HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
- Thread starter sscoyote
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Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
I don't believe I have seen any "match" HV ammo. So the charges and rim thickness will probably not be on the same par as Sub Sonic match ammo.
Apples to oranges comparison.
I don't believe I have seen any "match" HV ammo. So the charges and rim thickness will probably not be on the same par as Sub Sonic match ammo.
Apples to oranges comparison.
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
I haven't been able to group HV rounds very well, even at 50. I will admit, I haven't tried any higher quality ammunition than Remington Thunderbolt (I had some left over from a borrowed .22). Standard velocity and subsonics have been kind to me as a new "precision" shooter. I've been shooting CCI Standard Velocity and Remington Subsonics, and for the most part they can shoot about as well as I do right now. With the Remington Subs, I've had 3 non-fires out of 85 rounds. No non-fires from CCI though, and I'm able to shoot less than 1.5" at 50. I don't really think that's bad for only having shot about 300 rounds after being introduced to the world of precision shooting. The groups tighten a little more every time, and I learn a little more every time I shoot.
I haven't been able to group HV rounds very well, even at 50. I will admit, I haven't tried any higher quality ammunition than Remington Thunderbolt (I had some left over from a borrowed .22). Standard velocity and subsonics have been kind to me as a new "precision" shooter. I've been shooting CCI Standard Velocity and Remington Subsonics, and for the most part they can shoot about as well as I do right now. With the Remington Subs, I've had 3 non-fires out of 85 rounds. No non-fires from CCI though, and I'm able to shoot less than 1.5" at 50. I don't really think that's bad for only having shot about 300 rounds after being introduced to the world of precision shooting. The groups tighten a little more every time, and I learn a little more every time I shoot.
G
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Guest
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
CCI Standard Velocity is good ammo, but the CCI Green Tag is better in everything I own.
Aguila makes a 60gr 22lr sub load that shoots well for me also. Caution, if you only have a 16 twist or slower these will not shoot most of the time, w/o key holes.
CCI Standard Velocity is good ammo, but the CCI Green Tag is better in everything I own.
Aguila makes a 60gr 22lr sub load that shoots well for me also. Caution, if you only have a 16 twist or slower these will not shoot most of the time, w/o key holes.
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
As a general rule standard and subsonic ammo is more accurate... but rules don't always prove to be true as some rifles shoot better with HV ammo... those exceptions don't tend to be target or even varmit 22's...
I get get good results with RWS subsonic ammo... glad a hoarded it years ago...
As a general rule standard and subsonic ammo is more accurate... but rules don't always prove to be true as some rifles shoot better with HV ammo... those exceptions don't tend to be target or even varmit 22's...
I get get good results with RWS subsonic ammo... glad a hoarded it years ago...
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
The answer to the OP question is NO (not always)!
I have an Annie that will shoot subsonic Wolf ME into the high .1's to mid .2's at 50 yards and HV Federal AE into .3-.4" at 50.
The Wolf will outshoot the Fed. out to around 125 yards, both ammo's are pretty much tied between 125-200 or so, and the Fed. beats it from there on out.
The subsonic transition is somewhere around 40-60 yards with normal HV ammo.
Every gun is different, try as many different kinds as you can.
Here's an old post of mine with some HV groups out to 400 yards....
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...245#Post1116245
Wolf discussion...
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...763#Post1111763
The answer to the OP question is NO (not always)!
I have an Annie that will shoot subsonic Wolf ME into the high .1's to mid .2's at 50 yards and HV Federal AE into .3-.4" at 50.
The Wolf will outshoot the Fed. out to around 125 yards, both ammo's are pretty much tied between 125-200 or so, and the Fed. beats it from there on out.
The subsonic transition is somewhere around 40-60 yards with normal HV ammo.
Every gun is different, try as many different kinds as you can.
Here's an old post of mine with some HV groups out to 400 yards....
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...245#Post1116245
Wolf discussion...
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...763#Post1111763
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
I'm running an older Mossberg 144LSB with 27 inch barrel.
At 50 yards it runs Wolf ME into single holes. At 100 yards the Wolf will stay on a 14X14 paper but that's it.
Contradictory to conventional wisdom, the rifle shoots 36 grain Remington HV stuff into an inch at 100 yards. I have no explaination for this but I'm ok with it
Still looking for a good subsonic load, lots more work to be done.
I'm running an older Mossberg 144LSB with 27 inch barrel.
At 50 yards it runs Wolf ME into single holes. At 100 yards the Wolf will stay on a 14X14 paper but that's it.
Contradictory to conventional wisdom, the rifle shoots 36 grain Remington HV stuff into an inch at 100 yards. I have no explaination for this but I'm ok with it
Still looking for a good subsonic load, lots more work to be done.
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
I get great accuracy using high velocity Fiocchi rounds, the other high velocity performed just as poorly as the subsonics at 200yds. Tried eley,aguila,cci green tag, winchester, federal,etc.
I get great accuracy using high velocity Fiocchi rounds, the other high velocity performed just as poorly as the subsonics at 200yds. Tried eley,aguila,cci green tag, winchester, federal,etc.
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
I had remington ss that was crap. Very dirty and not accurate at all. Lots of powder residue.
I had remington ss that was crap. Very dirty and not accurate at all. Lots of powder residue.
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
Wolf target match is what mine likes. far more accurate than any HV I have ever shot
Wolf target match is what mine likes. far more accurate than any HV I have ever shot
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
NO remington .22lr ammo is worth a damn. I shoot agulia SV and SS, but still shoot better with CCI SV (haven't shot any wolf, sk+, lupau, or eley other than sport)
the sss 60gr rounds have been crap for accuracy for me...it's so weird when i see people say it shoots good...so, it's gotta just be my rifles that don't like it. i haven't shot any for groups out of my new savage mk2, so maybe i'll pickup a few boxes and see how it likes it. i know my 10/22 and 522 and mosquito HATED the stuff lol.
NO remington .22lr ammo is worth a damn. I shoot agulia SV and SS, but still shoot better with CCI SV (haven't shot any wolf, sk+, lupau, or eley other than sport)
the sss 60gr rounds have been crap for accuracy for me...it's so weird when i see people say it shoots good...so, it's gotta just be my rifles that don't like it. i haven't shot any for groups out of my new savage mk2, so maybe i'll pickup a few boxes and see how it likes it. i know my 10/22 and 522 and mosquito HATED the stuff lol.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NO remington .22lr ammo is worth a damn. I shoot agulia SV and SS, but still shoot better with CCI SV (haven't shot any wolf, sk+, lupau, or eley other than sport)
the sss 60gr rounds have been crap for accuracy for me...it's so weird when i see people say it shoots good...so, it's gotta just be my rifles that don't like it. i haven't shot any for groups out of my new savage mk2, so maybe i'll pickup a few boxes and see how it likes it. i know my 10/22 and 522 and mosquito HATED the stuff lol. </div></div>
While I'll agree that presant day Remington 22 lr ammo has issues, I've still some 1978 (loaded) 22 lr Remington that runs with anything loaded presant day.
The 60 gr Agulia is just like any weapon throwing heavys you need the correct twist to spin them up. I don't shoot the 60's in anything less that a 10,... but a 9 is better yet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NO remington .22lr ammo is worth a damn. I shoot agulia SV and SS, but still shoot better with CCI SV (haven't shot any wolf, sk+, lupau, or eley other than sport)
the sss 60gr rounds have been crap for accuracy for me...it's so weird when i see people say it shoots good...so, it's gotta just be my rifles that don't like it. i haven't shot any for groups out of my new savage mk2, so maybe i'll pickup a few boxes and see how it likes it. i know my 10/22 and 522 and mosquito HATED the stuff lol. </div></div>
While I'll agree that presant day Remington 22 lr ammo has issues, I've still some 1978 (loaded) 22 lr Remington that runs with anything loaded presant day.
The 60 gr Agulia is just like any weapon throwing heavys you need the correct twist to spin them up. I don't shoot the 60's in anything less that a 10,... but a 9 is better yet.
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
My research suggests that standard velocity ammo finishes burning after travelling about 16" to 18" down the barrel. It further suggests that in longer barrrels, it may actually slow down somewhat as it travels beyond that point.
Logically, this suggests that some <span style="text-decoration: line-through">SS</span> supersonic loads may not be, or may be less likely to be, truly <span style="text-decoration: line-through">SS</span> supersonic in significantly longer barrels.
...or not..., FWIW...
Greg
My research suggests that standard velocity ammo finishes burning after travelling about 16" to 18" down the barrel. It further suggests that in longer barrrels, it may actually slow down somewhat as it travels beyond that point.
Logically, this suggests that some <span style="text-decoration: line-through">SS</span> supersonic loads may not be, or may be less likely to be, truly <span style="text-decoration: line-through">SS</span> supersonic in significantly longer barrels.
...or not..., FWIW...
Greg
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My research suggests that standard velocity ammo finishes burning after travelling about 16" to 18" down the barrel. It further suggests that in longer barrrels, it may actually slow down somewhat as it travels beyond that point.
Logically, this suggests that some SS loads may not be, or may be less likely to be, truly SS in significantly longer barrels.
...or not..., FWIW...
Greg </div></div>
I have to say that I'm confused here. It seems like you say that Standard Velocity bullets slow down in longer barrels, but SubSonics (which wouldn't be loaded even as hot as SV?) would be faster than SS velocity in longer barrels? Did you mean that SS may not be truly SS in significantly shorter barrels? Or am I just not awake yet this morning?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My research suggests that standard velocity ammo finishes burning after travelling about 16" to 18" down the barrel. It further suggests that in longer barrrels, it may actually slow down somewhat as it travels beyond that point.
Logically, this suggests that some SS loads may not be, or may be less likely to be, truly SS in significantly longer barrels.
...or not..., FWIW...
Greg </div></div>
I have to say that I'm confused here. It seems like you say that Standard Velocity bullets slow down in longer barrels, but SubSonics (which wouldn't be loaded even as hot as SV?) would be faster than SS velocity in longer barrels? Did you mean that SS may not be truly SS in significantly shorter barrels? Or am I just not awake yet this morning?
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My research suggests that standard velocity ammo finishes burning after travelling about 16" to 18" down the barrel. It further suggests that in longer barrrels, it may actually slow down somewhat as it travels beyond that point.
Logically, this suggests that some SS loads may not be, or may be less likely to be, truly SS in significantly longer barrels.
...or not..., FWIW...
Greg </div></div>
I have to say that I'm confused here. It seems like you say that Standard Velocity bullets slow down in longer barrels, but SubSonics (which wouldn't be loaded even as hot as SV?) would be faster than SS velocity in longer barrels? Did you mean that SS may not be truly SS in significantly shorter barrels? Or am I just not awake yet this morning?</div></div>
I'm confused with you, longer barrel = more velocity. Except for subsonic; I've heard that too low a velocity can get stuck in the longer barrels...squib load?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My research suggests that standard velocity ammo finishes burning after travelling about 16" to 18" down the barrel. It further suggests that in longer barrrels, it may actually slow down somewhat as it travels beyond that point.
Logically, this suggests that some SS loads may not be, or may be less likely to be, truly SS in significantly longer barrels.
...or not..., FWIW...
Greg </div></div>
I have to say that I'm confused here. It seems like you say that Standard Velocity bullets slow down in longer barrels, but SubSonics (which wouldn't be loaded even as hot as SV?) would be faster than SS velocity in longer barrels? Did you mean that SS may not be truly SS in significantly shorter barrels? Or am I just not awake yet this morning?</div></div>
I'm confused with you, longer barrel = more velocity. Except for subsonic; I've heard that too low a velocity can get stuck in the longer barrels...squib load?
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
I altered my post to clarify my meaning.
..and dangit, I need more coffee this morning, too...
I altered my post to clarify my meaning.
..and dangit, I need more coffee this morning, too...
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GCMxVeGeTa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm confused with you, longer barrel = more velocity. Except for subsonic; I've heard that too low a velocity can get stuck in the longer barrels...squib load? </div></div>
in a .22lr....longer than 16" will lower velocity from barrel friction/drag
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GCMxVeGeTa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm confused with you, longer barrel = more velocity. Except for subsonic; I've heard that too low a velocity can get stuck in the longer barrels...squib load? </div></div>
in a .22lr....longer than 16" will lower velocity from barrel friction/drag
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
It can be a good thing... keeps the match ammo subsonic down to a lower temperature.
It can be a good thing... keeps the match ammo subsonic down to a lower temperature.
Re: HV vs. subsonic for 100-200 yds.
The idea behind a longer barrel increasing velocity is that the powder is still burning and has more time to act on the bullet before the bullet exits that barrel. So, if the info above is correct, then the powder is no longer burning and now the rifling is adding drag with no additional thrust to counter the drag. This would "slow" the bullet.
Can you show some data and how much the velocity is effected? This is some neat ballistics theory and I want more!
Also, if that is true then why would the subsonic be more accurate?
The idea behind a longer barrel increasing velocity is that the powder is still burning and has more time to act on the bullet before the bullet exits that barrel. So, if the info above is correct, then the powder is no longer burning and now the rifling is adding drag with no additional thrust to counter the drag. This would "slow" the bullet.
Can you show some data and how much the velocity is effected? This is some neat ballistics theory and I want more!
Also, if that is true then why would the subsonic be more accurate?
