Night Vision I want a thermal, which one.
- Thread starter Maxduty
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This is a tough question to answer, and there are others on here with much more experience that me. But here is my $.02 on something to consider..
Night vision has advantages over thermal, and thermal has advantages over NV. I like having both. Night vision can ID between dog, wolf, fox, coyote (important here in WI, maybe not where you are) much better than thermal. Thermal is obviously much easier to spot critters with, and take running shots. My experience tells me that, unless you can afford crazy good thermal, you'll be a more effective hunter using both NV and thermal in more affordable models. Something to consider, as I said others know way more than me.
Night vision has advantages over thermal, and thermal has advantages over NV. I like having both. Night vision can ID between dog, wolf, fox, coyote (important here in WI, maybe not where you are) much better than thermal. Thermal is obviously much easier to spot critters with, and take running shots. My experience tells me that, unless you can afford crazy good thermal, you'll be a more effective hunter using both NV and thermal in more affordable models. Something to consider, as I said others know way more than me.
Are there more affordable effective models in each? I need to be able to see pigs and yotes in the dark. That's it. 30 to 400 yards. Is there an effective clip on that's cheap that can do that? If it's any help I live in Oklahoma and am not too worried about dogs and such.
Going to get hammered here....
I have a ATN Thor HD 640 2.5-25x thermal an it’s been 100% perfect. Very reliable and can pick off critters out to 300-400 yards with ease. Very crisp and clear images and some really nice features.
Can spot hogs, coyotes and other out to 800 yards with ease and make a move on them...
I very happy...
I have a ATN Thor HD 640 2.5-25x thermal an it’s been 100% perfect. Very reliable and can pick off critters out to 300-400 yards with ease. Very crisp and clear images and some really nice features.
Can spot hogs, coyotes and other out to 800 yards with ease and make a move on them...
I very happy...
I think that thermals are going to upgrade their technology faster than many other consumer electronics. It's like saying that you want a T.V. that you'll still be excited to watch five years from now...after going to the neighbor's house and seeing what's new after only two.
$5K budget is in higher-end Pulsar territory for something brand new. Won't get you a laser rangefinder, but you will be in 640 resolution at least.
I too live in OK, and kill my fair share with a cheap-o 384 unit at $3,200. Detection range is 1,300+ yards, and identification range is 300+ (meaning that I'm able to tell what it is). I've got anywhere from 40-80 calves on the ground at any time, so I have to be able to tell the difference.
$5K budget is in higher-end Pulsar territory for something brand new. Won't get you a laser rangefinder, but you will be in 640 resolution at least.
I too live in OK, and kill my fair share with a cheap-o 384 unit at $3,200. Detection range is 1,300+ yards, and identification range is 300+ (meaning that I'm able to tell what it is). I've got anywhere from 40-80 calves on the ground at any time, so I have to be able to tell the difference.
Call Kathleen at P&R Infrared. I would save a bit more to get the reap. Just got my second one and prefer it over the hunter only b/c it’s lighter. She will take care of you for any budget.
Have a friend who runs a veterans hog hunting support group. He uses ATN almost exclusively. Reason being the cost/value for multiple units and they video everything. Been hunting with him and looked thru it a few times and it has a good picture. Little bulky for me and I don’t have need for the recording but it gets the job done and he says he really has not had much in the way of issues with them.
Best thermal is the one that you are running that is functioning and doing its job.
I have had great luck with mine like stated earlier, bought new and have taken very good care of it.
keep the firmware up to date and all is good. The recoil activated video is GTG....
IDK about clipons, I'm guessing that thermal clip-ons in your price range could be disappointing. Those things get expensive quick, well north of 10k.
For your use, it might make sense to dedicate your whole budget to thermal. Hog hunting tends to be a lot of shooting running targets, and that's way tougher to do with NV, thermal is hands down better. And if dogs etc aren't a problem in your area, then straight thermal for coyotes is fine.
I am biased by two experiences. Once we called in a sheep dog in SD, but we were day-calling, so no problem. At night with thermal, I can only guess I'd have shot. Another time we called in wolves. Yeah, they're alot bigger, but range can be a bitch to estimate through a thermal without landmarks, a field tends to look like a giant moonscape. I highly doubt I'd know the difference between wolf and coyote from a thermal image alone without some other evidence. For these reasons, I need quality NV first, and thermal as an assist.
@Maxduty : I think Namekagon nailed it in his advice below.
So IMHO you could get a good clean used PVS 14 for around $2k and then get a used Flir PTS 233 for around $1600 to $2,000 and have probably $1,000 left over for something like a Crye Nightcap, mounts and can even get the new Steiner Laser pointer (the new mini they coming out with).
You could then add a USGI 3x magnifier and Luna ELIR -3 for further out PID for about $500 bucks later on as more funds are available.
You would be a very effective night hunter with the above setup. It is easy to get at least within 200 yards of most critters at night. Usually down to 50 to 100 yards is no problem.
Most used NV & Thermal equipment is in pretty good shape and is sold because somebody is upgrading so I have never been overly concerned with buying used if the price is right.
I know that does not fit your clip on requirement, but you get a lot of value for say $5k by going the above route.
The only thing that might fit your clip-on request might be the Bering Optics HOGSTER C Universal Ultra-compact Thermal Clip-On Attachment. I do not have any experience with this unit, but the image on Youtube looks good and Corey Kirsh has put out a couple of videos that make it seem like it is a pretty fair device.
So IMHO you could get a good clean used PVS 14 for around $2k and then get a used Flir PTS 233 for around $1600 to $2,000 and have probably $1,000 left over for something like a Crye Nightcap, mounts and can even get the new Steiner Laser pointer (the new mini they coming out with).
You could then add a USGI 3x magnifier and Luna ELIR -3 for further out PID for about $500 bucks later on as more funds are available.
You would be a very effective night hunter with the above setup. It is easy to get at least within 200 yards of most critters at night. Usually down to 50 to 100 yards is no problem.
Most used NV & Thermal equipment is in pretty good shape and is sold because somebody is upgrading so I have never been overly concerned with buying used if the price is right.
I know that does not fit your clip on requirement, but you get a lot of value for say $5k by going the above route.
The only thing that might fit your clip-on request might be the Bering Optics HOGSTER C Universal Ultra-compact Thermal Clip-On Attachment. I do not have any experience with this unit, but the image on Youtube looks good and Corey Kirsh has put out a couple of videos that make it seem like it is a pretty fair device.
Do you currently have Gen-3 Night Vision -- like a PVS-14?
If no, follow WhereNow&How's advice.
If yes, $5K is pretty solid... IF you're patient. Scour the EE over on ARF and the PX here, as well as eBay and others. Pick your frog to kiss -- ReapIR MK2, Pulsar, etc. Sit and wait. Pounce when ready.
If you don't have anything yet, I'd scarf-up a used Omni VI/VII/VIII Gen 3 PVS-14 ($1500-2000), a TLR-VIR II IR Illuminator/Laser ($250), a Crye Nightcap + Wilcox Shroud + Rhino II ($250) plus counterweight and accessories ($50-100), a 3x USGI magnifier ($200), a QD rail mount for your PVS ($100), and something like a Pulsar or Flir Scion OTM ($2000) for scanning.
This allows you to wear / walk / navigate with the PVS-14 on your melon over your non-dominant eye. Scan frequently with the FLIR. Spot target. QD PVS from melon to rifle behind RDS/EOTech -- add 3x magnifier if needed -- engage TLR VIR II to PID target, engage target.
Finished business. You're a one-man wrecking machine. ;-)
Full NV/Thermal capability with all accessories, all under budget.
If no, follow WhereNow&How's advice.
If yes, $5K is pretty solid... IF you're patient. Scour the EE over on ARF and the PX here, as well as eBay and others. Pick your frog to kiss -- ReapIR MK2, Pulsar, etc. Sit and wait. Pounce when ready.
If you don't have anything yet, I'd scarf-up a used Omni VI/VII/VIII Gen 3 PVS-14 ($1500-2000), a TLR-VIR II IR Illuminator/Laser ($250), a Crye Nightcap + Wilcox Shroud + Rhino II ($250) plus counterweight and accessories ($50-100), a 3x USGI magnifier ($200), a QD rail mount for your PVS ($100), and something like a Pulsar or Flir Scion OTM ($2000) for scanning.
This allows you to wear / walk / navigate with the PVS-14 on your melon over your non-dominant eye. Scan frequently with the FLIR. Spot target. QD PVS from melon to rifle behind RDS/EOTech -- add 3x magnifier if needed -- engage TLR VIR II to PID target, engage target.
Finished business. You're a one-man wrecking machine. ;-)
Full NV/Thermal capability with all accessories, all under budget.
@TheHorta
All very good advice.
However, I do take one exception which is mounting a PVS 14 on the rifle..
Yes it can be done, and was primarily to be done in an emergency situation by Uncle Sugar's warriors. Uncle Sugar got BIG POCKETS.
We don't.
He said he has one shot at getting this right and is on a tight budget. I would hate to see him burn a permanent Red Dot or other reticle image in the 14 or have a recoil induced strike of the PVS 14 internals such that his tube looks like a scrambled egg.
The odds are very high to experience damage to a PVS 14 on a rifle, even a 556. Its not a matter of if, its when.
All very good advice.
However, I do take one exception which is mounting a PVS 14 on the rifle..
Yes it can be done, and was primarily to be done in an emergency situation by Uncle Sugar's warriors. Uncle Sugar got BIG POCKETS.
We don't.He said he has one shot at getting this right and is on a tight budget. I would hate to see him burn a permanent Red Dot or other reticle image in the 14 or have a recoil induced strike of the PVS 14 internals such that his tube looks like a scrambled egg.
The odds are very high to experience damage to a PVS 14 on a rifle, even a 556. Its not a matter of if, its when.
True dat, but it takes some time to wreck a tube. Get an NV-compatible EOTech and don't camp your PVS behind it for an extended duration.
"Back in the day" I ran an EOTech in front of a PVS-14 with a PAS-29 COTI and I was King of the World. Of course, that's when "restricted" PEQ-15's were raining down from the heavens. When I needed more magnification, I'd slap the 3x on the PVS and it still worked great. I probably put 500-800 rounds through that AR (a BCM) and never had any blemishes show up.
I may have just gotten lucky, which would be in direct conflict with my genetic legacy of getting defecated upon by Lady Luck.
"Back in the day" I ran an EOTech in front of a PVS-14 with a PAS-29 COTI and I was King of the World. Of course, that's when "restricted" PEQ-15's were raining down from the heavens. When I needed more magnification, I'd slap the 3x on the PVS and it still worked great. I probably put 500-800 rounds through that AR (a BCM) and never had any blemishes show up.
I may have just gotten lucky, which would be in direct conflict with my genetic legacy of getting defecated upon by Lady Luck.
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