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I posted this before and deleted it but will repost it once again. (A short story of our "justice system").

LuckyDuck

Old Salt
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Nov 4, 2020
    3,114
    9,699
    Pennsylvania
    The last time I tried telling the story I got the expected responses and deleted it because I didn't think the conversation was going anywhere fruitful/beneficial. That said- I'm going to post it again and this time we'll just let the chips fall where they lay.

    Two years ago, I want to say it was two days after Thanksgiving, I took my sister-in-law to a local AHL hockey game. I took my sister-in-law because my wife really couldn't give two craps about hockey and my SIL had a beautiful bull nose terrier dying of cancer that weekend. (I understand there's always multiple sides to the story but this is just mine). So I took my SIL to the hockey game, we met at our apartment and between her & my wife the three of us downed 3 pizzas from Domino's drinking Coke.

    I drove my SIL to the local hockey game (I had free parking) and we met 2 friends of mine. At the hockey game (and the 'whole' hockey game I purchased two beers for each of us, one of which I knocked over with what I'll explain later). It's also likely important to note that my SIL also broke her ankle like 3 days prior to this. Anyway I purchased 4 beers (at an obscene price for each) and had to make two trips because they'd only sell 2 beers per transaction. During that time I also stopped at the pro shop and got some game memorabilia for her & my wife (hoodies & such) and of course I knocked over my 1st beer with that bag of crap I bought spilling half of it out. Since this was before the 1st period (and the fact that the beers were something like $14 a pop) I stuck with my one & a half while giving my SIL the other two I bought (the waters were also $4.50 a pop and I purchased 8 of those for us & the other two friends so do the math there).

    So in 3.5 hours or so I had 1.5 beers personally (really not that big of a deal) but remember my SIL has had a broken leg. So we had to get to the game early, drop her off at the handicap location, wait for the stadium to clear, then egress out of the stadium so I've easily got 4 hours into this endeavor (and was happy to do it) and still only 1.5 beers into the night.

    After we got her & everyone loaded up in my truck- we went to a local watering hold because they stayed open during game nights and usually ran specials for wings. They had something like a game special of 2 beers & wings and we each got that deal. She opted for the local IPA option (after all why not- she wasn't driving) and I went with the low alcohol/Coors light type of offering (because I was driving).

    Well I'm sure you can see where this story is going. I was pulled over shortly after leaving the bar (sober as a they come in my opinion and I'll add the military absolutely drilled this into my head not to fuck around with drinking and driving). Whelp- I made the "mistake" of being friendly and asking the police officer to clarify something (I've posted here already that in my best ear I lost over 30% of my hearing when we hit an IED) and as Stiffler would say- it was "on like donkey kong". I was put into handcuffs and whisked away to the local jail (fortunately my SIL was able to drive my truck with her broken leg) so I didn't have to pay a tow fee but things went on for two years and were nothing short of wild.

    You'll either believe me or not- I've got nothing to gain either way but I'll also acknowledge that there's of course two sides to every story as well. That being said. I know I don't have all the terminology correct but during the two year process I had a pre-arrangement/preliminary hearing and probably two others with similar names. And in each and every case there was a group of us and they dangled a 'carrot' called ARD which was some sort of diversionary program the commonwealth has here in PA so they could "get help" and complete the ARD program and have the DUI "sponged(?)" from their record ( think that's the "right" term.

    I was the ONLY one to say- fuck that I did nothing wrong I'm fighting this bitch. Each & every time and I was quite literally the only one to go to a bench trial. By this point the narrative of the prosecution read like a Michael Bay film- I was "swerving" almost "ran over a fire hydrant" failed to obey fellow car's "right of way". You'd think I was Ted Kennedy and they had it all on film. EVERY step of the way the prosecution did everything they could to make me feel like the worlds's biggest fuckup. But (I'm sure it's of no surprise to some folks here) but I can be a bit headstrong myself when it comes to my integrity and honor so it became a moral crusade.

    Fast forward- I'm at my bench trial and the DA is depicting me as the most despicable scum of the earth and that we're "lucky" I didn't "kill" somebody that night. Here's what about $10K and a lawyer got me- my defense attorney didn't rely on "tricks", "loopholes" or any of that kind of "nonsense". All they did was use the dash cam & body cam video to dispel all the accusations against me & everything in the police report is uncorroborated with the actual footage. I "wasn't" swerving, I yielded to at least two vehicles & perfectly 'obeyed' at least two traffic devices that night on "their" video prior to the stop.

    That's all my lawyer did- from no less than 4 camera angles (two body cams & two dash cams) showing that all the "reasons" I was stopped and "arrested" never existed per the video. I was driving perfectly, I wasn't slurring, I wasn't stumbling, I wasn't exhibiting one single "indicator" of being intoxicated other than refusing to stand on one leg (and explaining in clear/unslurred English that I was blown up by an IED and that jacked up my eardrums and I wasn't going to voluntarily stand on one leg because I knew my balance would be "off". That's "all" I did and was corroborated by FOUR different cameras. Captured on 3 of those cameras was the police officers bantering amongst themselves saying "fuck this guy" (direct quote). It went back to the (very green) DA who was expecting this to be a "slam dunk" case because DUI's are all but "give-me's" and they came back with (during what I think is called their "closing arguments") that "yeah" I "might" not have appeared intoxicated in those four cameras but "if" the judge looked really closely they'd see all the "indicators" of me being 'hammered drunk'. Oh- I should also ad that I hand jotted 52 pages (yes 52) on a legal pad of what happened that night.

    And here's the outcome of all that- two years of turmoil on me, the SIL dog's died of cancer the next month, just about EVERY 'supposed' infraction I "allegedly" did was abjectly proven as being nothing short of nonsense (did I mention based off of 4 cameras?) which essentially demonstrated that the entire police report/proceedings of that night were but a fabrication. Again- not my opinion- these jokers tried to ruin my life & career because "fuck this guy" (again on camera(s)) it absolutely proved without a shadow of a doubt that not one but TWO police reports were fabricated (and seemingly written as though it was a 'MadLib' if you're old enough to know what those are... essentially here's a script/fill in the blanks).

    Again, no "technicalities" or "nuances" the police had no grounds to pull me over, there wasn't a factual statement in their narratives in the police report and it caused me two years and just shy of ten thousand dollars in legal fees. And here's my "justice", I have four cameras proving/substantiating my story (as I'm telling it) was proven to be 'not guilty" but I'm still out thousands of dollars in legal fees, had to pay 'court costs' of $500 because I had a foglight out, and it's looking like I'm STILL going to need to spend an extra thousand in legal fees to get this bullcrap off of my record.

    Again- this is the "BEST CASE SCENARIO". Nobody "wins" DUI's because the cards are stacked against them if the police read the right words. I "won" because the two officers were caught red handed as lying bastards and when the judge looked at the ADA, as if saying in their gaze 'wtf are we doing here' all they could say is "well it's not egregious but if you look 'super close' you'll see he's showing signs of intoxication". They knew it was bullshit, the judge knew it was bullshit, my lawyer knew it was bullshit and the case was thrown out.

    BUT I'm still out almost $10K in legal fees that I can't recoup because the police have something called "qualified immunity" so as egregious as this case was I can't even sue them to recover my legal expenses. Not only that- but these same jokers are playing the same games and most folks are just going "roll over" and take the ARD and not "fight" the "man". like I did.

    My fellow Hide members- do with this story as you will. Call me a liar if you want (I've been called a lot of things here but a liar surprisingly is not one of them) or take the story for what it is- just an illustration of what "justice" looks like.

    This is the part I'll likely get myself in trouble here but I'm going to say it anyway. My background is military and many of my battle buddies ended up as LEO's. I'm talking the absolute "salt of the earth" type of people and even with my above experience I cannot think of better people as a whole or as LEO's. I really do mean that statement. If you EVER have to have a "run-in" with a police officer, I sincerely hope that you have it with someone like one of my close friends I'm talking about. These are NOT the kind of guys interested in meeting "quotas" or jamming anyone up- they just had enough of playing soldier/marine and doing the "combat" thing wanted to shift their focus to helping their fellow Americans directly.

    That said- god help you if you run into one of their "Farva's" because the 'system' will acknowledge they're in the wrong but still protect them after they took a Dremel to your corn hole and wallet.

    Humbly- this ain't right and it sure as shit isn't "justice". Believe me/my story or don't- I don't give a possum's ass either way. I know that I'm speaking sincerely and despite all the names I've been called here in the Pit- I still don't think I've been called a liar.

    -LD
     
    I did not read all that, but you seem drunk pretty much every time you post something.
    So I am with the cops on this one.
    I might not agree but I still respect your opinion here. To end this on a 'positive note', good on you for not putting me on your 'ignore' list. Perhaps we can find some common ground on another topic in the future.

    -LD
     
    Until you personally see the power of your government in the court of law, you don't hate them enough.
    Reckon that I don't disagree with you but... I'm not sure what your thoughts are on this particular discussion either (suppose that's ok if you want to leave it that way too)

    I was accused a week or two ago (full disclosure- and no I'm not going to mention the individual's name because I otherwise respect their other commentary, but feel it's worth noting I was accused of it) of being... I'll say unfavorable in how I speak about LEO personnel.

    I don't personally think that's accurate & personally like to think I'm amongst the more "moderate" types and at least try to refrain from the lingo used by others such as "uniform hangers" (although I do understand where that's coming from). Whether it's warranted though is another topic all together.

    I really cannot be any more sincere when I say that I have scores of friends that are in law enforcement and I would (and in some cases have) trusted them with my own life. They are truly the "salt of the earth" and (in my opinion) EVERYTHING one could ask for that position.

    BUT- and yes, this is a sir-mix-alot sized "BUTT" as good as these folks are that are my long time friends, and as good as the friends they made in that profession there's still a cohort of "others" that would give some pause (even those in the same profession). Call me out if you deem fit to do so but I really do think I've consistently been and continue to be otherwise partisan on the whole topic (at least to the best of my abilities). If I screwed up in that attempt- well I likely did it and let my own passion get in the way and call me out and I'll likely at least "own" it .

    That now being said- I hope I don't come across as "anti-LEO" either but I want to be very clear on my stance here. If there's a police department of 100 sworn officers and 85 (a la 85%) of them are like the friends I'm describing as being the absolute best possible officers a community could ask for, the kind of folks that'd run into a burning building- there's still 15 (15%) of that department that likely has no business in that vocation.

    And that's a bum standard for any profession in my opinion- 85 out of 100 could be the absolute best people on earth one could ever hope for.... BUT what about the other 15? I think many of us understands that that profession attracts folks from all walks of life and integrity (and I'd even argue that's ok) but the profession doesn't "weed those 'less desirable' employees" out but rather they're protected by "qualified immunity and give the "arguably" other 9 out of 10 a terrible name solely based off their profession."

    I don't get to use this term often so please permit me- this situation of 15 out of 100 is where I personally take "umbrage". Statistically they're but a blip on the proverbial radar screen but they "hog" all the news coverage and give the other 85 (as a percentage) an absolutely terrible reputation. And that shit isn't right, that shit isn't deserved but that's how many perceive the "system" and unfortunately I'm amongst the "many" these days. And that really causes me internal angst because I quite honestly know just how "GOOD" most of those folks are (again I mean that with the utmost sincerity) but holy crap- while I have the utmost respect for those 85 out of 100, I'm likely going to be a complete dick to any encounter with them moving forward (mainly because I frankly can't afford to shell out another 2 years and $10K for doing nothing wrong.

    I don't mean to get on a proverbial "soapbox" nor do I intend to cast figurative stones towards any particular member here (I know we have a lot of folks in the LEO profession). But this is "my" somewhat recent story and "my" experience with the "justice" system and I hope I'm being otherwise fair here but yeah- I'm angry and I'm jaded. And every day I now have to work on my personal feelings BECAUSE I know how great most of those folks are. Again- this is a sincere comment.

    But dang- if they don't have a minority protecting them from multiple layers of a legal "machine". I (again) can only speak for myself but how is my situation representative of a "functional" judicial system. I'm really trying to avoid otherwise sensational terms for any stakeholder here but.... surely the majority agrees (if they accept my story/my word for what it is) that this is bogus BUT also how it works.

    As much as I'd like to present myself as innocent as they come, I already mentioned that we do typically have a high LEO population here and I acknowledge that. Again- if someone thinks I'm some "internet blowhard" spouting nonsense here- that's your right. That being said- I also believe that much of the LEO community participants here align with the 85+% I'm actually trying to bring focus on and talk about. Let's see what they have to say- am I a liar or is this how it be?

    -LD
     
    I was taught by my Mom at five years old NEVER trust a cop. Coming up on 70 still the best advice ever given to me besides
    The only way two people can keep a secret is one has to be dead.
    I do hear you but it still bothers me (personally). I'm really not trying to over or undersell my friendships with folks that went into that profession but Odin as my witness- I've trusted them with my life before and I'd do it again and frankly believe that they're nothing short of the most amazing people that walk this earth. I really do mean that sincerely.

    BUT- there's that pocket of folks that frankly have no business in that profession, the friends I previously mentioned have even stronger opinions on them than I do (despite being personally burned) BUT (again) the 'system' is built upon these... 'characters" I'll say and while they likely are the absolute minority- damn if they don't garner ALL the media attention and depict that entire profession in the worst light. If that wasn't bad enough the system then protects them under the shield of "qualified immunity".

    I'm sure others have strong opinions of that one way or the other, and I do too for what it's worth, but... and this is a "baby got back" type of "butt" the pendulum has swung "too far" in my opinion. Mostly fantastic people in Law Enforcement but the minority is all we pick up on/recongize. Even I can understand that 'bad eggs' fall through th
    e cracks but damn- they've got to stop protecting them from egregious wrongs. It won't solve "everything" but it'd at least be be a step in the right direction (in my personal opinion at least).

    -LD
     
    I don't doubt for a second that that happened to you , although I've never had a bad experience with law enforcement, stories like yours are always in the back of my mind. I've dodged the bullet many times in my youth , but have never had a DUI. Once I rolled my truck after closing the bar my uncle owned , it was after 1am , I think I fell asleep, anyway when the local cop shows up he tells me I'll probably be going to jail , but it's not in his jurisdiction so 10 minutes later a female state trooper shows up , looks around for a few minutes then tells me it looks like the roads were slick and I just lost control , no ticket or anything never even asked if I'd been drinking , talk about good luck . Later I heard the trooper got fired for drinking on the job. Navajo Indian go figger.
     
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    I don't doubt for a second that that happened to you , although I've never had a bad experience with law enforcement, stories like yours are always in the back of my mind. I've dodged the bullet many times in my youth , but have never had a DUI. Once I rolled my truck after closing the bar my uncle owned , it was after 1am , I think I fell asleep, anyway when the local cop shows up he tells me I'll probably be going to jail , but it's not in his jurisdiction so 10 minutes later a female state trooper shows up , looks around for a few minutes then tells me it looks like the roads were slick and I just lost control , no ticket or anything never even asked if I'd been drinking , talk about good luck . Later I heard the trooper got fired for drinking on the job. Navajo Indian go figger.
    I'm truly not trying to misrepresent myself or my story and am trying to be upfront that "you're" only hearing one side and I'm clearly biased. But... I stand by my previous comment- no trickery, no "loopholes", whatever- the police report was written like a "fill in the blank" "mad lib" style report and "NOT. ONE. THING." I was accused off actually happened.

    Now I'm getting on a proverbial "soapbox" here- but had it not been for not one, not two but FOUR cameras corroborating my "story/narrative" the officer read the "right" script and I would have had my life ruined & he would have met his quota.

    This marks 2 times in my life where the government has actually and quantifiably acted in my best interest (far more than most can say). The first GREAT decision was purchasing the "up-armored" 1151 HMMVE's (I really would have been dead by now were it not for that decision) and now #2, body & dash cam footage. Here's my 'rub' with #2- "they" lied. "they" being not one but two police officers lied and concocted this entire narrative that I spent 2 years & and about $10K fighting and it all boiled down to... of all things... two body cameras and two dash cameras and from four different angles it proved without a question of a doubt that the past two years of accusations was based off of nonsense- it ruined my life, ruined my finances to the tune of around $10K and... AND... I freaking "won"?|

    Glad I'm wasn't "poor"(?) two years ago and maybe I should celebrate being a "poor" now because I "won"(?).

    Ladies and gentlemen- this is, without a filter, without a shadow of doubt, my personal experience in the "Judicial System".

    And I'll throw in one more 'nugget', while I felt like my world & career was falling apart and I was putting every nickel I had into my defense- the vast majority were "repeat offenders" and they couldn't give one nugget of a turd on what occurred that day.

    Again- call me a liar. I speak the truth, know I speak the truth and maybe this is something most people know but this experience rocked my fuckin' world. My ONLY mistake was "questioning the authority" of a Keystone Cop who was clearly violating the law themselves, called in 'back up' only to bring a bigger asshole into the mix and despite being on the "right" side of justice I'm still out something like $10K and I can't pursue reimbursement due to "qualified immunity"....

    It's literally on 4 f'n cameras that they didn't give a crap what they were doing, knew they'd get away with it, cost me almost $10K dollars... and I freakin "won" my case? what in the haberdashery is that shit?

    LD
     
    I do hear you but it still bothers me (personally). I'm really not trying to over or undersell my friendships with folks that went into that profession but Odin as my witness- I've trusted them with my life before and I'd do it again and frankly believe that they're nothing short of the most amazing people that walk this earth. I really do mean that sincerely.

    BUT- there's that pocket of folks that frankly have no business in that profession, the friends I previously mentioned have even stronger opinions on them than I do (despite being personally burned) BUT (again) the 'system' is built upon these... 'characters" I'll say and while they likely are the absolute minority- damn if they don't garner ALL the media attention and depict that entire profession in the worst light. If that wasn't bad enough the system then protects them under the shield of "qualified immunity".

    I'm sure others have strong opinions of that one way or the other, and I do too for what it's worth, but... and this is a "baby got back" type of "butt" the pendulum has swung "too far" in my opinion. Mostly fantastic people in Law Enforcement but the minority is all we pick up on/recongize. Even I can understand that 'bad eggs' fall through th
    e cracks but damn- they've got to stop protecting them from egregious wrongs. It won't solve "everything" but it'd at least be be a step in the right direction (in my personal opinion at least).

    -LD

    Thirty plus years ago I would agree with your statements for the overall police community. I also know that growing up in NY in the 60's and 70's that easily 25% of the police were on the take. I grew up in a well connected family and I remember police sitting at the table discussing these very things with family members. I also remember "crimes" which magically disappeared after a week or two. NY is a city that is ahead of the curve on somethings so I would factor that in.

    Now I believe the overall number IMO would be 50% and IMO that would be ALL govt. employees factored in. Just look around at most of the issues, attitudes of people who feel they are deserving of everything, common denominator govt. Also would include Democrat as that is most of the union govt. people.

    I always enjoy threads like this because it brings back a lot of memories that have been tucked away until someone brings them back up.
     
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    I'm truly not trying to misrepresent myself or my story and am trying to be upfront that "you're" only hearing one side and I'm clearly biased. But... I stand by my previous comment- no trickery, no "loopholes", whatever- the police report was written like a "fill in the blank" "mad lib" style report and "NOT. ONE. THING." I was accused off actually happened.

    Now I'm getting on a proverbial "soapbox" here- but had it not been for not one, not two but FOUR cameras corroborating my "story/narrative" the officer read the "right" script and I would have had my life ruined & he would have met his quota.

    This marks 2 times in my life where the government has actually and quantifiably acted in my best interest (far more than most can say). The first GREAT decision was purchasing the "up-armored" 1151 HMMVE's (I really would have been dead by now were it not for that decision) and now #2, body & dash cam footage. Here's my 'rub' with #2- "they" lied. "they" being not one but two police officers lied and concocted this entire narrative that I spent 2 years & and about $10K fighting and it all boiled down to... of all things... two body cameras and two dash cameras and from four different angles it proved without a question of a doubt that the past two years of accusations was based off of nonsense- it ruined my life, ruined my finances to the tune of around $10K and... AND... I freaking "won"?|

    Glad I'm wasn't "poor"(?) two years ago and maybe I should celebrate being a "poor" now because I "won"(?).

    Ladies and gentlemen- this is, without a filter, without a shadow of doubt, my personal experience in the "Judicial System".

    And I'll throw in one more 'nugget', while I felt like my world & career was falling apart and I was putting every nickel I had into my defense- the vast majority were "repeat offenders" and they couldn't give one nugget of a turd on what occurred that day.

    Again- call me a liar. I speak the truth, know I speak the truth and maybe this is something most people know but this experience rocked my fuckin' world. My ONLY mistake was "questioning the authority" of a Keystone Cop who was clearly violating the law themselves, called in 'back up' only to bring a bigger asshole into the mix and despite being on the "right" side of justice I'm still out something like $10K and I can't pursue reimbursement due to "qualified immunity"....

    It's literally on 4 f'n cameras that they didn't give a crap what they were doing, knew they'd get away with it, cost me almost $10K dollars... and I freakin "won" my case? what in the haberdashery is that shit?

    LD


    I have one which will show the complete opposite of what you're saying. This will give you an idea of the forces that are above what the police can do and who is really calling the shots.. I will keep it as short as possible to not bore anyone too much.

    My oldest brother was arrested for Grand Larceny on Christmas Eve in the mid 70's. Somewhere around 9PM that evening my Mom received a call in which she was informed that James was arrested and is in jail in Suffolk County. Mom hung up the phone and then proceeded to to call Mac also known as Apples to his friends in Brooklyn. Mac was a well connected, powerful atty.

    Mom stated to him, James has been arrested, he is being held in Suffolk County, First Precinct. James WILL BE HOME for Christmas breakfast. Now mind you this is about 9PM Christmas Eve. Mac proceeds to make some phone calls and makes all the arrangements to have a Judge, Bails bonds man and clerk at the court house that evening. He calls my Mom back and already knows she is going to have to post $500 bond to get him released. Mom calls a few family members and raises the $500 in cash.

    One of the cousins delivers the money to the courthouse later that evening and all the needed paperwork is done to get him released.
    James walked in the front door somewhere around 6am with fresh Italian from pastries Patsy's Bakery in Lindenhurst for Christmas breakfast.

    There is another whole story to the bail but this is enough for now.

    PS; Mac also known as Apples was because his last name was Macintosh.
     
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    For what it's worth- I appreciate you sharing your stories @ironpony52

    I reckon I'm just on a tear at the moment- In some ways "I get it" right? The police should absolutely have some form of protection for performing an otherwise thankless job. (and I do mean that sincerely).

    I wrote my last check for $500 yesterday and it (frankly) just chaps my ass. In what freakin' world does it makes sense to charge someone with a background such as mine and who never has had an issue with police with court costs of $500+ dollars?

    In what world can not one but two police officers go on an ego trip documented by four cameras and have a judge stop things to ask the DA what the heck we're doing there, AND I had to "pony up" the money for my defense and it was that blatant/egregious of nonsense that the ADA essentially argued in her closing statements... "yeah, well if you look closely he "might" have been intoxicated..."

    What in the literal fuck is that- I was accused of serving- the camera's proved that was a blatant (albeit convent) lie. The report says I almost ran over a poor fire hydrant when I pulled over (yet that little guy had never been safer) I was accused of "slurring" my words, "smelling" of alcohol and "stumbling" during the roadside test yet the cameras showed this was nothing other than an elaborate story of nonsense- not one single thing being corroborated on video, in fact at one point the fella even dropped his 'cheat sheet' and it was captured on 4 separate videos/angles that I pointed that out to him before he noticed.

    Two Police officers- two police reports, both reports being proven as complete fabrications (again- reference my previous comment about them playing 'mad-libs") using not one, two or three but four different camera's and I'm out almost $10K, two years of my life and the "justice system" says 'oh well, better luck next time' and "oh by the way you owe us $500 in 'court costs'"

    Yes I'm bitter as hell about this situation lately and 'yes" I think this is further to '"injustice" than "justice" and actually corroborated by four separate cameras that this was nothin more than ego trip and an example of the government's men collecting their fees.

    And yet- for some freakin' reason, we accept this as acceptable behavior/outcomes in our court system. Yep- the cameras caught these two lying up a storm and fabricating official reports but... "qualified immunity" am I right? "hahah, maybe they'll get ya next time but really- the bill is due now (I hope you aren't 'poor') because you're going to see a lot of "zero's" at the end of this number that you the deemed "innocent" party is still for some unknown reason liable for paying...
     
    And the PoPo jammed you up for two years, cost you 10k and they lied and laughed about it over beers and had zero consequences.
    John Q. Public = SUCKERS in their eyes.

    I agree with you on court costs, last ticket I received was about 12 years ago. I went to court and proved the radar detector he was using was being misused based on the manufacturers operations manual. I won and had to pay a little over a $100 in court costs to prove him wrong.

    The good thing was the prosecutor pled all his cases except mine. She said the officer had already left and offered me a sweetheart deal to get me to say yes. She explained to me how I was going to lose and it would cost me $500 in fines. I said no I am going to win and they had to call the officer and have him come back in after lunch to testify.
    So I screwed up his day off.
     
    IMG_2650.jpeg
     
    This is a fair question and I'm trying to also include @Buzzinga 's question as well (to be fair/transparent).

    The truth is- I initially wasn't told my "BAC" until further in the court proceedings. It was alleged as being well over .2 though (full disclosure the legal limit here in PA is .08).


    Again- honest enough question. My SIL drank twice as much as I did that night (not to make a 'lush' out of her) but something like 4 or 5 beers over more than 6 hours. Again- her leg was quite literally broken, neither one of us are 'booze hounds' and I in particular have a genetic apprehension to paying more than $10 for a single can of beer. But yep- I easily drank half of what she did (which wasn't much given the timeframe) and ate twice as much as she did (yummy Pizza Hut deals).

    Again fair question but my SIL was WELL below .08 (after no less than 3 attempts) and she drank almost twice as much as I did that evening but I was "alleged to have almost a quarter of my blood as been comprised of alcohol" None of us were "boozing" either for what it's worth- I think she had 4 drinks total in over 6 hours and two of which were "slightly" higher Alcohol contents (still less than 6%). and was perfectly sober on the something like 4th breathalyzer attempt they made. I however was claimed to be well over twice the legal limit (although I never actually saw it myself and despite me drinking half as much as my SIL who also ate half as much as I did before the game).

    I was in the military fella's I did't just wake up and take 'stupid pills' one day. I was the DD and I took that seriously (I still take that seriously). and I'm sorry but I'm just not going to apologize for drinking 3.5 beers over the course of 6+ hours while opting for the lowest alcohol content available (think Coors Light). I did every freakin thing right and two police officers in a small town of maybe 3 square miles turned me into their "white whale".

    I'll throw one other "card" into this discussion- your face/mugshot is then proudly displayed the next morning as evidence of our local "heroes" doing their job & is posted without any due process.... Don't believe me- google 'crimewatch PA'...You might be changing your 'tune' if you do.

    So just about $10k in legal expenses all said and done, defamation of character over 2 years, corroboration of no less than 4 cameras that the entire police report & charges was a fabrication, and for "winning" I got another bill this week for $500 in court costs.

    Believe me- don't believe me, I at least tried to be transparent in my experiences. But yep- I'm angry over it. I'm still tryin to provide mostly 'neutral' opinions on these matters and think I do a decent enough job despite everything but I really do try .

    Again- believe me & accept that's the way it is even if you do everything right or call me a liar and take the position that I 'deserved' all of this cost & aggravation.

    II
     
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    If your SIL was not driving, why was she given a breathalyzer? Let alone four?
    I was driving- my SIL was given three or four breathalyzers because the others didn't "work/register allegedly. She (quite literally) had a broken leg and only drove my truck (which she wasn't happy at all about) so it wasn't towed that night.

    -LD

    ETA: I hope that help clarify things.
     
    I’m wondering for what reason the officers chose to give her a breathalyzer?

    Edit: I’ve been the drunk passenger a few times when the designated driver was pulled over. The driver takes a quick breath test, which always reads all zeros and that’s it. They’ve never cared about the passengers, even the ones completely passed out in the backseat. And we definitely stunk of booze 😁
     
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    I read one post on this whole thread
    I skimmed it, here's what I gathered.

    Walls of text, details that are completely irrelevant to the story and nobody gives a fuck about, how dare they pull someone over for drinking and driving when they've been drinking and driving, walls of text, lawyers suck and cost too much but still got him off the hook so he really deserves a BJ and an eight ball, ignoring questions until repeated several times, blew a 0.20.

    Duck, you failed your family who depended on you to be the designated driver to keep them safe while they had a good time with adult beverages. That's the bottom line. DD doesn't mean to try and stay below the legal limit, it means to stay clean fucking sober and enjoy some tea and Gatorade while everyone else beers it up. It was your one fucking job, and you failed miserably at it.

    Grow the fuck up.
     
    I skimmed it, here's what I gathered.

    Walls of text, details that are completely irrelevant to the story and nobody gives a fuck about, how dare they pull someone over for drinking and driving when they've been drinking and driving, walls of text, lawyers suck and cost too much but still got him off the hook so he really deserves a BJ and an eight ball, ignoring questions until repeated several times, blew a 0.20.

    Duck, you failed your family who depended on you to be the designated driver to keep them safe while they had a good time with adult beverages. That's the bottom line. DD doesn't mean to try and stay below the legal limit, it means to stay clean fucking sober and enjoy some tea and Gatorade while everyone else beers it up. It was your one fucking job, and you failed miserably at it.

    Grow the fuck up.
    I’m fucked up for life because of a drunk driver who wasn’t charged do to their connections. Go fuck your self @LuckyDuck since I’m guessing you were the drunk driver.

    Hopefully if you get in a wreck since I’m sure you’ll do it again, you’ll be the only victim.
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    Stupid Cunt
     
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    these jokers tried to ruin my life & career because "fuck this guy" (again on camera(s)) it absolutely proved without a shadow of a doubt that not one but TWO police reports were fabricated
    Yeah. Some people don’t understand. A lot of things. Contempt of cop being one.

    Back the blue until it happens to you.


    Applies to the 13/80s too.

    Hard to be an expert of something when you have no experience
     
    Until you personally see the power of your government in the court of law, you don't hate them enough.
    Wait till you find out about “confidential “ reports / files they have on you. Filled with literal lies. And the reports say you’re anti government. Gee wonder why. Ahh and pictures of you on their walls

    They also can’t grasp being pro small limited gov is not the same as anti
     
    I gotta ask.
    These salt of the earth battle buddies work with the shit bags, have cookouts with them, family get togethers with them and they don't have a problem with them being shit bags. How do you smooth that over in your brain?






    I don't need an answer. I knew plenty of guys that when SHTF I knew they'd be there but I wouldn't break bread with them or pop a top with them.
     
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    Yes because a bunch of scum bags that lie multiple times about other things. Won’t ever lie about what the machine says
    Even if the field breathalyzer is wrong. He should have had to take a breathalyzer test at the station with a calibrated machine. It should give out printed results.
    Never play their monkey games or take their field breathalyzer test.
     
    Yes and in a just world they would be fired and never work in LE again


    But they are paid to lie. And you get in trouble for lying to them.
    This is factually true. Police are allowed to lie during an investigation. Remember the old legend that if you asked an undercover cop if he was a cop, he was legally and duty-bound to admit that? Twas bullshit.

    I am with @LuckyDuck . I have known some good LEO and even worked with one (a sheriff.) But I am not currently LEO. That being said, yes, I have seen selective enforcement. The one place I got a fat and juicy ticket 2 years ago has not seen another posted cop let alone the one that got me. However, I don't hate him. It doesn't matter if a cop never sits that post again. I was speeding that day.

    Anyway, so, what I have learned is that when you are stopped and the police ask if you had anything to drink tonight, if you answer with anything other "no, I have not had any alcohol tonight," this is now a DUI stop. Period, paragraph, end of book, amen. You will be going to jail, pure and simple. Because now, it does not matter what you do, they are taking you to jail, whether you do the field sobriety tests are not. And most people fail those without being drunk. I have Meniere's (Vertigo.) I am not doing the crouching dragon hidden tiger horseshit.

    Just remember, if you refuse, they can get warrants for blood. In some places, refusal to test gets your license suspended immediately.

    That being said, and knowing that cops will twist your words, better to not have drank anything.

    A cop can be someone you grew up with. One of my high school associates became a Richardson PO and then later a detective. And finally, is working as a detective for Plano PD. And if he were to arrest me, I would keep my mouth shut. Because his job is to arrest people to solve a crime, and that functionally makes him my adversary, no matter how much fun we had as the class of 1982. It is his job to collect evidence against me and present to a DA. A police officer or detective does not have the job of proving people innocent. They have the job of investigating and providing evidence against the chosen suspect.

    The problem with LD's story is that he had been drinking, even if he was totally functional and safe.

    I have been pulled over in a rough neighborhood where my friends lived because I had long hair and looked like "biker." We were in a car. But I let it go. We were having dinner at a friend's apartment and I parked right in front of their dining room window. And our friend came out and said dinner was waiting, what is the problem?

    That hurried the cop up. The reason he pulled us over? I had a red '79 Buick Skylark with white interior and seat belts and he could not see the white seat belt securely over my wife's (then girlfriend) brown sweater. Of course he was a lying sack of shit. But he was profiling. And our friends had been broken into, as well.
     
    Even if the field breathalyzer is wrong. He should have had to take a breathalyzer test at the station with a calibrated machine. It should give out printed results.
    Never play their monkey games or take their field breathalyzer test.
    Exactly. If it was entered into evidence, it was from a calibrated machine with printout.

    I do breathalyzers all the time for work, where our bar to get under is 0.02 and I get a printout every time.
     
    I noticed that the Duck said that his lawyer got the case dismissed due to "No Probable Cause" for the stop. That's the same thing that would happen if the police entered your house and broke into your safe without a warrant. They found drugs in the safe but it doesn't matter because they didn't have a warrant to enter the house or the safe. Sounds like the 10K was a good investment if it balances against pleading to wreckless operation fines and insurance increases.
    But, cool story with a few holes.

    A police report for DUI is pretty much a form letter that they fill in the blanks with your name and information. They key trigger words/phrases are all there to make it easier to swallow for the judge. Let's say it's an elaborate story for a conviction. Truth be damned. And now they can skip right over the "I smelled alcohol" and arrest you for "believing" the vehicle operator was impared and possibly on illicit drugs.
     
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    The last time I tried telling the story I got the expected responses and deleted it

    Then by all means let's give you a different, maybe unexpected, response and see if we can't get this one deleted as well.

    I. Narrative Inconsistencies and Logical Fallacies
    Your narrative relies heavily on a personal anecdote that contains several logical fallacies:

    Appeal to Emotion: The narrative is laden with emotional elements—a dying dog, military service, and personal financial hardship—that distract from the central legal questions.

    False Dichotomy: The story presents only two possibilities: either the police were completely fabricating everything, or the narrator was completely innocent. This ignores the spectrum of possibilities between these extremes.

    Confirmation Bias: You selectively interpret evidence (camera footage) to support their pre-existing belief in their innocence while dismissing contrary evidence.

    Hasty Generalization: Using a single personal experience to draw broad conclusions about the entire justice system represents an unwarranted leap in logic.

    II. Evidentiary Concerns
    The narrative presents several evidentiary problems:

    Alcohol Consumption Timeline: You admit to consuming multiple alcoholic beverages over a 4-hour period, including:

    1.5 beers at the hockey game
    At least 2 more beers at the "watering hole" afterward
    This consumption pattern could indeed result in blood alcohol levels above legal limits, regardless of subjective feelings of sobriety.

    Selective Reporting: Your narrative omits critical details, such as:

    Whether field sobriety tests other than "standing on one leg" were conducted
    Whether a breathalyzer or blood test was administered
    The actual blood alcohol content measured, if any
    Unverifiable Claims: We have no way to verify the claim that camera footage contradicted the police report, as this evidence is not available for independent review.

    III. Legal Misunderstandings
    The narrative demonstrates several misunderstandings of legal processes:

    ARD Programs: Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition programs are not "carrots" designed to trick defendants, but evidence-based diversionary programs that benefit first-time offenders and reduce court backlogs.

    Court Costs: The $500 court cost for a "foglight out" seems implausible and suggests misunderstanding of how court fees are structured.

    Qualified Immunity: While qualified immunity does protect officers from certain civil liabilities, it does not prevent lawsuits for demonstrable misconduct such as falsifying reports.

    IV. Alternative Perspective
    A more balanced view of this situation might consider:

    Officer Perspective: Law enforcement must make judgment calls based on observed behavior, and reasonable suspicion of impairment can exist even when a driver believes they are "sober as they come."

    Public Safety: DUI enforcement exists primarily to protect public safety, not to harass citizens. The social cost of impaired driving justifies vigilant enforcement.

    Legal Process: The fact that the narrator was found not guilty demonstrates that the legal system, while imperfect, does provide mechanisms for justice when properly navigated.

    V. Conclusion
    While I acknowledge the frustration of anyone who feels wrongly accused, this narrative fails to provide a compelling argument against DUI enforcement or the justice system for several reasons:

    It relies on unverifiable claims and emotional appeals rather than objective evidence
    It demonstrates misunderstandings of legal processes and standards
    It draws sweeping conclusions from a single personal experience
    It fails to acknowledge the legitimate public safety interests served by DUI enforcement
    The justice system, like any human institution, is imperfect. However, anecdotal accounts with logical inconsistencies do not provide a sound basis for systemic criticism or reform.



    TL;DR version

    You are being an emotional twat.
     
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