Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

[LSOSGT1109]

As a range officer for my department I have been tasked with coming up with a designated marksman qualification course. Several of our officers are issued M-14's. I though that we should put these rifles to good use so I suggested a designated marksman program and got tasked with coming up with a qualification course. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[boom2336]

Re: Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

What is the Max range you expect out of your DMs with the M14s?

 

[LSOSGT1109]

Re: Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

That's another thing that I am considering. They don't have optics on them so I'm thinking that it will be 100yds max. I know the M-14 is capable of much greater distances with iron sights but I don't know about my shooters. Plus the average LE sniper shooting is like 71 yards so I doubt we'll be going out past 100.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

The AMU/CMP conduct SDM Courses. Why not drop them a line for their recommendations.

When I taught Rifles to APD's SWAT (they called them CRT) teams, I basily conducted a Small Arms Firing School using the 200 yard range. Moved them over to the transition course (AQT- Pop up targets to 300 yards. Also ran them on the pop up (up to 50 yards) pistol range using their rifles.

You cannot teach or plan for every situation that comes up. The AMU's Counter Sniper Guide for LE sugest learning the fundamentals the shoot varments. Varment shooting refines your skills, you get vering conditions, distances, time, etc. But they need the fundamentals first.

I got the APD guys shooting fairly well at 200, if you can shoot 200 you can shoot 100 (or 71) yards.

 

[rcnpthfndr]

Re: Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

fm3-22.9 Section 7, Scorecard DA Form 7649-R

that should get you started.

I just did something simialr to this last week.
PMI (Diassembly, Assembly, Functions Check, Maintenance, etc)
100M Zero (per SOP)
SDM qual (Iron/Optics)
Ran steel out to 900m

 

[SniperCJ]

Re: Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plus the average LE sniper shooting is like 71 yards so I doubt we'll be going out past 100. </div></div>

The 71 yard thing is a myth that has been perpetuated for years and years. It was supposedly based on some FBI study. It never happened.

The American Sniper Association (Derrick Bartlett / SniperCraft and crew) did a pretty comprehensive study about it a few years ago. Many Depts were contacted and t he actual number thay they arrived at was, i think, 33 yards.

 

[boom2336]

Re: Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

I would suggest making sure that they are solid on the fundementals of Marksmanship and intamantly familar with the rifle.

Little side story. My neighbor who is a LEO bought and M4. Well he was having some issues Zeroing it and thought he had a bad rifle. I took him to the Indoor range here and got him a good zero at about 35 yrds. Then he asked me if I could show him how to Dis/Ass the weapon and how to clean it. I was dumbfounded that someone couldnt diss/ass an m4 since I have been doing it for 10 years now.

So I would start with a grass week. Concreting in the fundementals and shooting positions. Sorta how the military (USMC) trains recruits. Build up the muscle memory. I know it isnt the best/all inclusive training but I feel that with what I was taught I could pretty much shoulder any rifle and fire it better than most.

After a grass week and snap in period start off teaching how to get a good zero and BZO. Make sure BZO are attained in the gear that they would be responding in.

After that it is up to imagination as far as strings of Fire. Supported and unsupported positions. Porne and combat prones. Shoot KD from 30yds-100yds. Then set up an UKD range to and teach some range estimation techinques.

Hope this helps.

 

[LSOSGT1109]

Re: Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plus the average LE sniper shooting is like 71 yards so I doubt we'll be going out past 100. </div></div>

The 71 yard thing is a myth that has been perpetuated for years and years. It was supposedly based on some FBI study. It never happened.

The American Sniper Association (Derrick Bartlett / SniperCraft and crew) did a pretty comprehensive study about it a few years ago. Many Depts were contacted and t he actual number thay they arrived at was, i think, 33 yards. </div></div>

Good point SniperCj. I got the 71 yard thing from when I went thru sniper school a couple years ago but I think I remember reading the American Sniper Association report after that. My point was that LE shootings are rarely further than 100 yards, much closer in the vast majority of cases.

Of course, the first thing we as range officers would do is make sure they guys are squared away on the maintenance/function of the rifles. Most of our guys that have the M-14's are experienced shooters but I think a refresher course on the fundamentals should be part of any course. Obviously we need to school them on shooting standing, kneeling, and prone with the rifle as well as using the sling. This is a work in progress that hopefully we can get put together by summer.

 

[spswatip]

Re: Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plus the average LE sniper shooting is like 71 yards so I doubt we'll be going out past 100. </div></div>

The 71 yard thing is a myth that has been perpetuated for years and years. It was supposedly based on some FBI study. It never happened.

The American Sniper Association (Derrick Bartlett / SniperCraft and crew) did a pretty comprehensive study about it a few years ago. Many Depts were contacted and t he actual number thay they arrived at was, i think, 33 yards. </div></div>

Mean (average) is 56 yrds
Mode (most occurring distance) is 40 yrds

 

[tennessean]

Re: Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

I think alot of folks here are on the right track. First thing should be weapon familiarization, i.e. maintenance, operation, manipulation, manual of arms, etc.

One thing that should be done prior to this is to define the role of both the person and the weapon. Is there an SOP written yet for the DM Program?

Once that has been established, get them on the range for as much time as you can shooting fundamental shooting positions: Standing, sitting, kneeling, prone and the variations thereof. Let them build the position at first to get familiar then have them start from standing and move into position quickly to make the shot.

Once they have the fundamental shooting positions covered, have them conduct reloads, IA drills, transitions, etc. Show them how to use cover and how to cover each other while moving.

Just remember that qualification is not training, they should be trained first. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but I also work for LE and know how my department thinks.

By the way, KSP has a VERY respected sniper program. I've run your qual once and shot with some of your snipers. Good folk.

 

[Driftwood]

Re: Ideas on Designated Marksman Qual Course

You should look to some of the surrounding LE Agencies that have a DDM position. They should have SOP's and qualifications that are already developed. Use these as guidelines to develop your own, but remember that anytime you stray from the "established norms" you are opening yourself up to civil and possible legal litigation. The more "established" and accepted your policies are the more chance they have of standing up against a legal challenge guaranteed to come up if your dept is involved in a use of force incident. I would certainly run anything you come up with past your department’s legal team. There is really no sense in reinventing the wheel. I would stick to the established SOP's in your area and make them work for your department.