First night out was last night, correct me if I am wrong: wind (mirage) is visible at night - correct?
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Night Vision I’m seeing wind - correct?
- Thread starter Mike_Honcho
- Start date
Good question. Mirage needs a heat source, but there are some at night - heated building with poorly-insulated roof, vehicle with motor running, or still hot from recent operation. You'll need a light source near or aligned with the aiming point. I haven't seen mirage through night vision equipment, but I haven't looked for it. I don't think NV has the resolution to enable this. Now I'll have to stay up after dark, and look for something hot, to check this out.
So.....aside from looking for physical moving wind indicators, any tips or thoughts?
Also - how do I get a distance if my LRF does not have an NV setting, so as it stick it in front of a 14?
TIA
Also - how do I get a distance if my LRF does not have an NV setting, so as it stick it in front of a 14?
TIA
Range at night is tricky. You need some sort of LRF where the laser is converged with something you have a reference point to like a reticle on a spotting scope or the reticle of your weapon, etc.
I'm thinking the translation between your PVS infront of your eye, looking through the LRF is probably not going to work or be accurate let alone are you going to be able to see much of anything at distance.
The best 2 ways I've used for night time shooting is to have a guy on your spotter with a LRF lined up with the spotter reticle (line up thesame way you would with an IR laser), have a Radius unit on your rifle or reticle range the target and have a quick reference cheat sheet ready to go with both range and dope for the shot.
If I'm shooting coyotes I have a few measurements like the height from the top of back to ground, top of back to brisket, etc and have a cheat sheet made ahead of time for that measurement and what the MIL reading of that measurement equals in range and DOPE. This lets me settle on the target, quickly range, hold/adjust and engage within seconds.
This is also how its done a lot of the times for anything, as using the LRF emits an IR laser that screams 'here I am' to anyone with NV gear that may be looking.
pretty sure youre seeing ghosts......well known that ghosts are visible in the IR spectrum. im surprised this isnt mentioned more often when buying nods.
A good yet ghetto way to range at night is this little method I’ve used for years.
Have your i2 of choice on your helmet. Have a hand held LRF in hand. (I do it with a Leica 1600b). Hold it out to the side and hold down the fire button on the LRF to achive scan mode. When the laser hits what your wanting to range, let off the button and hold it to your eye and see how far it was.
No, it won’t range a yote in the middle of a flat 400 acre pasture but yes it will range that tree line that the hogs are rooting by. Most of the vectronix guys can’t do this because I’m pretty sure all of them use 1550nm lasers. Or close to that. I2 can’t pick them up.
Jay
Have your i2 of choice on your helmet. Have a hand held LRF in hand. (I do it with a Leica 1600b). Hold it out to the side and hold down the fire button on the LRF to achive scan mode. When the laser hits what your wanting to range, let off the button and hold it to your eye and see how far it was.
No, it won’t range a yote in the middle of a flat 400 acre pasture but yes it will range that tree line that the hogs are rooting by. Most of the vectronix guys can’t do this because I’m pretty sure all of them use 1550nm lasers. Or close to that. I2 can’t pick them up.
Jay
The answer is yes...if your running some decent NVG setup then yes you can pic up mirage at night pretty easily. It takes awhile pick up on but it's there and once you know what to look for its super easy to find. In addition to mirage, if your running a strong IR illuminator you can splash dust particles and other stuff floating around. This gives you an amazing reference point as far as what the wind is actually doing on your gun target line. If you'd ask me to have to make a cold bore shot with the choice of day or night I'd honestly rather shoot at night, at least out to 700-800m. Mirage/wind and trace is easier to see with good quality optics.
As for ranging at night, TheGerman hit the best two methods I've seen.
Get a Radius. You just watch the dot flash on whatever you're attempting to range and look at the screen.
Before I got one I'd either go in before dark to create a range card using a LRF or guess. A couple times I was able to half ass a reading at night by having someone on glass with a clip on basically walk the laser onto the desired target, this is a very tedious process and mostly unsuccessful. The other option is some good old fashioned milling which I think has become a lost art.
Radius is your huckleberry.
rudy is correct...you can absolutely see mirage at night in the right conditions.
i made a ghetto fab night lrf set up once from a leica 1600 mounted in solid mount cradle they make for them. i bolted a section of pic rail to the bottom and put a dbal laser on the rail. i simply co witnessed the laser to to the lrf laser pulse or aim point. i would simply use the ir laser on the dbal to point at shit and fire the lrf. worked albeit it was ghetto.
but as has been said...find a radius and be happy.
i made a ghetto fab night lrf set up once from a leica 1600 mounted in solid mount cradle they make for them. i bolted a section of pic rail to the bottom and put a dbal laser on the rail. i simply co witnessed the laser to to the lrf laser pulse or aim point. i would simply use the ir laser on the dbal to point at shit and fire the lrf. worked albeit it was ghetto.
but as has been said...find a radius and be happy.
Radius is the way to go
Interesting that you can't see the Vextronix beam. Wonder if that was a .mil requirement.
Interesting that you can't see the Vextronix beam. Wonder if that was a .mil requirement.
OK, so could be ghosts, awesome....I’m already alone, ‘bout 10 miles off pavement, deep in the forest - and now you tell me about the ghosts.
I was ambitious last night and got to thinking I was gonna go try my hand at 800 after going 5x5 at 500 across a different draw the night before.....however a storm was rolling in...bending tall timber in the draw I was to shoot across, didn’t even set a target.....500 with a .300 Win felt like cheating.
Thanks for the confirmation on wind - it moved and behaved like mirage in the light / beam. Thank you for the ranging workarounds.
Everything is just a little more difficult at night, but NV is amazing, can't see shit 10 feet away, but you’re clanging steel in the distance.
What a hoot.
ETA:
Weather tonight on site looks like 60% chance of rain, about 40 degrees, and wind will hopefully be down around 10 - 15. It is a fun / funky spot to shoot with multiple terrain features that each can have an impact on the wind - like water flowing around rocks in a stream. The draw acts like a funnel and I am shooting across the top of it where it can be most fickle at 800. It takes @ hour to get into position......may as well go see how well it resolves in 15% moon and rain.
I was ambitious last night and got to thinking I was gonna go try my hand at 800 after going 5x5 at 500 across a different draw the night before.....however a storm was rolling in...bending tall timber in the draw I was to shoot across, didn’t even set a target.....500 with a .300 Win felt like cheating.
Thanks for the confirmation on wind - it moved and behaved like mirage in the light / beam. Thank you for the ranging workarounds.
Everything is just a little more difficult at night, but NV is amazing, can't see shit 10 feet away, but you’re clanging steel in the distance.
What a hoot.
ETA:
Weather tonight on site looks like 60% chance of rain, about 40 degrees, and wind will hopefully be down around 10 - 15. It is a fun / funky spot to shoot with multiple terrain features that each can have an impact on the wind - like water flowing around rocks in a stream. The draw acts like a funnel and I am shooting across the top of it where it can be most fickle at 800. It takes @ hour to get into position......may as well go see how well it resolves in 15% moon and rain.
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As luck would have it the Kestrel took a dump tonight. It was snowing while I was shooting so I guessed at the temp and DA, and used an Impact Data Adaptive Quick Card for an old load on a unchronoed barrel that is 2" longer. Apparently I could have used a 1/10 MIL or so more. Thanks to the snow, there was no mystery to the wind, call was 1 MIL. 5 for 5 at 800, snowing, no moon, this PVS 30 is just phenomenal. Where can I get NV chem lights (that'd help finding the target initially). FWIW - AXMC, .300 WM, SRT Mag Shadow, S&B 5-25x56, PVS 30, DBAL A2, Berger 210 VLD, scope was set at 8x.
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Tonight, same spot, 28 degrees, patchy overcast, and no moon. I miked my 1st, and strung the other 4. Shot this on 8x again.
I will have to look for mirage now in NODs. Seen in thermal and it's really interesting. Once you notice the distortion, you can focus on some interim distance (not the target) and make the mirage waves sharp. Super cool, and if I was good at reading wind, it would be useful info also. I'd love to see a bullet trace, but I never see even tracer, fireworks, etc. through thermals so I think the refresh is too slow even on good ones or... something.
Really ghetto way to range at night: I generally keep the square pattern generator on the front of my laser. The square spreads as you go further away, and gives a sense of distance from that. Not sure, then drive the square shape across the ground to the target to see how far it is by "walking" there. It sorta works.
Really ghetto way to range at night: I generally keep the square pattern generator on the front of my laser. The square spreads as you go further away, and gives a sense of distance from that. Not sure, then drive the square shape across the ground to the target to see how far it is by "walking" there. It sorta works.
For seeing trace through NODs you really want an illuminator to pick up on the displacement. Plus with BTHPs (or any flat based projectile) you'll get the IR flood to reflect off the back of a bullet. You can literally watch your bullet fly all the way into your target. With thermals you need some high optics to catch the bullet in flight. The FLIR HISS series is absolutely mind blowing in therms of resolution and clarity, I mean you can see the bullet in flight and see the thermal signature the bullet leaves as it passes through paper/cardboard/steel. Of course the phrase mind blowing can also be applied to the price tag of a HISS, Lol.
As far as using a squre pattern generator you might be on to something at least with rough ranging. I remember using them on the old PEQ2As back in the day. If you could map out what the square subtend to at say 100y/m you could then use the angular deviation agaisnt targets of a know size. Again I suspect your ranging capability would be rough and some what dependent on energy output, ambient conditions, and background. For something like pig hunting out to say 400-500y/m I bet it could provide a quick flash range that will get you close enough.
