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Advanced Marksmanship I CANT, and I want to stop
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stop canting the rifle to some degree that is.
How can I determine how much error is based upon this deviation of hold?
For instance; is 2 degress of cant = to 1/4 MOA, or is it range dependent, increasing in effect as range increases?
</div></div>
having one of these may help also.
http://www.usoptics.com/accD.php?recordID=BBL-350
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stop canting the rifle to some degree that is.
How can I determine how much error is based upon this deviation of hold?
For instance; is 2 degress of cant = to 1/4 MOA, or is it range dependent, increasing in effect as range increases?
</div></div>
having one of these may help also.
http://www.usoptics.com/accD.php?recordID=BBL-350
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
Thank you both for sound advice.
Thank you both for sound advice.
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
During offhand, bench, prone. all positions/holds?
The lack of proper/adequate stock cheek height (or too much height) and/or poor optic eye-relief can be a additional factor(s).
The forward sling point can also attribute if a off-hand sling hold is used.
It's much easier to correct prone and off-the-bench rifle cant with a external bubble level. Be conscience to ignore unreliable vertical planes or edges in the sight picture (ex: target edges, trees, fence posts, trucks, etc) as it is natural tendency to align the vertical cross hair to be parallel to what is visually perceived as "straight-up" vertical. Added: Trying to be perpendiculer to the ground is probably most common.
I questioned why more LR optics don't integrate a bubble level in the sight picture. The only one I ever knew of were the Springfield Armory branded scopes. Seemed a decent idea in utility.
During offhand, bench, prone. all positions/holds?
The lack of proper/adequate stock cheek height (or too much height) and/or poor optic eye-relief can be a additional factor(s).
The forward sling point can also attribute if a off-hand sling hold is used.
It's much easier to correct prone and off-the-bench rifle cant with a external bubble level. Be conscience to ignore unreliable vertical planes or edges in the sight picture (ex: target edges, trees, fence posts, trucks, etc) as it is natural tendency to align the vertical cross hair to be parallel to what is visually perceived as "straight-up" vertical. Added: Trying to be perpendiculer to the ground is probably most common.
I questioned why more LR optics don't integrate a bubble level in the sight picture. The only one I ever knew of were the Springfield Armory branded scopes. Seemed a decent idea in utility.
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">T2K Spirit level helps me the most
</div></div>
Where can one pick that up?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">T2K Spirit level helps me the most
Where can one pick that up?
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/T2K_ADD_ON_ITEMS-T2K_Anti_cant_indicator.html
http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/T2K_ADD_ON_ITEMS-T2K_Anti_cant_indicator.html
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/T2K_ADD_ON_ITEMS-T2K_Anti_cant_indicator.html</div></div>
Thanks!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/T2K_ADD_ON_ITEMS-T2K_Anti_cant_indicator.html</div></div>
Thanks!
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
I just bought a Deros Level Grouse. I haven't shot live rounds with it yet, but I have been dry firing with it. My problem is mainly figuring out how to line up my vertical post plumb.
If you cant naturally to one side or the other, it is fine. Just set up a plumb bob and align your vertical post so that it is 90 degrees to the ground and goes with your cant. I heard that David Tubb cants his rifle around 7 degrees. And my guess is that he could outshoot 99% of folks on this site. As long as your vertical post aligns with gravity, you should be fine.
Note that if you decide to go with canting the rifle, you can't use the feeler method to mount the scope. Also, if you get an anti-cant device, you will need to mount it directly to the scope unless you get a mount that cants to one side, which I don't recommend, but they make 'em.
I just bought a Deros Level Grouse. I haven't shot live rounds with it yet, but I have been dry firing with it. My problem is mainly figuring out how to line up my vertical post plumb.
If you cant naturally to one side or the other, it is fine. Just set up a plumb bob and align your vertical post so that it is 90 degrees to the ground and goes with your cant. I heard that David Tubb cants his rifle around 7 degrees. And my guess is that he could outshoot 99% of folks on this site. As long as your vertical post aligns with gravity, you should be fine.
Note that if you decide to go with canting the rifle, you can't use the feeler method to mount the scope. Also, if you get an anti-cant device, you will need to mount it directly to the scope unless you get a mount that cants to one side, which I don't recommend, but they make 'em.
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
Cant may need to be accepted for a muscularly relaxed position when the stock is fixed. Cant will change with position; and, it may be more prevalent in sitting than it is in standing or prone for a multitude of reasons. If the shooter is using more than one position and/or shooting at UKD targets, muscular relaxation may need to be sacrificed to square the gun, unless zeros have been calculated for every scenerio, which is not likely possible.
A three-way butt will eliminate sight cant, allowing for a square gun and a canted butt, but, may be out of place on a "tactical" rifle.
Cant may need to be accepted for a muscularly relaxed position when the stock is fixed. Cant will change with position; and, it may be more prevalent in sitting than it is in standing or prone for a multitude of reasons. If the shooter is using more than one position and/or shooting at UKD targets, muscular relaxation may need to be sacrificed to square the gun, unless zeros have been calculated for every scenerio, which is not likely possible.
A three-way butt will eliminate sight cant, allowing for a square gun and a canted butt, but, may be out of place on a "tactical" rifle.
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
CKA,
What do you use if you shoot support side?
CKA,
What do you use if you shoot support side?
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
I finally shot the Deros Level Grouse and I highly recommend it. A light comes on (green for left cant, red for right cant) to tell you when you are canted. You see it very clearly in your non-dominant eye and never have to take the focus off of the target or break your cheek weld. A very simple idea... I can't believe no one has though of it before.
I finally shot the Deros Level Grouse and I highly recommend it. A light comes on (green for left cant, red for right cant) to tell you when you are canted. You see it very clearly in your non-dominant eye and never have to take the focus off of the target or break your cheek weld. A very simple idea... I can't believe no one has though of it before.
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
+1 on the level grouse. when you shoot with both eyes open it looks like the little red and green light are actually in the scope. there are also diferent models that allow more or less degrees of deviation depending on your shooting discipline, eg. hunting or shooting benchrest
+1 on the level grouse. when you shoot with both eyes open it looks like the little red and green light are actually in the scope. there are also diferent models that allow more or less degrees of deviation depending on your shooting discipline, eg. hunting or shooting benchrest
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I heard that David Tubb cants his rifle around 7 degrees. And my guess is that he could outshoot 99% of folks on this site. </div></div>
There is an article by DT in the current issue of "Rifle Shooter" and he goes into how he intentionally cants the rifle in position. In the standing position it's very evident.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I heard that David Tubb cants his rifle around 7 degrees. And my guess is that he could outshoot 99% of folks on this site. </div></div>
There is an article by DT in the current issue of "Rifle Shooter" and he goes into how he intentionally cants the rifle in position. In the standing position it's very evident.
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CKA,
What do you use if you shoot support side? </div></div>
Sorry, I never saw your question. You just have to look over it to position and then get down behind it. That's were a podloc helps. It is easier than you would think since the level is far down and away from you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CKA,
What do you use if you shoot support side? </div></div>
Sorry, I never saw your question. You just have to look over it to position and then get down behind it. That's were a podloc helps. It is easier than you would think since the level is far down and away from you.
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
I've heard that David Tubb shoots with his rifle held at an angle. (Is there a real word like "canted?") Similarly, I was amazed at the Regional Matches hosted by one of the clubs where I am a member. The matches always bring out the best shooters and some drive long distances to attend.
I spend a lot of time around the firing line at those matches observing the shooters and can say that many of them use an angled rifle position.
I'm a fair shooter at 200, 300, 600 yards in Service Rifle and can say that I do not and will not Cant my rifle. In fact, I am very careful to keep my rifle vertical. I'll listen to any intelligent arguments but I see no benefit to the "cant" technique.
Flash
I've heard that David Tubb shoots with his rifle held at an angle. (Is there a real word like "canted?") Similarly, I was amazed at the Regional Matches hosted by one of the clubs where I am a member. The matches always bring out the best shooters and some drive long distances to attend.
I spend a lot of time around the firing line at those matches observing the shooters and can say that many of them use an angled rifle position.
I'm a fair shooter at 200, 300, 600 yards in Service Rifle and can say that I do not and will not Cant my rifle. In fact, I am very careful to keep my rifle vertical. I'll listen to any intelligent arguments but I see no benefit to the "cant" technique.
Flash
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
Tubb shoots highpower with his rifle canted - but the sights are vertical.
Also, as Sterling Shooter noted, you can shoot with the sights canted if you shoot only at a limited number of known-distance targets, because the cant can be compensated for in the sight setting, as long as the cant is consistent.
But that's not tactical shooting.
Tubb shoots highpower with his rifle canted - but the sights are vertical.
Also, as Sterling Shooter noted, you can shoot with the sights canted if you shoot only at a limited number of known-distance targets, because the cant can be compensated for in the sight setting, as long as the cant is consistent.
But that's not tactical shooting.
Re: I CANT, and I want to stop
If you're shooting KD and have dope, canting is more beneficial than forcing your body into contorsions (sp?) to get sight picture. In match shooting, it's all about balance and score. Bring the rifle to your face, not your face to the rifle.
If you're tactical, and you're relying on pure ballistic sheets to hit long range engagements, you don't want to cant. Canting with this type of shooting will certainly yield misses.
Pick your poison. If you're going for score on KD, you're much better off canting (if the need arises). If you're shooting bad guys, best to keep your verticals "vertical"...
If you're shooting KD and have dope, canting is more beneficial than forcing your body into contorsions (sp?) to get sight picture. In match shooting, it's all about balance and score. Bring the rifle to your face, not your face to the rifle.
If you're tactical, and you're relying on pure ballistic sheets to hit long range engagements, you don't want to cant. Canting with this type of shooting will certainly yield misses.
Pick your poison. If you're going for score on KD, you're much better off canting (if the need arises). If you're shooting bad guys, best to keep your verticals "vertical"...
