match grade barrel. Of course, the first thing I did when I got it was to look how purdy the hand lapped rifling was. Then I noticed that the throat looked a bit crooked. On one side, it shows a ridge in front of the rifling. Directly opposite shows a smooth transition from the throat into the rifling. Unfortunately, I don't have any Cerrosafe handy, or I would make a chamber cast.

So my question is: How badly does an off centered throat affect accuracy? The barrel is .223 Wylde chambered for an AR. I'll be shooting mostly handloads (55gr Nosler Varmageddon and 77gr Nosler Custom Competition). I've emailed the company already for their opinion, but probably won't get a response until next after Memorial Day.

 

[ohnomrbillk]

Re: How bad is an off-centered throat?

I'm neurotic when I chamber a barrel so this doesn't happen.

That said, I've seen lots of rifles with less than perfect chambers that shoot very well.

I know of one in particular with the worst chamber and throat I have ever viewed, and it shoots so good I would be accused of lying if I described the performance.

It certainly is less than desirable, and the textbook answer is that it affects accuracy. Often it does, but not always.

Does the company offer a guarantee on performance? If so, and they tell you to shoot it first, don't be discouraged. Try it out, and see how it does. Be sure to check your fired cases to see if you have any oddities after the fire form.

I shoot the nosler 77gr bullets you mentioned with the "Navy Seal" load. It is a great place to start. PM me if you can't find it.

Keep us posted on your endevour. Best of luck.

 

[Temp9]

Re: How bad is an off-centered throat?

Thanks for the input. That's extremely reassuring!

The company offers a warranty on manufacture defects up to 30 days. They also explicitly state a satisfaction guarantee and accuracy guarantee on most of their lower end barrels, but don't mention anything on this particular barrel. I'm sure they would allow me the same policy, though. They have fantastic customer service.

Am I being foolish by not saying the company? Many of you could probably guess it, but I feel like little things like this are how rumors are started. I would rather resolve this through their CS first.

I'll definitely be looking into that load more. Thanks for the tip!

If anyone else has any experiences with this, I'm all ears (eyes?). Wouldn't this be as bad as consistently poor concentricity on the ammunition?

 

[bustin]

Re: How bad is an off-centered throat?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just bought my first match grade barrel. Of course, the first thing I did when I got it was to look how purdy the hand lapped rifling was. Then I noticed that the throat looked a bit crooked. On one side, it shows a ridge in front of the rifling. Directly opposite shows a smooth transition from the throat into the rifling. Unfortunately, I don't have any Cerrosafe handy, or I would make a chamber cast.

So my question is: How badly does an off centered throat affect accuracy? The barrel is .223 Wylde chambered for an AR. I'll be shooting mostly handloads (55gr Nosler Varmageddon and 77gr Nosler Custom Competition). I've emailed the company already for their opinion, but probably won't get a response until next after Memorial Day. </div></div>
If it's a stainless 8 twist Wylde chambered barrel they are known for having that problem because the company that actually makes the barrels for that 3 letter company uses a chambering machine built to chamber barrels during WWII. It's a verticle fixture much like a huge drill press, barrel stationary, reamer spins where most hold the reamer stationary and the barrel spins. Some of those barrels shoot fine even with a throat that's out others wont shoot crap the only way to really know is to shoot it.
Most production barrels are not perfect, if the barrel is a true custom $400 plus for the barrel alone I would not accept it.

 

[BCP]

Re: How bad is an off-centered throat?

Assuming it's safe to shoot none of us can tell you how accurate it may or may not be.

I have bought expensive barrels in the past that didn't shoot for shit and I have bought cheap barrels from no-name companies that shoot very well.

You will have to try it to find out.

For loads I would say 24.3gr varget + 77 @ 2.25 and 24.5 or 26 varget + 55 @ 2.2. Those loads have been good to great in every 223 I've had.

 

[Temp9]

Re: How bad is an off-centered throat?

Thanks, guys. I guess I'll just shoot the thing and make my decision then. When I spend big bucks for something, I always seem to have these kind of problems. Maybe I just set my expectations too high. I'll update this thread when I get a response from the company and when I shoot it.

Bustin, you are correct, this is a production barrel from a match blank. That machine would explain the problem. I thought all chambers were reamed using pilots, so I was confused how this would've happened.

BCP, my favorite load for my previous non-match barrel was 24.2gr Varget with 77gr NCC. I haven't tried the 55's with Varget yet. I'll have to give that a shot next week. Thanks!

 

[Temp9]

Re: How bad is an off-centered throat?

Not sure if this is helpful or interesting to anyone, but I thought I'd give you guys an update:

I've had the barrel out to the range a few times now. The initial outing using old handloads (along with the proper "work up" loads) were promising, but not amazing. Black Hills Match shot close to 1 MOA. My 77gr loads shot .75-1MOA, and my 55gr loads shot .7-.9MOA. These were all 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

When I got back home, I reloaded the spent casings for a proper OCW test with the 77gr and a batch of 55gr just to play around with. I noticed my brass seemed to stick in my FL sizing die, but didn't think too much of it. The next time at the range, the groups were closer to 1-1.5MOA with the 55gr and the load work up on the 77gr didn't give very good results. I figured it was just me having an off day.

I loaded up again, and again noticed the brass sticking in the sizing die. It felt like I had too little lube, but I knew the amount I used should be adequate (Imperial Sizing Wax). The next time to the range (today), my 77gr OCW was more promising, and some preliminary loads with the 77gr showed around 1 MOA at 100yards. The 55gr load opened up to 1.5-2MOA. I'm guessing this is a sign that the brass needs to be annealed. It was on its 4th firing. I also figured the sticking brass was caused by my lack of annealing on this batch.

After annealing, the brass still sticks in the FLS die (Lee RGB). This doesn't happen with my other AR, and I've never had this happen with the previous barrel. I suspected this had something to do with the chamber dimensions on the new barrel. This batch ended up with a completely stuck casing and a torn rim. After a while of testing, I found the only way I could recreate this problem with any other brass was to crush the body with a pair of vise grips, just enough to make it out of round. So I checked my spent casings, and sure enough, at the center of the body, the outside diameter varied up to .005", whereas other cases did not change more than .001".

This barrel is most likely going back. The accuracy isn't good enough for me to deal with the difficult resizing, nor was the price low enough. I plan one more outing with the barrel using Federal GMM (if I can find it locally) and handloads using new brass, but at this point, I've lost confidence in the barrel.

Thanks for listening, rant over.