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I built original m40

Welcome sir!
I vagly remember that thread on the M40 forum, unfortunately the forum along with all of its vast information has disappeared.
@pmclaine was also on the M40 forum, he may want to see this...
DW
 
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Its unfortunate that the M40 forum is gone, Any information you can post here with details of the rifles you built will be greatly appreciated!
DW
 
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I somehow remember that the original "M40" prototype had a five digit serial number, vs. the "200-thousand" serial numbers of the original batch of R700/M40's
 
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I remember your posting on M40 rifle Smiley.

This is one of the Chuck MaWhinney over run rifles built in the custom shop, perhaps your son did some work on it.....

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Smiley it is an honor to meet you! So you worked at the Remington Custom shop in the 60's?

One Question I would have is this, did you have any understanding of who you were actually building the M40's for? What I mean by this is, were you building M40's for other organizations besides the Marines? If you were building them for other organizations, were they built any differently than the Marine rifles?

Thank you so much sir!
 
One Question I would have is this, did you have any understanding of who you were actually building the M40's for? What I mean by this is, were you building M40's for other organizations besides the Marines? If you were building them for other organizations, were they built any differently than the Marine rifles?

I’ll let Smiley comment, but the procurement history provides some info that you might find interesting. Below is what the Remington archives reflected re M40 sales to the US govt circa 1966-1969. As for different variations, I understand the 1966 M40 drawing was updated in 1968 and 1969, so the later M40s for the Navy and Air Force had subtle differences compared to the original 1966-67 USMC rifles. (different safety, trigger, bolt, bolt shroud, and a 7-digit serial number starting at 6.2 million, etc). The one mystery order was the 105 rifles ordered in 1969 by the Boston Procurement Office, as the end user is not known. That said, if I had to speculate, the gov't contract reference "DAAF03" suggests to me that the Air Force was likely the end user. (The 1966 order out of same procurement office for 700 rifles was clearly the original USMC order).
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Per the former Remington Defense Sales Mgr, both the SSA M40s (2005-6) and later Chuck Mawhinney commemorative M40s were both based on the latest M40 gov’t drawings, which were dated 1969. That’s all I know.
 
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Mr Smiley,

Have you had an opportunity to podcasts ? If not, this is an opportunity missed. Discussing not only your perception and knowledge of the M40 work, but general topics regarding custom rifle making at Remington in what is arguably its hey day. I’d watch hours of that over the trash that gets out out from most podcasters.
 
Hey Smiley, The M40rifle Forum was small and ended up being dissolved by its owner but this website is not likely to go anywhere and it gets way more traffic. I have the original text saved from your old post and will add it below. I do not have that awesome black and white picture of you working the shop on the M40's though, If you or your son could please add it again that would complete this thread again!
 
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M40 - by the guy that built #1 -- and -- whose son built the USMC M40 Reproductions (@Smiley mountain )
12-20-2017, 09:02 PM

First I have to give a little history to connect to the M40.
I was employed at Remington in 1963, first in production and then in 1964-65(?) moved to the research department as a custom gunsmith. Contrary to what the book says, the M40 was not originally produced in the "Custom Shop", which was an offshoot of our department at a later date. It was first built in what was known at the time as the "Research and Development Department" , which was a nearly new, self contained engineering/machine/production shop under Mike Walker, We had all the personnel and machines to design, build firearms and later bullets. We could do all phases from start to finish, including design, metal, woodworking, assembly and testing operations. Our job was to build experimental and prototype arms, and put the engineers ideas into steel and wood. We also built the "Custom C Grade 700's" (my primary job), and on the other side of the room, the 40x target rifles. I believe the 700 C's and 40x's were to help support the department.
At first there was about 4-5 machinists one of which was my father (barrelmaker/machine setter) who was the first employee in the department, two gunsmiths including myself, building 700 C's, and two building 40x's in addition to the bosses/engineers in other areas.

In late 65 or early 66 a couple engineers came to my bench with some rough shaped 700 stocks and asked me to build a stock for a prototype rifle. It was to use a 40x barreled action with a shortened barrel on a 700 stock. We set up a vertical milling machine to widen the barrel channels while one of the machinists shortened the barrel. I took one to my bench, installed an aluminum buttplate and finished shaping and bedding it. Over the next couple days I finished it with linseed oil, assembled it, mounted a scope and Voiola the first M40 was born and ready for testing. It was really no big deal. Just off the shelf (R&D) components put together in a different configuration. I'm almost positive that it had the standard factory bluing on the first couple we built. The other gunsmith Leon and myself, then built several more with Parkerized finish to military specs, for testing by the military When they ordered several hundred, we started building them but couldn't keep up with the 700C grade orders and the M40's, so they were shifted over to the 40x guys with extra help, then finally to what became the "Custom Shop."
I hope this has been informative and will try to answer any questions you may have, but don't forget it's right around 50 years since I have even seen an M40.
Smiley --


My son also built M40's in 2005-6

Here are his comments;

Here is the info on the ones I built. (About 80 myself) ---- The main difference was receivers with stripper clip modification cut (useless if you had the scope mounted) and special production run stocks. The rest of the parts were pretty much hand selected production parts. Same aluminum checkered buttplate, floorplate, etc..
Here's the link to the USMC M40 commemorative I built for the USMC Scout/Sniper Association, to be as close to originals as we could get. We built these late 2005/ early 2006.







The receivers and bolts and were all selected off the production line, fire controls for the 700C's were generally production line, for M40's and 40x's generally Timney and 2 oz on some target rifles, The barrels for all 40x, Custom 700's and M40's were all produced to close tolerances from bar stock bored, rifled, contoured, chambered and hand lapped right there in our department. M40 stocks were 700's specially selected, shaped and nearly finished on the factory production machinery. The 40x's received basically a production line finish. The 700C's were selected high grade wood and the barreled actions had a high polish (real early ones hand struck also), engine turned bolts (done by my wife at home and I still have the fixture), and hand checkered, sprayed or oil finished stocks as per customer instructions.
.
Now to the M40's. We built a few prototypes (1965??) for testing by the military which resulted in an order for (a few hundred ???) All the stocks were hand selected for strength and stability from the regular production run semi finished 700 stocks, with barrel channels opened up. The barreled actions were 40x made as stated above and Parkerized, hand bedded, assembled and scopes fitted. Other than the military connection and proudly helping the war effort, we just considered the M40 to be a 40x barrel on a 700 stock with a really ugly linseed oil finish.

As for the type 1 and 2, All that I had anything to do with would have been type 1 and I will use Majikani's image below to describe what I remember.
The shape of the stock looked like the slimmer one on the left but the shape of the cheekpiece and grooves in the front of the comb looked more like the one on the right. They were all touched up by the gunsmith that assembled them so all varied. Mine would not have been as rounded on the top of the for-end, but sloped back more and slightly flattened on the bottom.
The other Custom 700 gunsmith and myself built the first dozen or so rifles but got behind on our 700 C work, so they brought in another assembler from production and turned the M40 over to the 40x crew.
All 40x and M40's were targeted at 100 yards, with 3 five shot groups that were shipped with the gun and I don't remember the max allowable spread but was basically one larger hole. The 700C's were targeted the same but because of the light barrel, only the best group was sent (still all touching) if I remember correctly.
The best groups I ever saw while there was a 6mm 40x that had groups of .14, .16 and .18 That one went into the cabinet and became what was known as an employee grade. When they saw an order come in from someone we knew, we'd strongly suggest they take what was stashed in the back of the cabinet.
I hope this has answered some questions and if anyone has other questions I'll try to answer them.


Roy Marcot from the Remington Society interviewed me and some of the later employees about 4-5 years ago and was going to publish a book on the M40 but I haven't seen it come out yet.
 
I am the Smiley you're looking for. I tried to find the old m40rifles.com but found it no longer exists
I can absolutely verify I built the 1st one and several others afterwards. My son years later. also built later models.
Smiley
Smiley it is an honor to meet you! So you worked at the Remington Custom shop in the 60's?

One Question I would have is this, did you have any understanding of who you were actually building the M40's for? What I mean by this is, were you building M40's for other organizations besides the Marines? If you were building them for other organizations, were they built any differently than the Marine rifles?

Thank you so much sir!
The originals and most of the first order were Not built in the custom shop. The original 700 C grade and m4os were all built in R&D where I worked. The Custom Shop came some time after I left in 1968
 
I see you are still in Ilion.

How is the town doing with the plant closing?

Just what the northeast needs is another big empty factory turned into “artists lofts”.
 
In fla for winter. With the closing my son moved here permanently. He will post one photo from his phone not of us, but my father who worked there about 35 yrs, last several in R,&D where he was the first regular employee when they opened.

As far as plant closing thanks to our idiot state government which is controlled by about 5 or 6 heavily populated counties out voting the other 60 conservative counties, it will hurt but they'll probably survive. One of the major hopes is the fact that we have a very historic area and Cooperstown baseball hall of fame and museums not far away and the recently opened Erie canal trail becoming very popular. One of Remingtons main buildings was built on the Erie canal so they could load directly
onto the boats.
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In fla for winter. With the closing my son moved here permanently. He will post one photo from his phone not of us, but my father who worked there about 35 yrs, last several in R,&D where he was the first regular employee when they opened.

As far as plant closing thanks to our idiot state government which is controlled by about 5 or 6 heavily populated counties out voting the other 60 conservative counties, it will hurt but they'll probably survive. One of the major hopes is the fact that we have a very historic area and Cooperstown baseball hall of fame and museums not far away and the recently opened Erie canal trail becoming very popular. One of Remingtons main buildings was built on the Erie canal so they could load directly
onto the boats.View attachment 8309350
Massachusetts did the same to Smith and Wesson…..sad.
 
The one mystery order was the 105 rifles ordered in 1969 by the Boston Procurement Office, as the end user is not known. (The 1966 order out of same procurement office for 700 rifles was clearly the original USMC order).
I recall reading somewhere that by '69, only around half of the original 700 M40s were still in serviceable condition or even in the hands of the USMC. My tentative vote would be for replacement rifles, perhaps for supply to foreign militaries or federal agencies. After all, the UK and Aussies bought AR15s/M16s early on and it was the Cold War. We sent folks all sorts of fun things to shoot commies with back then.
 
Did the Air Force have M40s or something similar? I read an article about M24 developement and it talked about aquiring M40 style rifles from Air Force security forces during development.
 
I recall reading somewhere that by '69, only around half of the original 700 M40s were still in serviceable condition or even in the hands of the USMC. My tentative vote would be for replacement rifles, perhaps for supply to foreign militaries or federal agencies. After all, the UK and Aussies bought AR15s/M16s early on and it was the Cold War. We sent folks all sorts of fun things to shoot commies with back then.
Sorry that was after I left there in 68. They were not even done with the 1st order when I left.
 
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Did the Air Force have M40s or something similar? I read an article about M24 developement and it talked about aquiring M40 style rifles from Air Force security forces during development.

An unissued USAF M40A1 was sold on the CMP site at auction three years ago, it brought just over $13,000 dollars, new in wrapper.

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Yes, that's my father Lloyd (Hoppi) Haponski working at the rifling machine. As you can see it does 2 barrels at the same time. It pushes a carbide plug ( button) about 3/4" - 1" long with the rifling cut slightly off parallel on it, so the plug turns slightly as it goes through the barrel putting the 1 in 8, 1 in 10 or whatever twist is required. You can see a truck of drilled, ready for rifling barrels beside the machine.
An inspector is checking out a truck load for of 40x's one of which is an international match rifle. We drilled, rifled, cut the threads, hand lapped and contured all the barrels for the 700 C grades, m40s and 40x's right there in R&D. The actions were then assembled and chambered before going to polish and color then back to us to fit stocks and testing.
These photos of rifling buttons are much longer than what we used, must be newer versions. I have a couple of those we actually used at home. When I get back there will try to find and post them.
 

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Mr Smiley,

Have you had an opportunity to podcasts ? If not, this is an opportunity missed. Discussing not only your perception and knowledge of the M40 work, but general topics regarding custom rifle making at Remington in what is arguably its hey day. I’d watch hours of that over the trash that gets out out from most podcasters.
Agreed, count me in! I'll subscribe immediately.
 
Smiley…your contributions here are much appreciated. Any information is welcome however you choose to share it.

We are keenly interested in hearing more…

Thank you.
 
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I am occasionally doing a few little pieces for the Remington facebook page but are more general things concerning the R & D dept where I worked, but could post here also if you'd like.
 
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I see there is a 40 x listed for auction in the CMP site, with a 1959 manufacturing date. From what your saying, this cant be a real 40x because it was made too early?
I used to work at Remington untill last month. I remember those boys in the custom shop making some damm fine rifles!
The best perk about the job was we got a decent employee discount on them. If you made friends with them( a very nice bottle of scotch helped), you got some extra care in your order!
Damm miss that place. There were still pics posted on the walls of the glory days!
 
I see there is a 40 x listed for auction in the CMP site, with a 1959 manufacturing date. From what your saying, this cant be a real 40x because it was made too early?
I used to work at Remington untill last month. I remember those boys in the custom shop making some damm fine rifles!
The best perk about the job was we got a decent employee discount on them. If you made friends with them( a very nice bottle of scotch helped), you got some extra care in your order!
Damm miss that place. There were still pics posted on the walls of the glory days!
A 40x is not an M40
 
Correct, the M40X is not the M40 or it's variants, however, some may refer to the M40 variants (M40A1, M40A3, M40A4, M40A5, etc) as "M40x", which is different than an actual M40X rifle. Look closely in the previous posts and try to decide what context the "x" is being used.
 
Correct, the M40X is not the M40 or it's variants, however, some may refer to the M40 variants (M40A1, M40A3, M40A4, M40A5, etc) as "M40x", which is different than an actual M40X target rifle. Look closely in the previous posts and try to decide what context the "x" is being used.
The 40x he is referring to on the CMP is a 40x not any variant of the M40
 
read post 38 that I quoted. Just because it’s sold by the CMP does not automatically make it M40 related.
 
I see there is a 40 x listed for auction in the CMP site, with a 1959 manufacturing date. From what your saying, this cant be a real 40x because it was made too early?
I used to work at Remington untill last month. I remember those boys in the custom shop making some damm fine rifles!
The best perk about the job was we got a decent employee discount on them. If you made friends with them( a very nice bottle of scotch helped), you got some extra care in your order!
Damm miss that place. There were still pics posted on the walls of the glory days!
Although we built them in R&D where I worked, I built only 1 40x and that was for Gary Anderson 1968 Olympic champ who wanted custom stock modifications, I'm most sure the 40x was made in 22 rimfire for quite some time before 62 because I think my cousin bought one in the 50s. you could go to the Remington site and someone will know there.
 
My only contribution here is I had a early 40x, it was based more off the 722 style bolt handle and the tang was difference. Round bolt knobs were the easy indicators of the age. The later 40xs were base off the 700s and had the current bolt handle with the cut "checkering". I have heard some of the early production 40xs were built using the same machinery as the 37s. I am still in awe at how well those old 37s shoot with today's ammo.
 
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1962 - Mike Walkers Remington R&D Engineers

One thing I'd like to clear up in the very beginning; Most all people nowadays confuse R&D Custom rifles, with the later "Custom Shop" guns . R&D customs were almost exclusively C grade 700 rifles, 375 and 458 Safari rifles and a few F grades thrown in, but engraving was done in custom repair on those. This was many years before the Custom Shop, came into being.

Remington R&D had been around about forever and was on the second floor, uphill side of Hoefler ave, under direction of Sam Alvis.
Mike Walkers operation was bottom floor directly below.


From what I understood original R&D handled all jobs from arms and machine design, plant layout, etc, etc and testing which including destructive testing. One destructive test I saw the results of, would make a grown gun lover cry. A $2000 (1960s$) Holland and Holland double rifle blown sky high.
When they wanted something built, I guess they would have to rely on the tool room and custom repair to build it.
In the early 60's they thought it would be good to have an operation under their control, that could be partially self supporting by building target and custom rifles.
In 1962 the R.& D dept/shop was formed headed by Mike Walker, to design and build experimental, prototype and anything else the engineers could think of, plus projects for military/Govt.Contracts.

My father hoppy, was a machine setter and the first non salary person hired, then a couple machinists, a couple gunsmiths, Leon Johnson senior gunsmith, and myself, were hired to build the original C grade custom 700s, Safari rifles or anything else that needed a stock and a couple other guys built 40x target rifles.
We had all the equipment, machines and people to build anything they could dream up.
We did use the factory production receivers for both 700 and 40x rifles and in the beginning, we made all the barrels but later before I left, we used production barrels from the gfm machines for the 700s but contoured and finished them in R&D.
They had some good engineers already on staff and hired some new ones. Some good, some not so good.
When I first started they were working on a five shot semi auto grenade launcher. . They took some prototypes to somebody's camp on the lake for testing with dummy rounds for range, function etc. Results were good and we built some for testing by the military. There was never much said but rumor had it that a live round went off in magazine with several injured. . That pretty much put a squelch on that project. We also built the full auto shotguns model 7188 and m40 snipers for Nam.
Most all the engineers were ok but one exception comes to mind. There was an empty bench next to mine that the engineers would sometimes use. One new engineer, with the highest degrees you could get in book learning from NE ivy league college, who I don't know had ever touched a rifle, was in and out a dozen times a day to that bench next to mine, with a 40x with 2 ounce fire control. After a couple days of this, I walked over to see what he was doing. He said he couldn't get it adjusted. I asked if he wanted me to try and in about 30 seconds had it working perfectly.
One major gripe we in the shop had with engineering, was the fact that $100,000 might be allotted for a project and they'd use up $95,000 of it setting around with feet up on desk, talking about it, sometimes drawing pictures or throwing paper airplanes and then finally bring it into the shop and want us to build it for $5,000.
Some other engineers were really sharp. One in particular was a fantastic designer and artist. I remember his drawings of the mini gun he was working on for the govt. looked like it was the real thing laying on his desk. GE was finally awarded that contract.
A couple engineering screw ups they probably rather that I didn't say, one was when the 788 was first built they were all proud of themselves, They'ed designed a good looking, multiple locking lug rifle, reasonable cost to build. When they decided to take it to the gallery and test it for accuracy, and brought it to me to mount a scope. They took it up sat down at the bench fired the first round, ejected that case which hit the scope and fell back into the magazine, as did most every round thereafter. There was some hasty redesign on the ejector. Another time was we had an old cut rifling machine that was huge and they wanted to use the space for something else. it was moved out onto the scrap loading platform and sold to the company that picked up the scrap at probably 3 cents a pound. Not long after they came up with a brilliant idea a building a barrel that necked down from the chamber to smaller diameter at the muzzle and also wanted to try a progressive twist rifle where it started out slow and tightened up at the muzzle. Well, you can't do that with button rifling. they had to buy that old machine back that was still sitting on the dock. I don't know if it's true but I heard that the company charged them $3,000 for it. My father was the only one in the company that new how to run it. Neither idea worked out well so they shipped the old machine back out again.
Mike went an an African Safari and after he got back, showed us his slides, trophys and tusks one afternoon in his his office. A couple months later one of the engineers went on Safari and came back and showed his slides in the office. Most of his trophies were bigger and better than Mike's, He had had a picture of a live elephant and said, He stood there looking through the scope at the elephant and elephant looking back at him and said, "it was like shooting a cow in a pasture and I couldn't pull the trigger. That engineer moved on to Weatherby shortly thereafter.
I saved the best for last, One of the top engineers we'll call Mack, had a favorite saying if something wasn't going right or we weren't going fast enough, he would say "Are you on the ball"? one of the machinists we'll call George was turning something and having trouble with the lathe with Mack standing there impatiently waiting for the part and Mack said to George "are you on the ball"? and George said, "yes I am" and asked Mack, "are YOU on the ball ?" and Mack replied YES, to which George replied "Well, then swing right up and kiss my xxs" everyone within ear shot busted out laughing like crazy including Mack the engineer.
Smiley