how important is it that the brass is the exact same lot or weight etc.... just wondering first time reloading and have a bunch of brass but not all exact same weight.
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Re: how important is brass
I originally sorted my Winchester .308 brass into groups of 0.5 grain increments. As an experiment I dumped them all onto my table, mixed them up and loaded 15 cartridges and proceeded to fire 3x 5rd groups and then 3x 5rd groups with my already weight sorted brass. There was no notable difference. YMMV.
I originally sorted my Winchester .308 brass into groups of 0.5 grain increments. As an experiment I dumped them all onto my table, mixed them up and loaded 15 cartridges and proceeded to fire 3x 5rd groups and then 3x 5rd groups with my already weight sorted brass. There was no notable difference. YMMV.
Re: how important is brass
ty, i did'nt see why there would be solely base on the weight but really had no idea for sure so thanx.
ty, i did'nt see why there would be solely base on the weight but really had no idea for sure so thanx.
Re: how important is brass
At 100 to 500, very minor.
At 500 to 1000, maybe a factor.
1,000+ then every little bit counts.
At 100 to 500, very minor.
At 500 to 1000, maybe a factor.
1,000+ then every little bit counts.
Re: how important is brass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawgunner2001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I originally sorted my Winchester .308 brass into groups of 0.5 grain increments. As an experiment I dumped them all onto my table, mixed them up and loaded 15 cartridges and proceeded to fire 3x 5rd groups and then 3x 5rd groups with my already weight sorted brass. There was no notable difference. YMMV. </div></div>
Did you chronograph every shot? Or are you just talking about group size at 100 yards?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawgunner2001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I originally sorted my Winchester .308 brass into groups of 0.5 grain increments. As an experiment I dumped them all onto my table, mixed them up and loaded 15 cartridges and proceeded to fire 3x 5rd groups and then 3x 5rd groups with my already weight sorted brass. There was no notable difference. YMMV. </div></div>
Did you chronograph every shot? Or are you just talking about group size at 100 yards?
Re: how important is brass
I played with it for about 6 mos, not impressed.
IMHO it is more important to get brass from the same mfg and lot number than it is to worry about the case weight.
Think about it.
What does weighing the case tell you?.................the weight of the case.
Does it tell you the internal volume? NO.
Does it tell you how thick the web is? NO.
Does it tell you how thick the walls are? NO
Does it tell you if one side is thicker? NO
Does it tell you if the neck is concentric? NO
If the brass is made on the same machine, chances are all of the above questions will not be answered either but they will be essentially the same.
The only meaningful measure of a case (excepting outside measurements) is the case volume. Does anyone know how much volume 1gr of brass takes up?
If you want to go down the road of measuring each cases volume, well...... you just have a ball
.
Cheers,
Doc
I played with it for about 6 mos, not impressed.
IMHO it is more important to get brass from the same mfg and lot number than it is to worry about the case weight.
Think about it.
What does weighing the case tell you?.................the weight of the case.
Does it tell you the internal volume? NO.
Does it tell you how thick the web is? NO.
Does it tell you how thick the walls are? NO
Does it tell you if one side is thicker? NO
Does it tell you if the neck is concentric? NO
If the brass is made on the same machine, chances are all of the above questions will not be answered either but they will be essentially the same.
The only meaningful measure of a case (excepting outside measurements) is the case volume. Does anyone know how much volume 1gr of brass takes up?
If you want to go down the road of measuring each cases volume, well...... you just have a ball
Cheers,
Doc
Re: how important is brass
I agree with Doc. Weight is a very good indicator of weight, and considerably less reliable as an indicator of anything else.
IMHO, reaming flash holes does more than weighing brass, and figuring out a way to provide at least a coarse management of neck tension is also helpful. Finally, if I want to know how case-to-case volume compares, I drop tube-overfill each case with the actual propellant I'm using and weigh what remains. It's about as close as you can get, and I adhere to the belief that no measurement is going to give me absolutely accurate/relevant data. Comparable, yes; absolute, no.
Greg
I agree with Doc. Weight is a very good indicator of weight, and considerably less reliable as an indicator of anything else.
IMHO, reaming flash holes does more than weighing brass, and figuring out a way to provide at least a coarse management of neck tension is also helpful. Finally, if I want to know how case-to-case volume compares, I drop tube-overfill each case with the actual propellant I'm using and weigh what remains. It's about as close as you can get, and I adhere to the belief that no measurement is going to give me absolutely accurate/relevant data. Comparable, yes; absolute, no.
Greg
Re: how important is brass
I found brass to be the biggest factor in accuracy over the years. I used to take 25 rounds and use the same 25 for testing loads for long range shooting to keep things as close as possible inbetween loads.
When doing some initial loads at 100yds I found that I had a few uncalled flyers. So on a whim I marked the case and the next time out that round was again a flyer. It weighed the same and had all the same things done to it that the other cases had but for some reason it was a bad case.
I recently bought 300rds of Win. 7mm-08 brass to make into 260 brass. When weight sorting it I found one bag that was over 10grs lighter or heavier and when I checked the case capicity there was a full grain of powder different between the two case weights.
If you shoot past 500yds you need to pay attention to everything because the further out you go the more the little things affect your shooting.
I found brass to be the biggest factor in accuracy over the years. I used to take 25 rounds and use the same 25 for testing loads for long range shooting to keep things as close as possible inbetween loads.
When doing some initial loads at 100yds I found that I had a few uncalled flyers. So on a whim I marked the case and the next time out that round was again a flyer. It weighed the same and had all the same things done to it that the other cases had but for some reason it was a bad case.
I recently bought 300rds of Win. 7mm-08 brass to make into 260 brass. When weight sorting it I found one bag that was over 10grs lighter or heavier and when I checked the case capicity there was a full grain of powder different between the two case weights.
If you shoot past 500yds you need to pay attention to everything because the further out you go the more the little things affect your shooting.
Re: how important is brass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawgunner2001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I originally sorted my Winchester .308 brass into groups of 0.5 grain increments. As an experiment I dumped them all onto my table, mixed them up and loaded 15 cartridges and proceeded to fire 3x 5rd groups and then 3x 5rd groups with my already weight sorted brass. There was no notable difference. YMMV. </div></div>
Did you chronograph every shot? Or are you just talking about group size at 100 yards?</div></div>
I did not chrono these. Only tested for groups @ 300yds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawgunner2001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I originally sorted my Winchester .308 brass into groups of 0.5 grain increments. As an experiment I dumped them all onto my table, mixed them up and loaded 15 cartridges and proceeded to fire 3x 5rd groups and then 3x 5rd groups with my already weight sorted brass. There was no notable difference. YMMV. </div></div>
Did you chronograph every shot? Or are you just talking about group size at 100 yards?</div></div>
I did not chrono these. Only tested for groups @ 300yds.
Re: how important is brass
ty for all the responses it seems every day i learn something new thanx all!
ty for all the responses it seems every day i learn something new thanx all!
Re: how important is brass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hue001t</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how important is it that the brass is the exact same lot or weight etc.... just wondering first time reloading and have a bunch of brass but not all exact same weight. </div></div>
If have not read this article, here is the link about load testing at the "Warehouse" in Houston. I used to run around with the bench rest crowd in the 80s when I was young. The gunsmith from Austin mentioned in the article, TJ Jackson, built my bench guns. I was (well, still) a poor guy trying to raise a family and pursuing a hobby, so most of the times I end up with their "shot out" barrels. If their barrels only shoots in the .2s it is shot out.
http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html
On case prep, TJ and I spent long hours in his shop prepping my 6PPC and .308 brass on his lathe with digital readout precisely cutting the necks as described in the article. Back then we shot .308s in hunter, the short .30s did not exist back then, the boys from Louisiana shot the 6HLS.
Just another perspective on brass...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hue001t</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how important is it that the brass is the exact same lot or weight etc.... just wondering first time reloading and have a bunch of brass but not all exact same weight. </div></div>
If have not read this article, here is the link about load testing at the "Warehouse" in Houston. I used to run around with the bench rest crowd in the 80s when I was young. The gunsmith from Austin mentioned in the article, TJ Jackson, built my bench guns. I was (well, still) a poor guy trying to raise a family and pursuing a hobby, so most of the times I end up with their "shot out" barrels. If their barrels only shoots in the .2s it is shot out.
http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html
On case prep, TJ and I spent long hours in his shop prepping my 6PPC and .308 brass on his lathe with digital readout precisely cutting the necks as described in the article. Back then we shot .308s in hunter, the short .30s did not exist back then, the boys from Louisiana shot the 6HLS.
Just another perspective on brass...
Re: how important is brass
wow i just read that article and ty for posting it it was a great read and i learned a lot. I never could have imagined!
wow i just read that article and ty for posting it it was a great read and i learned a lot. I never could have imagined!
Re: how important is brass
Granted this is a very small data point, but out of curiosity while I was load testing on FC brass, I loaded the exact same load with some WIN brass and got almost 150 fps less over the chrono with the WIN brass as I did with the FC brass. I never did weigh them to see the weight difference, but just switching the brass types made a quantifiable difference in velocity, hence I would think that would translate into accuracy at longer ranges.
Granted this is a very small data point, but out of curiosity while I was load testing on FC brass, I loaded the exact same load with some WIN brass and got almost 150 fps less over the chrono with the WIN brass as I did with the FC brass. I never did weigh them to see the weight difference, but just switching the brass types made a quantifiable difference in velocity, hence I would think that would translate into accuracy at longer ranges.
Re: how important is brass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Granted this is a very small data point, but out of curiosity while I was load testing on FC brass, I loaded the exact same load with some WIN brass and got almost 150 fps less over the chrono with the WIN brass as I did with the FC brass. I never did weigh them to see the weight difference, but just switching the brass types made a quantifiable difference in velocity, hence I would think that would translate into accuracy at longer ranges. </div></div>
I'm assuming .308 here? In 300WM Federal cases have significantly less capacity than WW cases. I've checked by dumping a very fine powder in both to verify case capacity.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Granted this is a very small data point, but out of curiosity while I was load testing on FC brass, I loaded the exact same load with some WIN brass and got almost 150 fps less over the chrono with the WIN brass as I did with the FC brass. I never did weigh them to see the weight difference, but just switching the brass types made a quantifiable difference in velocity, hence I would think that would translate into accuracy at longer ranges. </div></div>
I'm assuming .308 here? In 300WM Federal cases have significantly less capacity than WW cases. I've checked by dumping a very fine powder in both to verify case capacity.
John
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