How many are still going to buy stuff "Made in China"

How many are still going to buy stuff "Made in China


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Blue Sky Country

Urban Cowboy
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Even with all political aspects aside, outsourcing, especially the outsourcing of labor and manufacturing on the sheer mass scale that we have seen happen here, will prove to be the death of ANY country in the long run. Being dependent on others for critical sectors of the economy means that you are literally at the mercy of those you depend on.

This shit has to STOP if the USA is to remain a sovereign nation. Not only will bringing back manufacturing to this country reduce and eliminate dependence on other people, it will bring back jobs. More jobs = more domestic business and spending = more robust domestic economy all the way down to the most local level, such as the corner pizzeria...
 

brianf

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you will have to

it might be china or vietnam (who is taking some work from them) or whomever else

regulations and wages make a certain price point impossible if you want made in USA

and what is "made in america":

assembled?

every component?

certain material like rare earth metals are abundant in russia and china and scarce in the US...

rare earth metals are used in cellular telephones, computer hard drives, electric and hybrid vehicles, and flat-screen monitors and televisions. Significant defense applications include electronic displays, guidance systems, lasers, and radar and sonar systems

so there is a limit

but yes i have and will still try and steer clear
 

Darayavaus

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Even with all political aspects aside, outsourcing, especially the outsourcing of labor and manufacturing on the sheer mass scale that we have seen happen here, will prove to be the death of ANY country in the long run. Being dependent on others for critical sectors of the economy means that you are literally at the mercy of those you depend on.

This shit has to STOP if the USA is to remain a sovereign nation. Not only will bringing back manufacturing to this country reduce and eliminate dependence on other people, it will bring back jobs. More jobs = more domestic business and spending = more robust domestic economy all the way down to the most local level, such as the corner pizzeria...
worse yet, they want to flood the market with foreign labor here. So the few jobs that remain in this country are handed to low paid white collar workers who were brought here on a visa. Not your kids when they graduate. And lets bring in millions of "refugees" also, and give them government jobs. How could that possibly be a self-destructive policy?
 

Dippy

nope
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Jan 19, 2019
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Does buying Chinese sex slaves count as “made in China”?

Asking for Epstein.
 
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sirhrmechanic

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I almost never do... but it's sometimes unavoidable. But as US suppliers step in... buy American.

Got to get the missus weaned off cheap chinese crap, though. Damn she can't help herself. And it all breaks in days or is worthless or poisons the cat.

I want to see China back in the Stone age.

Sirhr
 

theLBC

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Jun 21, 2019
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i won't even shop at walmart and never have.
if you don't know already, big stores force vendors to reduce prices until they have no choice but to offshore manufacturing.
i have seen it happen first hand.
 

Darayavaus

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and what is "made in america":

assembled?

every component?

certain material like rare earth metals are abundant in russia and china and scarce in the US...

rare earth metals are used in cellular telephones, computer hard drives, electric and hybrid vehicles, and flat-screen monitors and televisions. Significant defense applications include electronic displays, guidance systems, lasers, and radar and sonar systems

so there is a limit

but yes i have and will still try and steer clear
So no more Leupold. But I was already at that point before the epidemic.

As far as Russia, I know that this will not be well received because many people in the pit are still on pre-1991 time, but those guys could have been an ally against the radical muslims and the globalists if we had decided to go that route. Globalist Bush and then Obama's policies drove them into the arms of the Chinese, especially after Obama and Soros launched that color revolution in Ukraine. The direct fallout is that it infinitely strengthened the Chinese by forcing the cash-strapped Russians to sell them high quality military technology and hardware at a discount.
 

DanGroves

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i won't even shop at walmart and never have.
if you don't know already, big stores force vendors to reduce prices until they have no choice but to offshore manufacturing.
i have seen it happen first hand.
Right, Walmart is mostly Chinese junk. Costco and Samsclub are just as bad. I will gladly pay more for Made in USA products!
 

MtnCreek

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The people have been conned into believing they have to constantly buy cheap shit to satisfy some urge. That's the heart of the problem. It's commerce for the sake of commerce, but we get nothing of value out of it.
 

Maggot

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Im embarrassed to say it but I had to vote 'Decrease' partly because Im retired and have a somewhat limited income and because they make it so goddamned convenient.
 
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theLBC

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The people have been conned into believing they have to constantly buy cheap shit to satisfy some urge. That's the heart of the problem. It's commerce for the sake of commerce, but we get nothing of value out of it.
so true. consumerism gone wild.
 

pmclaine

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So no more Leupold. But I was already at that point before the epidemic.

As far as Russia, I know that this will not be well received because many people in the pit are still on pre-1991 time, but those guys could have been an ally against the radical muslims and the globalists if we had decided to go that route. Globalist Bush and then Obama's policies drove them into the arms of the Chinese, especially after Obama and Soros launched that color revolution in Ukraine. The direct fallout is that it infinitely strengthened the Chinese by forcing the cash-strapped Russians to sell them high quality military technology and hardware at a discount.

Yep.

Always thought a people with the likes of Tolstoy or Rachmaninoff in their ranks was a better match than Mao or Mohhamed.
 

Rant Durden

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I have a better question...How much more are people willing to pay, how long will they wait and will they tolerate lower returns of companies who no longer outsource? It is often difficult to find stuff made here, that is also affordable and available. I would argue Amazon is a partner in this as so much of their products (especially electronics and accessories) are made in the PRC. I seriously doubt outsourcing will diminish all that much, but hopefully we and our speedo wearing Euro friends will do a little de-centralizing and spread the wealth. This would be better for everyone except the PRC, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing.
One thing that concerns me though is the amount of investment by US companies in the PRC. If a large number of companies moved production away from PRC, it would result in significantly increased operating costs, which would lower returns. Would folks be ok with their 401k's not performing as well AND paying more for that fancy do-dad?
 

theLBC

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I have a better question...How much more are people willing to pay, how long will they wait and will they tolerate lower returns of companies who no longer outsource? It is often difficult to find stuff made here, that is also affordable and available. I would argue Amazon is a partner in this as so much of their products (especially electronics and accessories) are made in the PRC. I seriously doubt outsourcing will diminish all that much, but hopefully we and our speedo wearing Euro friends will do a little de-centralizing and spread the wealth. This would be better for everyone except the PRC, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing.
One thing that concerns me though is the amount of investment by US companies in the PRC. If a large number of companies moved production away from PRC, it would result in significantly increased operating costs, which would lower returns. Would folks be ok with their 401k's not performing as well AND paying more for that fancy do-dad?
good points, but compared to this shit?
i understand that not everyone can afford to put price before principles.
 

pmclaine

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I have a better question...How much more are people willing to pay, how long will they wait and will they tolerate lower returns of companies who no longer outsource? It is often difficult to find stuff made here, that is also affordable and available. I would argue Amazon is a partner in this as so much of their products (especially electronics and accessories) are made in the PRC. I seriously doubt outsourcing will diminish all that much, but hopefully we and our speedo wearing Euro friends will do a little de-centralizing and spread the wealth. This would be better for everyone except the PRC, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing.
One thing that concerns me though is the amount of investment by US companies in the PRC. If a large number of companies moved production away from PRC, it would result in significantly increased operating costs, which would lower returns. Would folks be ok with their 401k's not performing as well AND paying more for that fancy do-dad?

The return on the cheap production/maximized profits has only gone into CEO salaries and board returns.

The stock market valuations are fake until you actually sell the stock than at any moment it can all be wiped away and transferred to a short seller.

The average guy used to get a job and a better made product out of the deal.

Now we just basically get screwed.

Bringing the work back here will take from the top and give to the middle class.

I dont expect that will happen without a fight.
 

Darayavaus

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Globalism has always been about destroying the middle class in America and reducing everyone to a third world standard of living. Equally, all around the world. It's modern bolshevism.

the people who benefit are the Soros and Rockefeller types and the paid-off politicians; and the people who get the chop are us and our kids.

They are fanatically involved with outsourcing, wage cutting, and mass immigration, all of which give them power and wealth beyond measure, ruin our cultural identity and relegate our constitution to a dusty old paper in the back of a museum. All of our public education, media, and entertainment has been geared towards making people blindly accept this reality at the fear of being called racist. Dont want to buy chicom? RACIST! Believe in borders? RACIST! Don't want your kids to be unemployed so they can bring in foreign workers? RACIST!

As the communist Internationale said, they will "destroy the old world down to it's foundations" and then build the new world in their own image. And once the money and prosperity are all gone, the desperate people are willing to go along with any government command in order to eek out another day in government housing with a little food on the table. I've seen all this before in the soviet union.
 

E. Bryant

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Damn, this thread has some solid thinking. I'd like to buy beers for several of you.
 

pmclaine

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In order for this to happen you would have to get rid of walmart and all the "poors" who shop there. just sayin.

The poors would have to be working in the new businesses...........

But having lived for a time at the tax payers largess they may not be so eager for that change.
 

TheGerman

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I basically try and avoid it now and have for many years.

My biggest roadblocks are when the ONLY place you can get a certain thing from is China, or if the Made in USA part is 500000000 times more expensive. I definetly do not mind paying more for made in USA stuff, but there are a few things where the only USA made thing is cost prohibative.

I'm hoping the aftermath of the virus has us investing into a new emerging economy like Brasil, Ukraine or even Mexico to replace China.
 

mcfred

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Feb 17, 2011
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Sure, I want to support Americans, but Americans and The System aren't making it easy. Example:

Simple QC tool holder
$91.34 shipped "Proudly" made in New Jersey

$23.62 delivered from a third-world shit-hole

Why I should pay the commies in New Jersey 387% more than the commies overseas for a drilled-and-tapped, slotted lump of steel with a dovetail down the back side. Being simple machines, both effectively have no moving parts, and both will be utterly reliable when used as intended. Is the Made in USA one going to be 387% better somehow? Should I work 400% harder to pay for the Jersey guys' product instead?

I doubt the Aloris owners are driving around Ferraris and spending 6 weeks a year on a private yacht anchored off the shores of Monoco, so whose pockets are lined with the extra money? Not the tiny manufacturing company's, that's for sure.

If the System's broken, should I break my back working to support it "'cause 'Mericuh?"
 

nso123

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Sometimes there is no alternate source. For example, I have a fly fishing business and deal with tungsten beads on the flies. I have searched high and low for an American manufacturer without finding one. This is the same for bass fishing weights. Plenty of American distributors, but no manufacturers.
 

pmclaine

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Sure, I want to support Americans, but Americans and The System aren't making it easy. Example:

Simple QC tool holder
$91.34 shipped "Proudly" made in New Jersey

$23.62 delivered from a third-world shit-hole

Why I should pay the commies in New Jersey 387% more than the commies overseas for a drilled-and-tapped, slotted lump of steel with a dovetail down the back side. Being simple machines, both effectively have no moving parts, and both will be utterly reliable when used as intended. Is the Made in USA one going to be 387% better somehow? Should I work 400% harder to pay for the Jersey guys' product instead?

I doubt the Aloris owners are driving around Ferraris and spending 6 weeks a year on a private yacht anchored off the shores of Monoco, so whose pockets are lined with the extra money? Not the tiny manufacturing company's, that's for sure.

If the System's broken, should I break my back working to support it "'cause 'Mericuh?"
I think you would find the US tool made with better peripheral products.

Those hex head screws are actually probably hardened on the US tool and will last a lifetime while the chinese ones will be soft and fail over time.

Id pay the $91 in that example.

Thing is though I am only a hobbyist tool user.

Business guys have other considerations to contend with in a high competition world.

The Aloris money is going some to the principle, a living wage amount to the actual tech that builds it, some to our US regulations that deem the machine waste a hazardous waste, some to OSHA for the blade guard on the machine that makes it, mandated insurances for the emplyee, taxes to US - paid by customer, taxes to the state - paid by customer........the Chinese pay none of those "penalties" Aloris does.
 

Darayavaus

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Yep.

Always thought a people with the likes of Tolstoy or Rachmaninoff in their ranks was a better match than Mao or Mohhamed.
 
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pmclaine

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wade2big

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America is just as much to blame as China for our lack of manufacturing. We tolerate our elected leaders greed and business killing regulations. Our government is our main threat.
 
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theLBC

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America is just as much to blame as China for our lack of manufacturing. We tolerate our elected leaders greed and business killing regulations. Our government is our main threat.
and that is just one more reason i love trump.
 

niteshooter

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Said the same thing to the wife a few days ago. I doubt anything will change. Nobody cares.
People care more about what’s happening on Survivor tonight than market control or economics and how much those things control thier lives.
Before any of this recent crap started I was already of the mindset that China can go hug a root.
 
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Rthur

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Sure, I want to support Americans, but Americans and The System aren't making it easy. Example:

Simple QC tool holder
$91.34 shipped "Proudly" made in New Jersey

$23.62 delivered from a third-world shit-hole

Why I should pay the commies in New Jersey 387% more than the commies overseas for a drilled-and-tapped, slotted lump of steel with a dovetail down the back side. Being simple machines, both effectively have no moving parts, and both will be utterly reliable when used as intended. Is the Made in USA one going to be 387% better somehow? Should I work 400% harder to pay for the Jersey guys' product instead?

I doubt the Aloris owners are driving around Ferraris and spending 6 weeks a year on a private yacht anchored off the shores of Monoco, so whose pockets are lined with the extra money? Not the tiny manufacturing company's, that's for sure.

If the System's broken, should I break my back working to support it "'cause 'Mericuh?"
Have an aloris post and both brands holders.
Not even close on quality.
Set screws were/are shit on the chiny brand.
I shop around to find deals on the holders, can get much closer.

R
 

missed

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I always have tried to not buy China.

Really it's not only about supporting our country. I would think anybody with any environmental conscious would avoid Chinese products as they don't give a only care about making a buck, what waste doesn't go on the ground winds up in the air.

That is a huge reason my new bike has a USA made frame. I'm pretty sure I'm going to a Shimano drivetrain to get Japanese built parts instead of China.
 

mcfred

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Those hex head screws are actually probably hardened on the US tool and will last a lifetime while the chinese ones will be soft and fail over time.
Not even close on quality.
Set screws were/are shit on the chiny brand.
So if the screws are the performance metric, how many USA-made screws can I get for the $60 difference?

I too have used USA tools/holders (Dorian/Aloris/Starrett/Browne & Sharpe, Hardinge, etc.) and for my ±.002" hobby work, it's unjustifiable until I get a raise or pick up a few hundred more hours at work (lemme see, do I get to go to work today? Nope.). I don't get to exploit Rube Goldberg IRS tooling deductions and depreciation schedules. Again, I fault a broken system that hobbles US manufacturing to not be even remotely competitive with third-world shit-holes.

Next time I get contracted to produce 100,000 widgits upon whose funtion human lives rely on, I'll spring for the Made in USA tools, until then I gotta eat too.
 

OldSalty

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TBH, we really should be asking our kids this question. While all of us think about screw holders, china is planning world domination many years down the road. Screws are but a means to their end.

But I have sad news for ya, a bit of reality check.

Kids today probably do not feel all that strongly about "buy American" and are likely very indifferent...for the most part.

Sure, "not my kid" will pop up, but look around where you are posting.

Demographics, public education, media, leftist policy and shaming have all but assured this truth.

Go ask a kid "is china our friend", and see what response you get...
 

E. Bryant

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America is just as much to blame as China for our lack of manufacturing. We tolerate our elected leaders greed and business killing regulations. Our government is our main threat.
You could go wipe off the books every labor and environmental law, and the companies that outsourced would have still outsourced.
 

Rthur

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So if the screws are the performance metric, how many USA-made screws can I get for the $60 difference?

I too have used USA tools/holders (Dorian/Aloris/Starrett/Browne & Sharpe, Hardinge, etc.) and for my ±.002" hobby work, it's unjustifiable until I get a raise or pick up a few hundred more hours at work (lemme see, do I get to go to work today? Nope.). I don't get to exploit Rube Goldberg IRS tooling deductions and depreciation schedules. Again, I fault a broken system that hobbles US manufacturing to not be even remotely competitive with third-world shit-holes.

Next time I get contracted to produce 100,000 widgits upon whose funtion human lives rely on, I'll spring for the Made in USA tools, until then I gotta eat too.
Not just the screws, that is just an example.
Don't care what you buy.
I'll do me you do you.
Broken system that was created by several praticipants.
These would include EPA, OHSA, IRS, Unions, elected officials, consumers, ect ect.

R
 

pmclaine

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So if the screws are the performance metric, how many USA-made screws can I get for the $60 difference?

I too have used USA tools/holders (Dorian/Aloris/Starrett/Browne & Sharpe, Hardinge, etc.) and for my ±.002" hobby work, it's unjustifiable until I get a raise or pick up a few hundred more hours at work (lemme see, do I get to go to work today? Nope.). I don't get to exploit Rube Goldberg IRS tooling deductions and depreciation schedules. Again, I fault a broken system that hobbles US manufacturing to not be even remotely competitive with third-world shit-holes.

Next time I get contracted to produce 100,000 widgits upon whose funtion human lives rely on, I'll spring for the Made in USA tools, until then I gotta eat too.
You have thought it out and taken into consideration the pluses/minuses to come to a decision that is good for you.

I could look at that price delta consider how much I appreciate quality, realize good tools give great results, factor in my mouth and promotion of "Made in USA", have lived the reality of cheap shit going tits up on me at the worst of times, and most important am fortunate enough to be able to afford the delta, therefore I can justify the $70 or so bucks.

You make your decision on your terms.
 

Hound Dog

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I avoid chicom made crap at all cost, it pisses me off when there is no alternative or it is 5 times as expensive though.
 

Kickin45

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When you say “stuff”, do you mean ANYTHING made in China or just stuff for the shooting sports?
 

mi223

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I usually stay out of these conversations because admittedly i am not very educated on such topics.

While i agree with bringing jobs home and buying us made products. There is one big problem that i see.

Here in Michigan there is a major shortage of labourers. Both skilled and unskilled. If we were to bring back even a portion of Chinese labor back to th US who is going to fill these positions?

I try to support US jobs the best i can but unfortunately i struggle to see how it will work to totally or even largely drop Chinese labor.

China has the population to fill these jobs. If not them it will have to be someone else.

One last thought. China uses child labor. While that is not a good thing the US is totally opposite. It is becoming harder for a 17 year old to get a summer job to make some money while out of school, even though the jobs are available. If a kid wants to work that should be supported and encouraged in a healthy way.
 

candyx

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Its Capitalism at its best, corporations seeking the lowest product cost to make the most profit. We would fundamentally have to change Capitalism to a governmental control market. Government would have to put tariffs on all imported products to force corporations to manufacture in the USA this would be good for National Security but would reduce our trade with other countries who buy our products if any. This problem was started by our politicians who sought campaign donations and hidden cash payments to pass trade agreements that destroyed our manufacturing base and life as we known it.
I don't think standing in a voting booth pulling a lever will actually change the way this Machine is operating now and going forward to be honest since money and power are two drugs these addicts can't give up.
 

pmclaine

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I usually stay out of these conversations because admittedly i am not very educated on such topics.

While i agree with bringing jobs home and buying us made products. There is one big problem that i see.

Here in Michigan there is a major shortage of labourers. Both skilled and unskilled. If we were to bring back even a portion of Chinese labor back to th US who is going to fill these positions?

I try to support US jobs the best i can but unfortunately i struggle to see how it will work to totally or even largely drop Chinese labor.

China has the population to fill these jobs. If not them it will have to be someone else.

One last thought. China uses child labor. While that is not a good thing the US is totally opposite. It is becoming harder for a 17 year old to get a summer job to make some money while out of school, even though the jobs are available. If a kid wants to work that should be supported and encouraged in a healthy way.
There are people available here for the jobs but it is tough for the manufacturer to provide unskilled labor compensation that will entice them off the couch if the government provides a safety net worth anywhere from $25K and up a year.

Problem with kids and working I see is that all the starter jobs are taken up by people I wont class but they are non English speaking. At the grocery store which was my first job my less sensitive Brazilian (not made in America) girlfriend called them "Fejuado" which I understand would translate as "Beaners" - fucking racist Brazilians glad I dumped that chick.

If my kid went and worked my first job he would spend his day not being able to talk to anyone.

I also observe that in my location kids have lost their work ethic.

How could they not.

Growing up Mom and Dad did the yard care and the kids helped. The family did the housework.

With our allowing an under the radar slave class to grow I only see landscape trucks/trailers pulling up to the house with 4-5 guys that come in and blow out a yard in minutes. The Dodge Caravan with two women and their mop buckets is almost a meme now.

I think Im the only one in my neighborhood that actually cuts the grass on his own pushing a 7 horsepower Craftsman and my wife and I clean our own house. We do this both working full time jobs. Sadly we are not the norm - Americans are getting soft.