Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

[viav13]

I just seen this in Yahoo news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1361

I saw that there was a different thread pertaining to this that talked about the group kill a cop her:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1722955&gonew=1#UNREAD

The reason I started a new thread is because I wanted to talk about this in a different context.

My immediate thoughts on this situation are, "I wonder if this is how it begins?"

I'm not saying they didn't try to target a cop or do illegal activities because I don't know the truth behind any of it. But I'm left to ponder that maybe this isn't all of the story. That maybe targeting this particular group was easy and a way to get the public on the sympathetic side of the government. One militia being bad, in the eyes of everyone else, is all militias being bad. Like if one Marine rapes a 12yr old, all Marines are rapist. Kind of a similar idea.

I guess what it feels to me is the old quote, "When they came for me, nobody was left to help."

I'm not a religious person, not in a militia, nor do I condone terror acts. But as a person who appreciates his right to the first two options, I think that those who didn't want people to have those rights, a slow targeting of militias and branding them "domestic terrorist" in the media, is a smart way to get rid of them.

And as for the acts of terror, I think the word "terrorist" gets thrown around a little lightly. Not calling any of them revolutionist or anything, but I'm left to wonder what our forefathers were called by the British.

Oh well, I guess only time will tell on this one. The "facts" arn't all out yet. And so far this is one group.

Guess we'll just have to see what happens.

Whats everyone's thoughts on this?

 

[kilo7788]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

One was practically in my inlaws back yard.

 

[jericho]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

lets call a spade a spade.We dont always have to play devils advocate. It seem (according to what is being fed to us) that they were up to no good. Rather get rid rid of them before they give all the well meaning " militias" a bad name.

 

[viav13]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jericho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lets call a spade a spade.We dont always have to play devils advocate. It seem (according to what is being fed to us) that they were up to no good. Rather get rid rid of them before they give all the well meaning " militias" a bad name. </div></div>

I'm not trying to play devils advocate. I'm trying to think critically about the situation and question the sources in which this information comes from. Like you said about the info "being fed to us" I'm just proposing that there could be another stake in it, or simply more to the story. The sad thing is we may never know the truth. Things like this tend to be buried or forgotten about. At least by the time the truth is known, its no longer a media hot topic.

If you see a man on TV that is suspect to a robbery, does this mean hes guilty and that the word suspect holds no meaning?

In this world, facts are what you can make other people believe. Remember, at one time it was a fact the earth was flat. And beliefs are far more devious and dangerous than facts. Usually the first thing a person hears on TV, or reads in a news paper, is what is taken as the word. Opinions are drawn with no more research into the matter than a paragraph or sound bite.

What defines a "well meaning militia" exactly? Personally I've always stayed away from militias for the same reason why I stay away from churches. I like the idea of them and believe they are necessary, but I don't always agree with everything laid out before me. There are always extremes on both end of the spectrum, neither of which are good IMO.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

However, whenever 'it' begins (whetever 'it' may actually turn out to be, if ever...), it's going to be some time before a sane consensus forms about either 'its' veracity, or 'its' true significance.

I don't want to discount interest in these things.

What I'd rather do is marshall my time and energy for such a time as when consequences of such an occurrance become significant enough to warrant a serious response. I believe it's far too easy and for too common a condition where folks are intently listening for the slightest mouse flatulence, stoking themselves up to the ragged edge, and exhausting their practical abiity to respond in a reasonable manner.

I wouldn't want to be at the epicenter of the big bang. Likewise the origination of 'it'. Nor would I want to be the first one in when and where the angst starts to vent.

Better to join in the ebb and flow, to add strength to significant numbers. My six decades and some have led me to understanding that some threats are real, and that we face some several or other of them constantly. They have also taught me a small degree of caution and restraint. Never enough, and never totally appropriate, but certainly close enough for government work.

What I'd prefer to do is to listen and watch my neighbors and colleagues for signs of dissatisfaction and unrest. When they get twigged, it's a good time for the less stable and complacent, such as myself, to stir and respond.

Until then, I tend to have to hair a trigger and too inappropriate a response. Rather better to let the cooler heads make the calls such as these.

Greg

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

good response from Greg, and I'd just like to add. It seems that no one has enough information about the case to make any real judgment call. My wife watches Nancy Grace and I hate that show. With every little tidbit of unsubstantiated information, she rants and raves and calls on every "expert" in the country to pontificate and speculate. The host and guests on Nancy Grace go for days on end about a subject with out an inkling of factual evidence. Let's leave it to the pros on CNN and not do that here. We're smarter than that.

 

[drmarc]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

Pro's on CNN????

 

[medicjim]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ewoaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My wife watches Nancy Grace and I hate that show. With every little tidbit of unsubstantiated information, she rants and raves and calls on every "expert" in the country to pontificate and speculate. The host and guests on Nancy Grace go for days on end about a subject with out an inkling of factual evidence. Let's leave it to the pros on CNN and not do that here. We're smarter than that. </div></div>

I personally know a key player involved in that show....they very deliberately play to EXACTLY the audience you suggest they play to. The entire show is designed to hype and play on that 'sensational appeal' hook. As I understand it, the entire cast, including Nancy, do not take themselves seriously. When they covered a missing mom in my AO, the only person they could get to speak on the show is the local showboat ahole... we all had a GREAT time mocking him and pissing on everything he said, they even spun the interview to bring him to a line of answers we predicted he would bite on, much to the delight and howls of the entire group. I pity the audience that is actually captivated by that transparent bs...but it does sell advertising and they do make a mint doing it. PT Barnum had something to say on the subject.

Nancy Grace is just one shade closer to grey than the rest of the for profit news products offered via mainstream media. If you believe what they offer up, you deserve the consequences.

I have absolutely no tolerance for folks targeting our law enforcement...but we probably need to look at sources outside the mainstream press or the folks that brought you Ruby Ridge and Waco when trying to garner facts.

 

[Cheese]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

None of this BS makes sense.
If it is ever spewed on this site it should be reported to Frank immediately for banning and forwarding to the appropriate authorities.

 

[Bushmaster7]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

I know what is being reported by the media and the feds in terms of their motives and plans. If indeed that is the case then the actions to stop those plans in their tracks are clearly justified. But it is strange to me that not a single shot was apparently fired by this well trained militant militia, and the timing is perfect in terms of shifting the emphasis from international terrorism to domestic which is something Napolitano and Holder have been preaching for some time now. The same thing happened under Clinton/Reno/Holder the first time around and the result was Al-Qaeda and 9/11. I think we need to be justifiably skeptical about what actually happened here to bring a 'small army' down on this group until all the facts are in IMHO.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"> <span style="font-size: 14pt"> <span style="font-style: italic">If you do not read a newspaper you are ill informed, however, if you do read a newspaper you are Misinformed. </span>

--Mark Twain </span> </span>

 

[cav has been]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agenc

Well articulated response Greg, thanks!
My question; What distinguishes a local band of wannabee bad-assed operators from a militia? Does a gathering of two or more persons possibly discussing armament, tactics, supplies, or whatever constitute a militia? If so then war stories could be on the endangered list.
My understanding is that anytime two or more communicate or plan to commit any crime it is an illegal act ie conspiracy. The local sheriffs dept. is probably capable of handling the arrests. I guess that wouldn't be newsworthy enough though. JMNHO!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agenc

I believe in finding consensus. Nothing wrong with being able and willing to respond to a genuine threat. I just don't want to squander my attention, strengths, and resources chasing around after Chicken Little. Maybe if I had them to an excess, but...

I used to watch O'Reilly, and some friends can't tear themselves away from Glenn Beck. Personally, I think they, and those friends, would do well if somebody introduced them to Decaf.

There's enough actually wrong in this world without having to go around peeking under the rocks to find more.

What gets me going is hearing my Grandkiddos spouting chapter and verse in my own home about purely partisan politico-speak psycho-babble they've had crammed into their minds by the educational system.

It takes a lot of work to provide them with reasonable alternatives upon which to base their views and their lives. That's their time being wasted twice; on misdirection, and again on redirection.

It's almost enough to make me think about going to school board meetings and maybe even running for a seat. Right now, there may be no better time for it. With school resources being at their current ebb, it's maybe time to speak out about some of the crap those meager resources are being allocated to, to fund some bubblehead's cherished core values.

Greg

 

[sgj2025]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agenc

Healthcare reform passed, now its back to gun control.Dems got to november to soften up the American public.

just thinking outloud

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agenc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sgj2025</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Healthcare reform passed, now its back to gun control.Dems got to november to soften up the American public.

just thinking outloud </div></div>

People believe conspiracies, over simpler likely answers > People get so worked up about the conspiracy they can't live with it and decide to do something retarded and hurt a bunch of people > People get arrested > Other people believe the first cycle was a conspiracy > AD INFINITUM

http://www.freep.com/article/20100331/NEWS06/100331050/For-Hutaree--Web-rumor-stoked-anger-at-Obama

lol'd when I read this, as I've seen so many of these types of posts here

Web rumors will be the death of us all.

Fastest way to incite a renewed interest in gun control by the sheep is a bunch of religious domestic whack jobs killing a bunch of innocent people.

As gun owners it's our responsibility to police our own. If someone at the range had steered these whackjobs to the light maybe they wouldn't all be learning the joys of cell mates in the klink right now.

 

[jericho]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: viav13</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jericho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lets call a spade a spade.We dont always have to play devils advocate. It seem (according to what is being fed to us) that they were up to no good. Rather get rid rid of them before they give all the well meaning " militias" a bad name. </div></div>

I'm not trying to play devils advocate. I'm trying to think critically about the situation and question the sources in which this information comes from. Like you said about the info "being fed to us" I'm just proposing that there could be another stake in it, or simply more to the story. The sad thing is we may never know the truth. Things like this tend to be buried or forgotten about. At least by the time the truth is known, its no longer a media hot topic.

If you see a man on TV that is suspect to a robbery, does this mean hes guilty and that the word suspect holds no meaning?

In this world, facts are what you can make other people believe. Remember, at one time it was a fact the earth was flat. And beliefs are far more devious and dangerous than facts. Usually the first thing a person hears on TV, or reads in a news paper, is what is taken as the word. Opinions are drawn with no more research into the matter than a paragraph or sound bite.

What defines a "well meaning militia" exactly? Personally I've always stayed away from militias for the same reason why I stay away from churches. I like the idea of them and believe they are necessary, but I don't always agree with everything laid out before me. There are always extremes on both end of the spectrum, neither of which are good IMO. </div></div>

Well said,duly noted and agreed.

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

My only question about it is, this "group", boy do I use that term loosely, has had to have been around for a while. Why is it that they only drag these knuckleheads out when it suits the Dems agenda. I'm not say conspiracy, just saying. We've got Eco- terrorist burning car dealerships, spike trees, destroying logging equipment. when do we drag them through the national news and brand them all Left wind Dems? If what was put out is correct, these folks elevators didn't go past the basement. Their commitment to any cause would be also suspect to me as they turned around an when HOME from a rain storm? Some real committed souls there? The friggin' media is whipping this up to cover for the Health Care LAW, to get it off Joe Citizens mind. The more I read on this LAW the more I compare it to a pig sty. Only difference is you can get upwind of the pig sty. I'm not saying these people were not crazies, a jury will decide that. I AM saying the Media is making it a big story that really if you look at it, is really small potatoes in the grand scheme of things going on. What effects the vast majority of American more? These knuckleheads or the Health Care Law that was past? Just thinking out loud here folks, sorry for the rant

 

[ubet]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robot Doc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My only question about it is, this "group", boy do I use that term loosely, has had to have been around for a while. Why is it that they only drag these knuckleheads out when it suits the Dems agenda. I'm not say conspiracy, just saying. We've got Eco- terrorist burning car dealerships, spike trees, destroying logging equipment. when do we drag them through the national news and brand them all Left wind Dems? If what was put out is correct, these folks elevators didn't go past the basement. Their commitment to any cause would be also suspect to me as they turned around an when HOME from a rain storm? Some real committed souls there? The friggin' media is whipping this up to cover for the Health Care LAW, to get it off Joe Citizens mind. The more I read on this LAW the more I compare it to a pig sty. Only difference is you can get upwind of the pig sty. I'm not saying these people were not crazies, a jury will decide that. I AM saying the Media is making it a big story that really if you look at it, is really small potatoes in the grand scheme of things going on. What effects the vast majority of American more? These knuckleheads or the Health Care Law that was past? Just thinking out loud here folks, sorry for the rant
</div></div>

Ding ding ding, winner winner chicken dinner, you hit it 100% square on that one!

 

[viav13]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agencies

I was watching CNN yesterday and this story came on.

They were talking about the people of the group entering there -not guilty- pleas. Well the way it came off to me, is CNN is starting to sound like us a bit. Talking how "no laws were really broken everything they were doing was in there legal right(owning weapons, creating militia)." When they tried to interview the lawyer on behalf of the government he sounded like he had no idea what he was going to do.

The governments undercover investigator that uncovered this is not going to testify and therefore a lot of the presented evidence doesn't have a leg.

Like a lot of us have been talking about, this sounds fishy. And I don't think anyone is really falling for it.

 

[BugSniper]

Re: Hutaree militia taken down by Government agenc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's almost enough to make me think about going to school board meetings and maybe even running for a seat. Right now, there may be no better time for it. With school resources being at their current ebb, it's maybe time to speak out about some of the crap those meager resources are being allocated to, to fund some bubblehead's cherished core values.

Greg </div></div>

To that end, I think that board meetings are way too late. My dad only half jokingly has discussed founding the MyFamilyName School of Math and Science for Wayward Boys. Short of that he will probably teach middle school in his "retirement". The public doesn't need anyone like you whining at meetings, we need you to be there as a teacher, inspiring minds before they get rotted by teachers like your grandkids'.

We need people that don't so much teach math, but make children want to learn math. At one time, being a skilled mathematician garnered fame. Kids now don't even know the stories of the guys that invented the math they learn, let alone want to emulate any of them.

How do people take over a decade of science and not know how to make oils, alochols, acids, or bases?

We have planned parenthood classes, but nobody is taught to start a fire, hunt, or grow food. How do you keep your baby warm when Snowmaggedon kills your power for a week if you can't start a fire? Oh wait, I forgot, that's not your job, that's mom and dad's job because you still live with them.

Whether you get a district to drop or not drop something doesn't fix that the thing they are best at, from my view at least, is taking children obsessed with asking why and turning them into uninterested, self-assured, and entitled morons without basic logic skills. They crush the inquisitive spirit entirely even in the subjects they do best with. Seriously, if your kid loves something you despise and you can't make him leave it alone, ask the school to teach a class on it and enroll him.

I want to know where your kids are in this situation. It seems you would've taught them right. How did they let their kids stay undeveloped enough to be subject to the open slantedness in schools today? I'd be pretty mad in your shoes.