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If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

holdem

Private
Minuteman
Nov 4, 2009
34
0
51
Orlando, FL
Back story - I have been shooting only about 5 years. First pistol, then IPSC / IDPA. Then rifle (AR-15) and then 3 gun. Then 18 months or so ago I bought a LWRC REPR and shot some F-Class (my range is 300 yards). Then I bought a Sig SSG3000 within the last year and did much better in F-Class. And the whole time, I have used factory ammo, until my last F-Class match. A good friend of mine gave me some of his hand loads because I had given him over 1000 pieces of .308 once fired brass. The loads he worked up were Hornady .308 178 grain AMAX w/ 43.5 grains of Varget with an OAL of 2.945. My group size shrunk considerably shooting this ammo over the factory stuff (FGMM in 168 or 175 or AMAX in 168). And now I am thinking about reloading.

I have read lots on this forum and others. I plan to order at least one, if not multiple books, to read. I plan to visit my friend to actually see the process in person. And then I am going to order some stuff. Here is what I foresee - I will not reload to save money. If I assign a value to my time, reloading is more expensive than buying ammo. I plan to reload for precision .308. I do not plan to reload .223, 9mm or any other calibers. Factory ammo is good enough for minute of man when shooting 3 gun with .223 and 9mm. I am only concerned with reloading .308 because I want those 20 round sub-MOA groups at 300 yards for F-Class. While precision is the number one goal, time is also a very important factor. I am self employed, married, have two small children and hobbies other than shooting. I am lucky if I get to shoot once or twice per month as is, so I need the reloading process to be quick and to not waste time. I figure I will want to reload at minimum 600 rounds per year. At maximum, 1200 rounds per year. That gives me between 50-100 .308 rounds per month to play with.

So, I know there are tons of you on this board with lots of reloading experience who have used lots of equipment. Based on my situation, if you start with a blank slate, what do you buy?
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

You can buy the RCBS kit and it will have the basics like a press, tray, primer press, lube and pad, and so on. I would get a digital scale instead of the one that comes with the kit. You will also need dies for your caliber and a shell holder. The kit will come with a manual but you cant have enough of them.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

Forster Co-Ax
RCBS Chargemaster
Stainless Steel cleaning set up
Giraud trimmer (this is on my wish list)
Redding / Forster dies

As I do a lot of high volume reloading for various calibres an annealing machine is also on my wish list, however you can choose to skip annealing all together or just do it by hand (50 cases can be done in a few minutes).
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

For the money the RCBS kit is hard to beat. If money isn't an issue look at what Jagged77 listed. That's top shelf.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

If I was going to spend my own money from scratch for 308 Precision loading:
Hornady Lock N Load Progressive
Lyman De-Capping
Redding Body Die
Redding Competition Neck Sizing Die
WFT Trimmer
Sinclair Neck Turning Tool and Expander Die
Sinclair drill chuck case holder
RCBS ABS Hand Primer
Sinclair Arbor Press
Wilson Stainless 308 Seating Die
RCBS Chargemaster
Sinclair/Saturn Aluminum 30 cal powder funnel
Redding Instant Indicator in it's own $14 Lee Press
PTG Go Gauge
Hornady Stoney-Point chamber/seating measurement gauge
Vibratory Tumbler
BenchSource Annealer
Hornady Dial Calipers
Shars Tube Micrometer
Shars Micrometer

if you'd like me to explain why on anything, just ask.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

With so few rounds needed I would not get a progressive. I would get a hand press and good powder dispenser.

Brass prep will be important
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

Buy your friend a good rifle (GAP level of excellence). Furnish him with the components he needs and get him to reload for you. Cheaper and faster in the long run.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pimpgun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jagged77 nailed it. Buy top quality once. </div></div>

+1 with a Chargemaster because I hate measuring powder out by hand.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

It sounds like your time is limited and thus very valuable. This coupled with your range of shooting disciplines dictates a progressive press in my opinion. So FWIW:

Dillon 650 with case feeder: This press is going to allow you to load pistol and .223 very rapidly full progressive (throwing charges), but also speed up your precision rifle reloading by running it progressively 2x.

Get a vibratory tumbler to tumble briefly with corncob so you don't scratch your sizing die. Size and deprime on the press. The case feeder makes this first round very quick.

Then, get the Stainless steel media set up and give them a good cleaning (gets your primer pockets and necks). This also eliminates the step of hand wiping lube off your brass. Otherwise the stainless media cleaning is optional I guess and if you forego it you could run 1x progressively. If you do that i recommend floating your dies, and maybe clamping the toolhead for better OAL consistency. My dies are floated on the 550, but since playing with STM and 2x progressive I don't think this is as big of an issue because you are now separating sizing and bullet seating.

Buy a Giraud to trim, chamfer, and debur.

Come back for round two and with sizing die backed out. Prime, expand neck with Sinclair neck expander.

Probably get some kind of digital scale with trickler like a chargemaster to take charge from and dump into powder die with funnel on top at next station. I have a prometheus set up on my 550 so I can't elaborate further on other powder dispensers. (Currently doing the above process on my 550 manually for my precision long range, but have a 650 for pistol and .223/.204, and really starting to like the speed of the case feeder).

Forster or Redding Micrometer bullet seater in next stage.

Digital calipers, some kind of head space gauge, imperial sizing wax, maybe a concentricity gauge...etc. etc.

To me this is a very efficient set up that is simple, and eliminates specialty tools that can be expensive for tedious tasks that you end up just buying the best and quickest (Ex: Giraud trimmer) equipment anyway. Buy once, cry once.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

After 40 years of reloading,this is what I have:
1. Lyman reloading manuel (maybe get one or two others)
2. Co-ax press or any brand "O" frame,compound linkage press and shellholder
3. RCBS chargemaster
4. Redding 3-die set and order the comp seating die
5. Wilson / Sinclair case trimmer with case holder
6. case loading block
7. powder funnel (Saturn)
8. Lube pad and lube or your choice of spray lube
9. Sinclair primer pocket uniformer
10. Sinclair flash hole deburring tool
11. Tumbler and media of your choice
12. 6" caliper (Starrett,Mitutoyo for top end,or Harber Freight
13. Deburring tool (your choice with brand)
14. Sinclair bullet comparator
15. Sinclair bump gauge insert

This list would give you a high end set of tools that would serve you well.Lots of others could make a different list that would work just as well.Less expensive tools could be substituted,and I have had them,and later traded up to these.The friend that loaded your ammo could also advise you,and help you get started .Lightman
+
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

A set of golf clubs.

I could probably be in a house twice the size if I never took up this hobby.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

I just started recently and learned some lessons but overall did ok on cost. I am glad I stuck with a single stage press. Much easier to learn on as many experienced reloaders advised. I bought the Hornady LNL classic kit but would not do so if I could do it over. I'd still get the LNL classic single press, but would have just gone straight to the Chargemaster scale/autocharge. I tried the Hornady auto scale and it did not work properly for very long so returned it. I also have the RCBS case prep center - $120 or so and makes case prep go much faster. Bought the little crow gunworks case trimmer and it was well worth it. The Giraud is the gold standard but it also requires a hefty dose of gold to get it. Definitely pick up a Hornady ogive measuring gauge as well. I use Forster Micrometer seating dies (to seat by ogive) and the Lee neck sizer die. Finally, get the RCBS primer tool - easiest to use. That is a sampling of what I have learned over the past several months experimenting with various reloading equipment.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

Golf is another expensive hobby, especially if you're inclined to adjust your setup much.


I got into reloading as a college student so I could afford to shoot. It turned into a money and time pit pretty quickly. There are plenty of good suggestions above and jagged77 put together a really good list. My setup is RCBS based (press, scale and measure) and I have had good results from day one. I will throw in a big +1 for their hand priming tool also, great tool. Their customer service is excellent if that matters to you.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

With how much you want to reload I would go with an RCBS kit and upgrade to the Chargemaster.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buy your friend a good rifle (GAP level of excellence). Furnish him with the components he needs and get him to reload for you. Cheaper and faster in the long run. </div></div>

2nd this, if that is all you plan to load you will not be able to refine the process to get the results that your friend is getting you
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

I got back into reloading after being absent for 15 years. I had "top of the line" equipment years ago. BUT from experience, I've learned is doesn't matter what color your equipment is. Every manufacturer has pros and cons. Its about the knowledge of proper reloading and ones discipline to do so. I will tell you that I mostly use Lee products. I do have a few Hornady items also. It makes me very happy that my $40 die sets outperform a friends $75 die set.
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: holdem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back story - I have been shooting only about 5 years. First pistol, then IPSC / IDPA. Then rifle (AR-15) and then 3 gun. Then 18 months or so ago I bought a LWRC REPR and shot some F-Class (my range is 300 yards). Then I bought a Sig SSG3000 within the last year and did much better in F-Class. And the whole time, I have used factory ammo, until my last F-Class match. A good friend of mine gave me some of his hand loads because I had given him over 1000 pieces of .308 once fired brass. The loads he worked up were Hornady .308 178 grain AMAX w/ 43.5 grains of Varget with an OAL of 2.945. My group size shrunk considerably shooting this ammo over the factory stuff (FGMM in 168 or 175 or AMAX in 168). And now I am thinking about reloading.

I have read lots on this forum and others. I plan to order at least one, if not multiple books, to read. I plan to visit my friend to actually see the process in person. And then I am going to order some stuff. Here is what I foresee - I will not reload to save money. If I assign a value to my time, reloading is more expensive than buying ammo. I plan to reload for precision .308. I do not plan to reload .223, 9mm or any other calibers. Factory ammo is good enough for minute of man when shooting 3 gun with .223 and 9mm. I am only concerned with reloading .308 because I want those 20 round sub-MOA groups at 300 yards for F-Class. While precision is the number one goal, time is also a very important factor. I am self employed, married, have two small children and hobbies other than shooting. I am lucky if I get to shoot once or twice per month as is, so I need the reloading process to be quick and to not waste time. I figure I will want to reload at minimum 600 rounds per year. At maximum, 1200 rounds per year. That gives me between 50-100 .308 rounds per month to play with.

So, I know there are tons of you on this board with lots of reloading experience who have used lots of equipment. Based on my situation, if you start with a blank slate, what do you buy? </div></div>

This thread will answer most of your questions.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96660&page=1

Also here's my take on good gear to get started with.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just my 2 cents -

Recommended reloading equipment - my opinion on buying the right stuff the first time around.

reloading dies For the .308 Winchester -
Redding Competition Bushing Neck Sizer Die 308 Winchester
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=160954&t=11082005

Forster Ultra Full Length 2-Die Set 308 Winchester (National Match)
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=889455&t=11082005

for depriming all spent brass -
Redding Universal Depriming and Decapping Die Kit
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=597441&t=11082005

Redding Neck Sizer Die Bushing 335 Diameter Titanium Nitride
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=888335&t=11082005

An excellent reloading press that I have found for 99.9% of all the precision rifle reloading operations you'll do.
Forster Co-Ax Single Stage Press
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=265719&t=11082005

a good scale -
Redding #2 Master Magnetic Powder Scale 505 Grain Capacity
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=658771&t=11082005

A VERY good powder measure -
Redding Match Grade 3BR Powder Measure with Universal and Handgun Metering Chamber
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=246394&t=11082005

Lube for case resizing -
Forster High Pressure Lubricant 2 oz
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=300002&t=11082005

various case prep tools -
Forster Chamfer and Deburring Tool
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=364181&t=11082005

Redding Primer Pocket Uniformer Tool Large
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=664266&t=11082005

RCBS Hand Priming Tool
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=329291&t=11082005

RCBS Shellholder #3
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=326468&t=11082005

Redding Case Trimmer w/ Micormeter
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=635693

Redding #5 Powder Trickler
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=487186&t=11082005

RCBS Powder Funnel 22 to 45 Caliber
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=328093&t=11082005

RCBS Pow'r Pull Impact Bullet Puller
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=630146&t=11082005

RCBS Pow'r Pull Impact Bullet Puller Magnum Rifle Chuck Assembly
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=116534&t=11082005

Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ Case Tumbler Master Kit with Quick-N-EZ Rotary Media Separator 110 Volt
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=414369

Lyman Turbo Brass Cleaning Media Treated Corn Cob 6 lb "Easy Pour Container"
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=541305

Sierra "5th Edition Rifle and Pistol Manual of Reloading Data" Reloading Manual
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=946494

Sierra Infinity Suite "Infinity Exterior Ballistic Software Version 6 and 5th Edition Manual" CD-ROM
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=415729

Remember to follow the manual and reload carefully and safely.

Good luck and good shooting!
</div></div>
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

Forster Co-Ax press
Redding type S FL die
Redding Comp Seater
Sinclair Primer Pocket Uniformer, it simply cuts better, easier and more consistent
Sinclair Gen 2 Flash hole Deburr tool, the stop is directly above the cutter, ie more uniform cuts
RCBS Hand Priming Tool
Giraud Trimmer
Gen 2 Prometheus, if this is out of your price range a tuned scale from Scott Parker
Omega Trickler, only if using a Tuned Scale
21st Century Shooting Systems Neck Turner
Sinclair Concentricity or 21st Century Shooting Systems Concentricity Gauge
Krazy Klothes
Dillon Tumbler, the big one, ultra clean brass from SS media or Ultra Sonic Cleaner does not shoot as well as slightly dirty brass with clean outsides
Sinclair decapping die
Imperial Sizing Wax
12 volt Dewalt Cordless Drill
MTM Reloading Case Treys
PVM-21 Chronograph

This is my setup except for the Chronograph and Tumbler(which I'm buying soon)
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Krazy Klothes
</div></div>
my google fu must be weak....
 
Re: If you could start from scratch, what do you buy?

Dillon 650
Stainless Media
Quick Measure powder measure (on wish list)
Redding Comp 3 Die set

308 ammo
Leave brass dirty, into the hopper they go, I decap all brass first using universal de-capper on Dillon. Into stainless media they go for about 2-4 hours depending on how dirty. Let brass dry for one day. Spray with Dillon lube, back into hopper, then full length size and neck size. If it is once fired brass I de-bur flash hole inside and out. Possum hollow quick case trim to length, chamfer neck inside and out. Quick tumble 10-15 min in stainless to remove lube. . .ready to load. For 308 I want the Quick Measure powder measure so I can throw stick powder accurately.

223
Pretty similar to 308 except I have to add remove primer crimp step in there. Usually after cleaning. For 223 I do not clean up the flash hole like for 308. I use the Dillon powder measure as I use BL-C2 ball powder and it throws to within .05+/- (yes .05) grains. My 223 is not match ammo and it will still hold 1 moa or less.

For 308 I use Lake City brass and for 223 I use whatever I can get my hands on. Even with mixed brass my ES for 223 is about 50fps. Plenty good enough for me. . . .for now