How to efficiently dial elevation for variable range targets

[NORCAL50]

Scope in Question: Vortex Diamondback EBR-2C reticle in MOA. One rotation = 15 MOA, and no marks to keep track of turret rotations like on my viper gen 1. Zero on turrets is my true zero.

If I'm dialing up:

• I figure out how many times I need to go past/to zero (up). Then dial to that. Next take (Desired hold) - (# Rotations * 15) = Number to dial to.
• Example: 8MOA to 42MOA: Go past zero 2x, now I'm at 30. Easy math. Next, (42) - (2*15) = 12. Dial up to 12. Done.

If I'm dialing down:

• Figure out how many times I need to go past/to zero (down). Dial to that. Then (Desired hold) - (current position - 15).
• Example: 42MOA to 21MOA: Go "past" zero 1x. Now I'm at 30. Then (21) - (30-15) = 6. Dial down to 6. Done.

Before I conclude, the hashmarks are great and certainly have their place (for me that's 0-10MOA). But 500 to 1230yds (+41MOA) and back down is not their place, especially holding wind with hashmarks simultaneously. It just gets a bit messy, and I'll also run out of hashmarks.

Thus, I'm hoping there's a more efficient way to dial the turrets, as my current method and metal ability is slow for my liking. Otherwise, I'll just be playing with the turrets until it comes naturally.

Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks

 

[JMGlasgow]

Maybe spend the money on a better scope with a real zero stop.

 

[NORCAL50]

Maybe spend the money on a better scope with a real zero stop.

I technically have a zero stop, because I'm bottomed out (with the help of Burris XTR rings, and their MOA spacers). So returning to zero, and keeping track of it is not an issue.

My issue is keeping track of the number of times I go past zero, and how to convert the number +21MOA into 1 rotation, +6MOA. Or 42MOA into 2 rotations +12MOA, simultaneously accounting for how many times I have already gone around zero, on the fly. If 1 rotation was 20MOA this would be way easier. And a rotation counter.

I can't afford the better scopes or I'd obviously get it, but regardless I'm still curious how you guys do it with fancy scopes.

 

[JMGlasgow]

But you're worried about how many rotations up you've gone. Like I said, get a better optic, and ditch MOA. You'll thank us later for it. Lots of scopes have rev indicators as well. Steiner T5, Steiner M5, Razor Gen 2 to name a few.

 

[NORCAL50]

But you're worried about how many rotations up you've gone. Like I said, get a better optic, and ditch MOA. You'll thank us later for it. Lots of scopes have rev indicators as well. Steiner T5, Steiner M5, Razor Gen 2 to name a few.

Curious, with an MRAD optic that is $2k, how will I not have the same problem? I'm gonna assume 1 rotation is 10MRAD and each click is 0.1MRAD. Assuming I wanted to go from 42.0MRAD down to 21.0MRAD... oh my god this is so much easier.

Anyways I think my problem is 1 rotation is 15MOA, if it was 20MOA I wouldn't have this problem.

 

[JMGlasgow]

With an mrad adjustment scope, 1 rotation will generally get you to 1000yards depending on caliber. My dial is 8.3 Mrad at 1000 yards with 130gr 6.5 Creedmoor going 2850. Even my 308 with 155's gets to 1000 yards in 1 rotation.

The Steiner T5 is a 12 mrad per rotation turret, but most are 10. It's not too late to convert from MOA.

 

[NORCAL50]

With an mrad adjustment scope, 1 rotation will generally get you to 1000yards depending on caliber. My dial is 8.3 Mrad at 1000 yards with 130gr 6.5 Creedmoor going 2850. Even my 308 with 155's gets to 1000 yards in 1 rotation.

The Steiner T5 is a 12 mrad per rotation turret, but most are 10. It's not too late to convert from MOA.

Damn these forums lol always getting me to spend money *sighs deeply*

Thank you for converting me.

 

[Steel head]

With an mrad adjustment scope, 1 rotation will generally get you to 1000yards depending on caliber. My dial is 8.3 Mrad at 1000 yards with 130gr 6.5 Creedmoor going 2850. Even my 308 with 155's gets to 1000 yards in 1 rotation.

The Steiner T5 is a 12 mrad per rotation turret, but most are 10. It's not too late to convert from MOA.

When I converted to mils I immediately liked the smaller numbers and quick dialing.

 

[PB&J.]

Start using mils. Base 10 FTW.

As far as dialling for shooting at varying yardage efficiently. Speed Drop factor plus a compensation card is where it's at for doing this quickly. Range target, dial your yardage as elevation and send it into your nominated vital zone diameter. Eg, target is 678yds, dial 6.8mil and let it rip.

If you need to nail your waterline, make up a compensation card for your various density altitudes. Range target, dial your yardage, hold over/under your compensation (ie, +0.2, -0.1 etc) and nail it.

I have started using Speed Drop Factor almost exclusively. There is no way I'm going back to a "traditional" zero.

 

[hlee]

Curious, with an MRAD optic that is $2k, how will I not have the same problem? I'm gonna assume 1 rotation is 10MRAD and each click is 0.1MRAD. Assuming I wanted to go from 42.0MRAD down to 21.0MRAD... oh my god this is so much easier.

Anyways I think my problem is 1 rotation is 15MOA, if it was 20MOA I wouldn't have this problem.

Yeah, a 10 mrad per rotation scope roughly equals a 36 moa per rotation scope. A “better” scope obviates the issue you have, which is limited angular adjustment per rotation of the dial.

 

[smoothy8500]

Even the Vortex gen 2 moa scope has something like 25 moa per rotation.....if you still want moa and like the merciless ridicule.

Anyways I think my problem is 1 rotation is 15MOA, if it was 20MOA I wouldn't have this problem.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Just write down something like this on your arm board for targets at 8 moa, 42moa, 21moa

T1: 8

T2: +two 12

T2: -one 6

Or, just dial down to the zero stop and back up each time. We are talking seconds here. Not a lot of time.

Of course, a different optic is better solution. But either if the above will work.

 

[locotrician]

But you're worried about how many rotations up you've gone. Like I said, get a better optic, and ditch MOA. You'll thank us later for it. Lots of scopes have rev indicators as well. Steiner T5, Steiner M5, Razor Gen 2 to name a few.

No need at all to ditch MOA , ignore anyone that makes this argument .

 

[Mike Casselton]

Scope in Question: Vortex Diamondback EBR-2C reticle in MOA. One rotation = 15 MOA, and no marks to keep track of turret rotations like on my viper gen 1. Zero on turrets is my true zero.

If I'm dialing up:

• I figure out how many times I need to go past/to zero (up). Then dial to that. Next take (Desired hold) - (# Rotations * 15) = Number to dial to.
• Example: 8MOA to 42MOA: Go past zero 2x, now I'm at 30. Easy math. Next, (42) - (2*15) = 12. Dial up to 12. Done.

If I'm dialing down:

• Figure out how many times I need to go past/to zero (down). Dial to that. Then (Desired hold) - (current position - 15).
• Example: 42MOA to 21MOA: Go "past" zero 1x. Now I'm at 30. Then (21) - (30-15) = 6. Dial down to 6. Done.

Before I conclude, the hashmarks are great and certainly have their place (for me that's 0-10MOA). But 500 to 1230yds (+41MOA) and back down is not their place, especially holding wind with hashmarks simultaneously. It just gets a bit messy, and I'll also run out of hashmarks.

Thus, I'm hoping there's a more efficient way to dial the turrets, as my current method and metal ability is slow for my liking. Otherwise, I'll just be playing with the turrets until it comes naturally.

Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks

Switch to mil and you can get to 1200 with a little over 1 rotation.

That was easy...

 

[DownhillFromHere]

One comment I think worthwhile (at least to people who compete) to this old thread I just stumbled across:

On any given Vortex scope model, it takes less rotation of a MILS elevation turret to achieve a given amount of "up" as compared to an MOA turret. Does it matter? To me it does. I'm old&slow. The extra few seconds can mean getting another scored shot or not, especially for rimfire where dialing 20 mils isn't unusual.

Examples:

• Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50
  - MOA: 15 MOA per turn (equals 4.4 mils)
  - Mils: 6 mils per turn (equals 20.5 MOA)
• Razor 4.5-27x56
  - MOA: 25 MOA per turn (equals 7.3 mils)
  - Mils: 10 mils per turn (equals 34.25 MOA)

So the Razor's mils turret gives an additional 9+ MOA per revolution (total available elevation in both is the same; difference is how much cranking is needed to use it all).

When the clock is running, the additional dialing can matter. I started PRS-style competition with MOA scopes because MOA was familiar to me. During one of my first rimfire matches, one stage had targets from 80 to 400 yards. Dialing to that most distant target required 2.75 turns on a 25MOA-per-revolution turret. Same elevation on the same scope with a mils turret takes two turns.

It took me like one range session to make the transition from MOA to mils, and ballistic calculators "go both ways" anyway. I used to say there's no difference between the two; just two ways of measuring the same thing. That's true, but the mechanical difference in the scopes' operation might matter to some folks. It's worth knowing.