Re: how to make $40k quickly
Where was this dude mic-ed at? his lower back? Most of what I can make out is car noise. But I didn't hear the officer tell him he was under arrest- turn around and put your hands behind your back does not constitute "you are under arrest". Granted, one SHOULD assume such, but as the Mirada case proved- it is not the job of the offender to assume anything; you MUST spell it out. Not everyone you're working with here has the ability to make those connections. Anyway, no one can force you to sign anything. It appears to me to have been handled a little inappropriately. It's a traffic violation- write the ticket, give it to him- you have it on camera and audio. Move along about your business. No crime was committed.
These videos really do not help the over whelming majority of officers who are outstanding at their job. The one bad apple thing seems to apply here (depending on the person passing judgement anyway)
Where was this dude mic-ed at? his lower back? Most of what I can make out is car noise. But I didn't hear the officer tell him he was under arrest- turn around and put your hands behind your back does not constitute "you are under arrest". Granted, one SHOULD assume such, but as the Mirada case proved- it is not the job of the offender to assume anything; you MUST spell it out. Not everyone you're working with here has the ability to make those connections. Anyway, no one can force you to sign anything. It appears to me to have been handled a little inappropriately. It's a traffic violation- write the ticket, give it to him- you have it on camera and audio. Move along about your business. No crime was committed.
These videos really do not help the over whelming majority of officers who are outstanding at their job. The one bad apple thing seems to apply here (depending on the person passing judgement anyway)
Re: how to make $40k quickly
Is refusing to sign a ticket a crime? Serious question and I'm sure it varies by state but generally speaking. Also, if the recipient is required by law to sign it, is he first allowed to read it. What would have happened if he had made that request?
Is refusing to sign a ticket a crime? Serious question and I'm sure it varies by state but generally speaking. Also, if the recipient is required by law to sign it, is he first allowed to read it. What would have happened if he had made that request?
Re: how to make $40k quickly
granted the guy is dumb, but I dont see where a taser was justified.
granted the guy is dumb, but I dont see where a taser was justified.
Re: how to make $40k quickly
He never told him how fast he was going. I will not sign a ticket unless I am told how fast I was going first. I guess I am just as dumb as this guy.
He never told him how fast he was going. I will not sign a ticket unless I am told how fast I was going first. I guess I am just as dumb as this guy.
Re: how to make $40k quickly
Wow - When you sign a ticket it is not an admission of guilt. It is a promise to show up for court and or contact the judge before the due date. That's what the Texas DPS tell you when they give a ticket. A friend of mine refused to sign a ticket and he was arrested and had to spend the night in jail and see the judge the next morning. Guess he should have refused to sign between 8 & 5 not at midnight.
Wow - When you sign a ticket it is not an admission of guilt. It is a promise to show up for court and or contact the judge before the due date. That's what the Texas DPS tell you when they give a ticket. A friend of mine refused to sign a ticket and he was arrested and had to spend the night in jail and see the judge the next morning. Guess he should have refused to sign between 8 & 5 not at midnight.
Re: how to make $40k quickly
quote from the fox news article on the settlement:
"The signature isn't a legal requirement in Utah, but troopers make a practice of obtaining it as a motorist's pledge to appear in court."
fox news story
quote from the fox news article on the settlement:
"The signature isn't a legal requirement in Utah, but troopers make a practice of obtaining it as a motorist's pledge to appear in court."
fox news story
Re: how to make $40k quickly
Here's my take. First just a little explaining on the cops part may have avoided this whole thing. Just tell the guy it;s a ticket for speeding, the signs posted, sign the ticket, go to court if you want to plead your case. Signature does not mean innocence or guilt, just that you received a citation. Period.
On the other hand. That's not the first guy to walk back to his truck and either jump in an take off, or grab a gun and start shooting. Whole lot of dash cams on those two things. I did notice him sticking his hand into his right pocket as he turned around to walk toward the car. Not that he was going to pull a desert eagle out, but people sticking hands in pockets is generally not a good thing. Seeing what I saw, officer could have handled the conversation better up front,which may have changed the ending, but I don't have a real problem with the ending for the guy not complying.
Really didn't like how the officer approached the vehicle. Looked like he was in a rural area. He walked up like he was going to the teller window at his bank.
Here's my take. First just a little explaining on the cops part may have avoided this whole thing. Just tell the guy it;s a ticket for speeding, the signs posted, sign the ticket, go to court if you want to plead your case. Signature does not mean innocence or guilt, just that you received a citation. Period.
On the other hand. That's not the first guy to walk back to his truck and either jump in an take off, or grab a gun and start shooting. Whole lot of dash cams on those two things. I did notice him sticking his hand into his right pocket as he turned around to walk toward the car. Not that he was going to pull a desert eagle out, but people sticking hands in pockets is generally not a good thing. Seeing what I saw, officer could have handled the conversation better up front,which may have changed the ending, but I don't have a real problem with the ending for the guy not complying.
Really didn't like how the officer approached the vehicle. Looked like he was in a rural area. He walked up like he was going to the teller window at his bank.
Re: how to make $40k quickly
yeah cops approach was bad.. and ol boy reaching for his pocket walking away was sketchy.. easy to get a blade out and do damage in that distance,, think both are knuckleheads, but i do think in my opinion.. officer went a lil to fast to the taser.. seems to be easier then actually trying to controll and talk down the scene.. went from do what i say to zap.. didnt really see the threat for that force but, the officer was definitly lacking in his control of the situation..
then again.. who knows what the officer has been through in the past to make his judgement this way..
think both of them need a good slap in the head and roll on..
yeah cops approach was bad.. and ol boy reaching for his pocket walking away was sketchy.. easy to get a blade out and do damage in that distance,, think both are knuckleheads, but i do think in my opinion.. officer went a lil to fast to the taser.. seems to be easier then actually trying to controll and talk down the scene.. went from do what i say to zap.. didnt really see the threat for that force but, the officer was definitly lacking in his control of the situation..
then again.. who knows what the officer has been through in the past to make his judgement this way..
think both of them need a good slap in the head and roll on..
Re: how to make $40k quickly
I think we missed a key point here. It's not a legal requirement to sign the ticket. There for the entire basis of removing him from the vehicle is 100% wrong. Further, until he is actually placed under arrest (and again, I never heard him tell the man he was under arrest), once the ticket is given, the officer has no basis to hold the driver. So, from the stand point of everything after the ticket was handed to the driver, the officer was in the wrong.
HOWEVER-
It was a very bad idea on the driver's part to put is hand in his pocket. Also, he should have just went along with what the officer wanted. Given there was no basis for an arrest, had the officer made the arrest without an objection by the driver, the driver would have had an easy win on a false arrest case... possibly even a tort case. Would have still won good money, but wouldn't have had the pain of being tased.
They really do both look like a couple of knuckle heads. But, had the officer conducted himself correctly, this would have ended with "sir, we ask that you sign, but there is no requirement under the law- just follow the directions on the ticket and keep your speed down".
Also, I have to agree- officer's approach was very Lackadaisical; he makes himself a good traget.
I think we missed a key point here. It's not a legal requirement to sign the ticket. There for the entire basis of removing him from the vehicle is 100% wrong. Further, until he is actually placed under arrest (and again, I never heard him tell the man he was under arrest), once the ticket is given, the officer has no basis to hold the driver. So, from the stand point of everything after the ticket was handed to the driver, the officer was in the wrong.
HOWEVER-
It was a very bad idea on the driver's part to put is hand in his pocket. Also, he should have just went along with what the officer wanted. Given there was no basis for an arrest, had the officer made the arrest without an objection by the driver, the driver would have had an easy win on a false arrest case... possibly even a tort case. Would have still won good money, but wouldn't have had the pain of being tased.
They really do both look like a couple of knuckle heads. But, had the officer conducted himself correctly, this would have ended with "sir, we ask that you sign, but there is no requirement under the law- just follow the directions on the ticket and keep your speed down".
Also, I have to agree- officer's approach was very Lackadaisical; he makes himself a good traget.
Re: how to make $40k quickly
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think we missed a key point here. It's not a legal requirement to sign the ticket. There for the entire basis of removing him from the vehicle is 100% wrong. Further, until he is actually placed under arrest (and again, I never heard him tell the man he was under arrest), once the ticket is given, the officer has no basis to hold the driver. So, from the stand point of everything after the ticket was handed to the driver, the officer was in the wrong.
</div></div>
That is all that needs to be said. The officer had no right to remove that man from his car. As the man exits the car he obviously points to the speed limit sign(that you can observe earlier in the video) and mentions that the officer pulled him over in front of the sign.....what does the officer do. Pull a taser gun. The man did not take an aggresive stance at all towards the officer. He was obviously scared and taken back by the officers actions and escalation of force. The man then tries to remove himself from the situation and get tasered. I'm sorry but If you think this is okay you need your head examined.
If the officer is concerned about the man pulling a gun(having exhibited such a meek and scared response) then he needs to be put on desk duty until he can accurately apply force to compliance (or lack thereof) and demeanor or intent of possible suspects.
Bottom line is that this cops a douche and makes the good guys look bad.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think we missed a key point here. It's not a legal requirement to sign the ticket. There for the entire basis of removing him from the vehicle is 100% wrong. Further, until he is actually placed under arrest (and again, I never heard him tell the man he was under arrest), once the ticket is given, the officer has no basis to hold the driver. So, from the stand point of everything after the ticket was handed to the driver, the officer was in the wrong.
</div></div>
That is all that needs to be said. The officer had no right to remove that man from his car. As the man exits the car he obviously points to the speed limit sign(that you can observe earlier in the video) and mentions that the officer pulled him over in front of the sign.....what does the officer do. Pull a taser gun. The man did not take an aggresive stance at all towards the officer. He was obviously scared and taken back by the officers actions and escalation of force. The man then tries to remove himself from the situation and get tasered. I'm sorry but If you think this is okay you need your head examined.
If the officer is concerned about the man pulling a gun(having exhibited such a meek and scared response) then he needs to be put on desk duty until he can accurately apply force to compliance (or lack thereof) and demeanor or intent of possible suspects.
Bottom line is that this cops a douche and makes the good guys look bad.
Re: how to make $40k quickly
All I can say is that I hope that officer lost his job and lively hood permanently.
All I can say is that I hope that officer lost his job and lively hood permanently.
Re: how to make $40k quickly
Looks to me like he was leaving, he did not comply with any instructions he was given.
Also never let a person what back to a car is the first rule of traffic stop.
Tennessee law and protocol, is violator signs the ticket, plain and simple, if violator does not sign, straight to jail they go.
Looks to me like he was leaving, he did not comply with any instructions he was given.
Also never let a person what back to a car is the first rule of traffic stop.
Tennessee law and protocol, is violator signs the ticket, plain and simple, if violator does not sign, straight to jail they go.
Re: how to make $40k quickly
Yeah, this and the FBI raiding the wrong fucking house is just wonderful. Lest we forget about Ruby Ridge....
Yeah, this and the FBI raiding the wrong fucking house is just wonderful. Lest we forget about Ruby Ridge....
Re: how to make $40k quickly
Although Officers have the right to arrest people who fail to sign notices to appear, the application of force in this incident seems to cross the 'reasonableness' standard required by the 4th Amendment.
Although Officers have the right to arrest people who fail to sign notices to appear, the application of force in this incident seems to cross the 'reasonableness' standard required by the 4th Amendment.
Re: how to make $40k quickly
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KChen986</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although Officers have the right to arrest people who fail to sign notices to appear, the application of force in this incident seems to cross the 'reasonableness' standard required by the 4th Amendment. </div></div>
That is just it, under Utah law, the driver signature isn't a requirement.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KChen986</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although Officers have the right to arrest people who fail to sign notices to appear, the application of force in this incident seems to cross the 'reasonableness' standard required by the 4th Amendment. </div></div>
That is just it, under Utah law, the driver signature isn't a requirement.
Re: how to make $40k quickly
Had a local officer pull me over for a trailer light out not long ago, walked right up and framed himself in my driver side window. Never looked at my hands.
Then there was the K-9 officer who came to the door when I was workng on a closed bar in town one Sunday morning. Hear this banging on the door, go to check, it's a cop with the dog. He wants in, so I tell him I can't open that door, only have a key for the back one. Meet him back there, he says the alarm is going off(I had slipped up and punched in a wrong number in the first code, and corrected it with a second attempt). He wants to know if there is anyone else there. I tell him no, just me, and that I am working on the bathroom. Then he asks if there is anyone holding me against my will. I chuckle and tell him not that I remember. He asks to come in, and I say, sure. At which point I hold the door for him while he and the dog walk PAST me into the darkened building's interior. I then FOLLOWED him around the place until he satisfied himself I was legit and alone. Anybody need a job? The local PD should be looking for a training officer, whether they are or not...
Had a local officer pull me over for a trailer light out not long ago, walked right up and framed himself in my driver side window. Never looked at my hands.
Then there was the K-9 officer who came to the door when I was workng on a closed bar in town one Sunday morning. Hear this banging on the door, go to check, it's a cop with the dog. He wants in, so I tell him I can't open that door, only have a key for the back one. Meet him back there, he says the alarm is going off(I had slipped up and punched in a wrong number in the first code, and corrected it with a second attempt). He wants to know if there is anyone else there. I tell him no, just me, and that I am working on the bathroom. Then he asks if there is anyone holding me against my will. I chuckle and tell him not that I remember. He asks to come in, and I say, sure. At which point I hold the door for him while he and the dog walk PAST me into the darkened building's interior. I then FOLLOWED him around the place until he satisfied himself I was legit and alone. Anybody need a job? The local PD should be looking for a training officer, whether they are or not...
Re: how to make $40k quickly
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Re: how to make $40k quickly
From what I understand from my cousin and uncle who are both city police in my area, they do not have to have a specific speed on radar to write you a ticket. They are taught in basic to read the flow of traffic and understand how different speeds look. They can tell if you are seriously breaking the speed limit. Now, I am sure they can't tell the difference in less than 5-7 mph over, but they probably can 10 mph over. Just guessing though...
From what I understand from my cousin and uncle who are both city police in my area, they do not have to have a specific speed on radar to write you a ticket. They are taught in basic to read the flow of traffic and understand how different speeds look. They can tell if you are seriously breaking the speed limit. Now, I am sure they can't tell the difference in less than 5-7 mph over, but they probably can 10 mph over. Just guessing though...
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