Someone is offering me a decent deal on an unfired SPS tactical with 16.5 in barrel they bought in 2018. I have an H-S precision stock from a 700P collecting dust on the shelf. I figure I'd toss XMP trigger, replace it with an aftermarket trigger put it in the H-S precision stock. I read horror stories about Remington quality. But then, I head horror stories about Remington quality in 2012, when I got my 700P. And I have been pretty happy with that rifle for the last decade. Was Remington quality really that bad? What should I look for, when checking it out?
- Thread starter juha_teuvonnen
- Start date
Back in 2017 I had a part time gig @ a LGS. I sold a fellow a Remington 700AAC 300BLK. It had 7 twist on the box & the barrel.
Customer returned it 2 days later / said it was inaccurate & made oblong holes in paper ..
I tested it and sure enough ... keyholes...
I measured twist rate. It was a 10 twist..
Called Remington and once I got to talk to someone who actually knew what I was talking about ( and this took several people & quite some time ) I was told this " If You got one like that there are 4 more out there somewhere " ...
Was told that they did them in batches of 5 ..
Granite
Customer returned it 2 days later / said it was inaccurate & made oblong holes in paper ..
I tested it and sure enough ... keyholes...
I measured twist rate. It was a 10 twist..
Called Remington and once I got to talk to someone who actually knew what I was talking about ( and this took several people & quite some time ) I was told this " If You got one like that there are 4 more out there somewhere " ...
Was told that they did them in batches of 5 ..
Granite
No warranty support for pre-Remag guns. Crap shoot.
How serious are the problems? Are receivers and bolts ever a problem area? Since the price is so sweet, I can I just get a barrel blank and re-barrel and accurize it? I do own a South Bend heavy 10 metal lathe, a mini mill and a surface/tool and cutter grinder...
My newest 700 was a 2016 anniversary ADL in .243 that I got at Wal-Mart on clearance of all things. Paid a whopping $360 for it.
The bad: It fed like a Savage (rounds hang up in the mag box), the X-Mark Pro adjusted from 4lbs all the way down to 3.75lbs (non-existent change basically), bolt jeweling was literally spray painted on, plastic trigger guard, the finish looked like a kid with a can of Krylon got a hold if it...but I paid $360, so can I really bitch about it?
The good: Damn thing shot well. It was the only rifle that ever shot factory Winchester Power Point ammo under 1 MOA for me. It was about a minute rifle with factory Nosler stuff, and produced the typical WTF groups with Superformance.
I traded that rifle to my brother for a S&W 19-6. He seems to like it.
I probably wouldn't hesitate to buy one from that era if I were going to either beat the hell out if it, or use it as a base for a custom.
The bad: It fed like a Savage (rounds hang up in the mag box), the X-Mark Pro adjusted from 4lbs all the way down to 3.75lbs (non-existent change basically), bolt jeweling was literally spray painted on, plastic trigger guard, the finish looked like a kid with a can of Krylon got a hold if it...but I paid $360, so can I really bitch about it?
The good: Damn thing shot well. It was the only rifle that ever shot factory Winchester Power Point ammo under 1 MOA for me. It was about a minute rifle with factory Nosler stuff, and produced the typical WTF groups with Superformance.
I traded that rifle to my brother for a S&W 19-6. He seems to like it.
I probably wouldn't hesitate to buy one from that era if I were going to either beat the hell out if it, or use it as a base for a custom.
You got one that went down to 4lbs? Of the two I had, one went down to about 5.5lbs and the other got down to about 3.5-6lbs depending on how long you waited to shoot after you cycled the action.
I purchased a new 700 last year. Issue is the receiver is not milled correctly, or the tapped scope mounts hole are off. Only wasy to use scope is to adjust the windage almost full left adjustment to center on target. I contacted the new Remarms, and was basically told have a good day, we cannot help you with the prior Remington guns. So I have a action for a paper weight.
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sounds like it's time to send it to LRI
Who is LRI?
GUNSMITHING SERVICES: 8-40 Optic Base Threads for Remington M700 and Winchester M70
A nagging side effect of production grade receivers is the tendency for certain features to be machined slightly out of position. The 8-40 optic base hole upgrade is intended to resolve this issue. By aligning the receiver bore to an axis on the milling center, we are able to correct position...
www.longriflesinc.com
It came at 4lbs. Try as I may, it only went down to 3.75. It was not awe inspiring...but back to that $360 price tag.
Couple of years ago I got a close out 700ADL in . 223 for $200 at the local WalMart, after I got whatever they coat the inside of the barrel with out and a used Timney 510 it is a great $275 truck gun. I say buy it if it is cheap enough.
I have one from that era in .30-06 that shoots pretty good with a new trigger and stock. Fit and finish aren't great but it's a hunting rifle
My cousin picked up a Walmart closeout adl last year in 270. Watched his 13 year old son shoot about a 1" group with it last weekend.
I've got a 700 vls, 26" sendero contour, brown laminate stock, probably 10-12 era rifle. Never could really get it down under .75moa.
Took it to my local smith and the chamber was about .003 out of round. After disassembly we found several more issues that kind of counteracted each other. The bolt lugs weren't really square but the receiver was out of whack about the same in the opposite direction. The recoil lug was thicker on one side than the other but the face of the action wasn't square and it was in favor of the jacked up recoil lug.
When it all stacked up it fit together okay but it wasn't right.
It's a crapshoot. If its a good deal buy it. If nothing else it's a good donor.
I've got a 700 vls, 26" sendero contour, brown laminate stock, probably 10-12 era rifle. Never could really get it down under .75moa.
Took it to my local smith and the chamber was about .003 out of round. After disassembly we found several more issues that kind of counteracted each other. The bolt lugs weren't really square but the receiver was out of whack about the same in the opposite direction. The recoil lug was thicker on one side than the other but the face of the action wasn't square and it was in favor of the jacked up recoil lug.
When it all stacked up it fit together okay but it wasn't right.
It's a crapshoot. If its a good deal buy it. If nothing else it's a good donor.
Considering they went bankrupt and dissolved, I wouldn't consider their issues "overblown"
You won big
Myself and a friend each picked up a 16.5" 223 SPS Tactical when there was a $100 rebate. I think that it was 2016. The goal was to learn how to do a barrel swap, true the action, etc on his lathe, but they both shot 5/8" groups with 69 grain match loads. The only mods we made were to put his in a Magpul stock and we tuned the triggers down to 3 lbs.
The same friend bought an 223 5R in 2012 that shot terrible. He ended up putting a Bartlein on it and it is now a consistent .3" gun.
I ended up putting my SPS in an old LTR stock and take it out for fun once in a while.
The same friend bought an 223 5R in 2012 that shot terrible. He ended up putting a Bartlein on it and it is now a consistent .3" gun.
I ended up putting my SPS in an old LTR stock and take it out for fun once in a while.
I owned a Rem700 that would not shoot any match ammo better than 6” at 200 yards.
I contacted Remington and even though it was a 700P they said they will only warranty it if it shoots worse than FIVE MOA.
This was circa 2012 and a lot has changed since then but I’ll never buy another one. My issue certainly wasn’t overblown. I believe I still have the email correspondence with them. What a joke.
Shitty management + shitty workforce + shitty tooling and equipment + shitty process control = shitty Model 700s
Not sure why you're downplaying how fucked up they (both the company and its products) were.
At one time they knew how to turn out a quality product. The world changed and competition, along with bolt guns losing ground to ARs, started eroding their business so they cut corners.
I put the blame on management. They could have kept on making a quality product that was relevant to the market but somebody thought that selling to Walmart was a good idea.
We're discussing the quality of rifles made during a very small time period in which the company was undergoing major negative events. Not every fucking rifle ever made by Remington.
Blaming management is always so easy. Having worked in manufacturing for nearly 30 years, the answer is almost never that simple.
The ones I've worked with serial number prefix "RR" have all been very straight. I have one that shot very well as a factory rifle. When I first rebarreled it all I did was lap the lugs, replace the recoil lug and it shot extremely well. The next rebarrel I trued the action face just for the hell of it; it might have been .001" out at most.
Asking $600, I suspect I can get it for less.
I tend to agree. Anything more than $500 and I would go with a custom action and build from there.
JFC stop going full retard fanboy
I work in manufacturing as well
Who bought the machines and hired the employees? Who is in charge of marketing?
I'm really not here to argue a point but in this this case it was a company that was known for purchasing other companies and sucking the profit out of them. If they had invested for the long haul then they would have had a chance but they want their returns to start flowing in 2-3 years.
I got a 16" 223 sps tactical during that time and Im happy with it. I got it with the intention to replace everything over time so the only thing that remains is the action but I paid 500 for the whole rifle and I think it was a great first platform. If you are going to swap triggers and stocks right off the bat regardless I think youll be pleased with it.
I think the rr models are just fine. Sure the primary extraction doesnt kick in until about halfway through its area of engagement but its never failed to extract so I dont consider it an actual problem.
I think the rr models are just fine. Sure the primary extraction doesnt kick in until about halfway through its area of engagement but its never failed to extract so I dont consider it an actual problem.
Most of the issues stem from incorrect geometry on the bolt handle. This results in poor primary extraction. I have a rifle like this. It shoots very well just could become an issue with a hot , hard to extract load. The problem is easily remedied by outfits such as LRI. The x mark trigger sucked. Easily fixed with one of many aftermarket triggers.
Well, yeah...asshole private equity guys stripped that company bare and loaded it with debt. I believe that there was zero investment in tooling/machines...or whatever. You certainly know that stuff better than I but I would think that the tooling they used for hammer forging their barrels was just plain worn out and they sure as hell weren't investing any money in updating stuff.
I have a 700 5R SS Gen 2 (got to love these idiot long names) w 20" barrel. 2019 vintage that I bought to hunt eastern whitetail. It shoots ok for deer out to 200 yards which is the longest shot I would take at the places I have to hunt. I've thought about rebarreling it, sending to LRI to be all done up, but concluded that that its just not worth it.
I'm close to 70, don't have that many opportunity/places to hunt, and given that numb-nuts is busy tanking our economy (well, my retirement account! haha), I'll just stick with the 700 for this purpose. But, given what I know today vs then I would probably have gone in a different direction on this gun.
Whoever told you this was full of crap! 24 guns to a truck is the normal quantity of any particular model
Well I worked for Remington for 20 years and I was the 4th generation of my family to work there.
MANAGEMENT WAS THE PROBLEM!
From pressuring buyers to look for ever cheaper sources to production managers overriding legitimate quality concerns to put out numbers on paper..( Lean manufacturing with lack of lot control of kanban parts) were some of the problems. Some of the problems we saw went in cycles , Bolt handles brazed and then hit with water my an untrained worker filling in on the line..mis-cut feed lips because of tool changes and scope hole alignment are some that come to mind. the quaity techs and engineers were quick to find the problems, but production managers on up didnt give a shit at one point or another and let things go. The prevaiing thought from management was, well most peope arent going to notice the little things, and the ones that do, we just send them a replacement. This wasn't just the thought of the day for the 700 line but all production lines in Ilion.
Anyone interested in the story of Remington`s descent and demise has ample opportunity to read about Cerberus and Remington`s subsequent ownership by financial institutions that knew nothing about the firearms industry nor did they care for the company they owned. That`s a prescription for failure for ANY business. The entire sad saga should serve as lesson material in business schools throughout the nation in how a corporate investment firm can drive an American industrial icon to ruin.
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