• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

  • Site updates coming next Wednesday at 8am CT!

    The site will be down for routine maintenance on Wednesday 6/5 starting at 8am CT. If you have any questions, please PM alexj-12!

I have a question about determining group size.

Gavin S.

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 29, 2010
173
0
59
Kentucky
How much does one subtract to determine what the size of a group is? This was shot with a .308, so do I subtract .308 from .695? Also, if I want my zero to be exact for 100yds, should do a down click or 2 on my 1/4 MOA turret or is that close enough? Thanks for the help. This was shot with a stock Rem 700 5R, BTW.

orig.jpg
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

.695 - .308 = .387" and yes, come down w/ elevation
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

Thanks. I appreciate the info.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

Kinda makes me wonder what the crap I was thinking replacing it with a $4500 .308win LOL.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigsky23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kinda makes me wonder what the crap I was thinking replacing it with a $4500 .308win LOL. </div></div>

lol... i almost hate to see those factory guns shoot that good;)

good shooting. and 1 click down should do ya.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

Good shooting. Mine did the same pretty consistently. What load is that?
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

LOL, for the same reason I will when the bug hits me. At least the buyers get good rifles when we go crazy.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mnshortdraw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good shooting. Mine did the same pretty consistently. What load is that? </div></div>

That is FGMM 168 SMKs. It was at an indoor 100 yd range in Crestwood, Ky called Open Range. Nice facility.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigsky23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kinda makes me wonder what the crap I was thinking replacing it with a $4500 .308win LOL. </div></div>

Thanks Wade. I appreciate you selling me this rifle. It's a beauty.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

Start handloading and watch the groups shrink. Wish there was an indoor 100 yd range here.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mnshortdraw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start handloading and watch the groups shrink. Wish there was an indoor 100 yd range here. </div></div>


I am thinking about doing that. I guess I need to read up and look for some good deals on the equipment.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

It looks to my eyes that the center of the group is about 1/2" off dead center. So perhaps 2 clicks. I'd try 1 click at a time to be sure.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

Heres a simple way... You have the digital caliper.

Close it all the way make sure it says 0.000

Open it to 0.308 and press the "zero" button.

Now measure your group and thats the CTC group size.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

Very nice shooting! Your other option is to measure the holes center to center. Depending on the kind of paper your targets are made of, the holes will often not be .308" in diameter, but smaller. In that case, measuring outside to outside and subtracting .308 will give you a smaller group size than it actually is. You can easily determine this by using your caliper to measure an isolated hole and see whether or not it's .308" (.3") in diameter. But for most, that method should be more than close enough that it really shouldn't matter.

The down side to measuring center to center is that you have to eyeball the centerpoints as best you can, so that is one possible source of error using that method. IMO, the bottom line is, measure the best you can and if it's off by 1/10", so be it. My aim is by far the limiting factor in my group sizes, not the method I use to measure, so I always round the numbers after measuring to the nearest 1/10" anyway.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

I agree on the accuracy of measuring being off a little. I'm just happy the rifle shoots better than I can.
grin.gif
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

One way I've found to easily measure is to xerox the target (adjusting contrast if you shoot light on black shoot-n-c or the like) then use a straightedge to draw horizontal and verticals through each, and measure between them, that way you can get relative horizontal vs. Vertical size, and a mm scale is more than sufficient for anything other than competition, record breaking, or bragging rights (0.04 MOA resolution at 100yd).
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size.

I have to say, I don't have any illusions that shooting a tight group from a bench indoors makes me a good shot. The more I read here the clearer that becomes.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigsky23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kinda makes me wonder what the crap I was thinking replacing it with a $4500 .308win LOL. </div></div>


My LTR shot a .26 once, but it wasn't me behind the trigger.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size

Actually, the correct way to determine group size is to measure the size of the hole and then subtract that number from the group size from edge to edge. You would think that the holes left by the bullet would be the bullet diameter, but not everyone measures that the same. When I measure a bullet hole on one of my targets, it comes in around .299, so if I subtract a bullet diameter, I am cheating by almost .1 an inch. That is quite a bit!

I have seen folks calculate negative group sizes before. This is how. Your best bet is On Target with a scanned target for honest group size. I find it is always a tad bigger than what I get with calipers.
 
Re: I have a question about determining group size

Unless you're shooting wadcutters, I suppose.
grin.gif