• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Gunsmithing Idea for straight pull bolt action

McLarenross

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
After converting one of my AR uppers to side charging I got to thinking about the design and how easy it would be to use it as a straight pull bolt action. So I designed it. Here is my idea for a straight pull bolt action that would use standard AR-15 barrel extensions and bolts with a modified carrier.

Standard AR-15 barrel assemblies could be used if a sleeve is placed over the gas port and locktite'd to seal it. Ill chamber and assemble this barrel the same as any other AR barrel just omit the gas port.

The upper is 1.375" 7075 Aluminum Hex bar 6.375" long. The lower assembly is 1.125" x ~2.8" 6061 Aluminum stock.

It will use standard AR-15 lower parts(trigger, hammer, springs, etc..). The carrier is a standard AR-15 carrier shortened to 3" and the key is replaced by a square block for alignment in the upper.

The bolt is off the shelf stock. The handguard and barrel nut are very simple and similar to regular AR free float tubes. Im retaining the buffer tube mostly for the benefit of allowing the use of the Magpul PRS stock. It will have a spring and elongated buffer in the tube though to force the carrier assembly home to seat rounds with a similar pressure.

I am working on redesigning the gun to make it a bullpup style gun. My hang up with that is the same as every bullpup, the trigger mechanism. I am still working on that and hopefully can get it figured out. Input here would be very welcome.

The only think I havent decided how to do on this is a bolt hold open. I dont want to use the standard bolt catch but Im drawing a blank on what else to do. Inputs in this area would be greatly appreciated.

Pricing out the cost of the raw material for this, not including the barrel blank, and it is approximately $65.

Here are my 3D renderings of the design. Each part is made a different color to allow differentiation amongst the parts.

Note: many dimensions are not exact due to me doing the individual parts while not being near an AR to take measurements.

OverviewRight.jpg

OverviewRightSectioned.jpg

OverviewLeft.jpg

RecieverRight.jpg

LowerLeft.jpg

LowerRight.jpg
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

Your missing something killer.

Primary extraction. You have none.

The direct gas operating system of these types of rifles works in two ways. The gas key directs the pulse into a sort of cylinder/chamber arrangement that causes the bolt carrier to push away from the bolt. Due to the bolt cam pin the bolt is consequently rotated to unlock the breech. Because it has this acceleration (over the course of how much rotation is translated into linear movement) this serves as a moment of inertia to extract the fired case.

(think of a slide hammer used in body work, it's essentially the same thing)

I realize were all strapping young lads, but were all severely lacking the "grunt" that the action has during cycling.

Think of a twin lug bolt gun. You have roughly .125" of primary extraction exerted over a 90* bolt rotation. Think of how hard a stubborn case can be to yank out of your Remington.

Now complicate matters by adding 6 more lugs for a total of 8. Bolt rotation goes from 90 to 22.5*.

You don't really have any camming action with an AR. It's merely relying on the inertia created by the bolt carrier.

This is why straight pull receivers like the Anschutz Fortner and the stuff from Blaser uses either a lever or piston type assembly to leverage the bolt out of the breech.

You need mechanical advantage from some other means in order to make this reliably. One stuck case will ruin your day unless you plan to carry a rubber dead blow hammer with you wherever you go to shoot.

HERE's an idea though.

Make it a gas operated gun, but don't use the bullet for the gas.
Strap a bottle of nitrogen on that biche and set up a solenoid, relay, and pressure switch instead.

Set the switch to the overtravel position. Relay pulls direct battery power to actuate the solenoid. Solenoid sends a shot of nitrogen straight at the gas key. A Lithium/Polymer battery for an RC car has 13+ volts for a four cell and can deliver burst amperage over 250A. (no kidding) It's about the size of a pack of snack crackers found in a 7/11. Might weigh in a 4oz.

Lipos are the chit. Just don't piss it off! They explode and burn like napalm.

Solenoids are cheap. All it takes is a nitrous solenoid to make this work.

Walla! A semi auto that tries to act like a single shot till you gather up the overtravel. By that time the bullet is long gone so your follow through and shot calls emulate a bolt gun.

Besides, how cool would it be to show up at a match with a tank strapped to your back.

Who ya' gonna call. . . ????

Just a thought a buddy and I had about 15 years ago when we were dabbling in black guns for NRA highpower.

Have fun!

C.
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McLarenRoss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same as in a standard AR. Rotating 8 lug bolt. Just that there is no gas tube to push the carrier rearward and unlock the action and cycle it. </div></div> This could work. But im not going to be the one to fire the first shot! :]. how are you going to make sure the bolt stays locked in when the shot is fired?
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DannyDifalco</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McLarenRoss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same as in a standard AR. Rotating 8 lug bolt. Just that there is no gas tube to push the carrier rearward and unlock the action and cycle it. </div></div> This could work. But im not going to be the one to fire the first shot! :]. how are you going to make sure the bolt stays locked in when the shot is fired? </div></div>

same as a regular AR. Buffer and buffer spring.
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

Hmm. Interesting point Chad. Hadn't thought of the force required to extract after firing. I didnt really consider that cause I have used the adjustable gas system on my AR to close the gas system off and with it singly before and had no trouble removing fired rounds. Im gonna have to do some testing with that again. I can see where it might pose a problem with higher pressure or slightly over pressure rounds.

Danny; Why would it be any different than an AR? It is still locked into the same barrel extension thats head spaced to the same type of barrel with the same bolt thats locked into the same carrier. If I removed the gas tube from your AR would you be afraid to shoot it?
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

Don't get me wrong. I applaud your efforts. Just know this.

When in Iraq training Kurds/Peruvians I had horrible ammunition. Wolf with lacquered steel cases. It worked fine in the cold months, but the moment it got hot out my staff quickly became Ninjas with cleaning rods due to failures to extract type malfunctions.

Some tried using a boot heal to kick the bolt open via the charging handle. I discouraged this as was a good way to vaporize your cranium from some clown forgetting to remove the source of ammunition. (just imagine a muzzle pointed at your face as you "kick start" an M-4. . .)

Way more paperwork than I ever wanted to deal with. . .
smile.gif


 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

I am taking that into account. Im gonna do a good bit of testing with the gas system removed from one of my ARs and see how it goes.

Ranger; Simple is good but I have these machine tools and I cant help but think of ideas and things to use them for! lol. Its kinda addicting.
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

LOL Kick start a M4!

That reminds me of my freind pull starting his nuts with a chain saw. The handle got him not the blade.
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryce6750</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL Kick start a M4!

That reminds me of my freind pull starting his nuts with a chain saw. The handle got him not the blade. </div></div>

To funny.
laugh.gif
laugh.gif


Paul.
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

They do this already in the UK with the Highpower "Service Rifle" guys since civies aren't allowed autoloaders.

My understanding is that Britain goes 1 step further on the barrel but two steps less on making the receiver updates.

They put side charging mods into the upper but the barrels don't get a gas port drilled to begin with. One of the guys that occasionally shoots at my home club runs one like this and does extremely well.

He doesn't have any extraction issues with the little 223 cases.
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

I was thinking about this same idea not too long ago. I didn't think about the force needed to extract a case - that could be a problem. Maybe you could figure out a way to provide a slight camming action to act as a lever the first 1/8 inch or so...
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

The bolt of a AR does cam when locking and unlocking, right?
 
Re: Idea for straight pull bolt action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryce6750</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bolt of a AR does cam when locking and unlocking, right?</div></div>

Not in a manner that provides any real mechanical advantage for extraction. The bolt face stays static relative to the extraction plane as it rotates to the unlocked position by way of the cam pin that translates the rearward movement of the bolt carrier into the rotational movement of the bolt. The bolt itself does not begin moving rewards until the cam action is complete and the bolt is unlocked from the extension lugs.

I've had a AR guns in the past with Off/On gas blocks for use with subsonic rounds. In my completely non-expert opinion this seems like the sort of thing that would work in prototype but not in production if you wanted to make it the primary operating mode of the gun.