I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Hey fellas,
I'm trying to get rid of my 700 to get an AR10 platform. I'm a little confused on which one I should get as I am finding that certain ones don't chamber .308 and some don't chamber NATO rounds. I build all my rounds to NATO specs, so which rifles should I look at, and which one's should I overlook? Or is there a rifle that eats anything you give it?

Thanks in advance for the info.

Erik

 

[KMCM110]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

Knights makes several excellent AR-10 Rifles - but they are not cheap..

Armalite makes a nice Ar10 and there are others..

I understand that the heaver grain bullet is the desired round for the Armalite per their manual.

I will check with a friend when I am on shift next, I believe he used the DPMS, I will see what he recommends..

 

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

Ok thanks for the info. I have about 2000 168gr SMK's that are waiting to be built. I was planning to get something along the lines of 18"-22" barrel and I'd want a 1-10 twist correct? Would that handle 168's ok?

 

[pupdawg]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

Barrel length depends on how far you plan to shoot. I had my 10T cut down to 18" from 24" because I'm only able to shoot out to 450. There's a big difference in handling (transporting, etc) a 24" gun VS an 18" gun and I'm completely satisfied.

Twist rate is usually 1-11.25 or 1-10. Both will work well with 175 gr, so buy whats available.

My AR10T with its factory LW barrel was always good for MOA with 168's and 175's even after the cutdown to 18".

I'm currently considering selling the AR10 to get the LMT MWS, as I want to stray away from the "proprietary" mag and go to a more "industry" norm with the DPMS/SR25 pattern lower.

As more and more manuf. offer 308 AR platforms with the DPMS/SR25 pattern lowers, I can see Armalite possibly selling fewer rifles as the years progress. Back in the day it wasn't as big a deal as there were ONLY Armalite and Knights (before DPMS LR-308), so you either picked up a 10T or an SR25 Match for 2x the price. Armalite had problems with their "proprietary" magazine (which wasn't that proprietary back then) at first but has since gotten them to run flawlessly with the gen II mags.

Still, the 308 AR "industry" seems to be swinging or has swung in the direction of the SR25/DPMS pattern. If I were mark westrom (CEO, Armalite), I'd offer a lower to accept SR25 mags... but we all KNOW that will NEVER HAPPEN.

The above is just my personal opinion, it is what it is and I'll always like the Armalite... but once I get the LMT, all that'll be history.

 

[BCP]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

I handload and full length resize everything, haven't had any ammo issues - dpms pattern rifle I built myself. 1:10, 1:11, 1:12 will all fire 175's fine. What kind of accuracy are you hoping to get out of it? Mine isn't as accurate as a good bolt 700 but it will still make 1" or less groups at 100.

 

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

Thanks for the input guys!

Pupdawg- I ended up getting an LR308 with a 20" 1x10 Match barrel. I would like to have the capability to shoot up to 1000 yds which would be more than anything I'd ever need in a SHTF scenario. I got rid of my 700 in order to build a SHTF rifle that can offer similar accuracy to a bolt but have semi auto power. IIRC the chamber is a 7.62, but I can't remember off the top of my head. It's being shipped to me tomorrow so I can post details and pics in a few days!

I've been reading/told that PMags are the way to go with the LR 308 because others cause problems. Are there dependable metal mags available?

BCP- Thanks for the info. I'm hoping for at the worst an MOA rifle. I'll be happy with that and anything better will just be a bonus.

 

[Unknown]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

I have a DPMS LR308 in 308/7.62. I have both the DPMS metal 19 round mags, and the Magpul 20 round mags. DPMS said my rifle had feeding issues with their metal mags, so they replaced the mag. I have NEVER had any problems with the magpul magazines, and I really like that they only cost $20.00 vs nearly $50.00 for the DPMS mags that hold one less round.

If I buy any more mags (currently have about 9), they will certainly be the magpul mags.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

How do you build your rounds to NATO specs?
Where do you get dies that are 7.62 NATO only?

 

[BCP]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

DPMS mags suck, I know I have 4 of them. I had to bend the feed lips on all of them to get them to feed 100%. Pmags and Cproducts are both better. Some people really dog on cproducts mags but they are good mags for not a lot of money, I think 15$ a mag on 44mag.com

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you build your rounds to NATO specs?
Where do you get dies that are 7.62 NATO only?
</div></div>

Maybe he means that he uses mil brass and loads to service rifle specs (IE m1a type loads)?

 

[Northrop]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

Erik, .308 is the Standard unit of measurement ie. American unit of measure. .308 is the diameter of the Bullet. IF you convert that Diameter to the Metric System it is 7.62 mm.
Our Military calls it 7.62 Nato because America is the only ones in the world that use the Standard Unit of measure, Everyone else uses Metric, So we conform to the rest of our "NATO ALLIES" (Very loosely stated) and use the Metric system.
Just like .223 cal. IS 5.56mm

 

[was21]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jgn8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Erik, .308 is the Standard unit of measurement ie. American unit of measure. .308 is the diameter of the Bullet. IF you convert that Diameter to the Metric System it is 7.62 mm.
Our Military calls it 7.62 Nato because America is the only ones in the world that use the Standard Unit of measure, Everyone else uses Metric, So we conform to the rest of our "NATO ALLIES" (Very loosely stated) and use the Metric system.
Just like .223 cal. IS 5.56mm

</div></div>

Just a FYI
.308 mathematically converts to 7.8232mm
.223 converts to 5.6642

 

[WRM]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: was21</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jgn8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Erik, .308 is the Standard unit of measurement ie. American unit of measure. .308 is the diameter of the Bullet. IF you convert that Diameter to the Metric System it is 7.62 mm.
Our Military calls it 7.62 Nato because America is the only ones in the world that use the Standard Unit of measure, Everyone else uses Metric, So we conform to the rest of our "NATO ALLIES" (Very loosely stated) and use the Metric system.
Just like .223 cal. IS 5.56mm

</div></div>

Just a FYI
.308 mathematically converts to 7.8232mm
.223 converts to 5.6642
</div></div>

Actually, 223 Rem uses .224" bullet (5.69mm).

7.62/5.56 is bore (land) diameter.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

Unknown- that is good to know. I don't like the idea of having to rig the mags to work correctly. He gave me a PMag with the rifle so I guess that's a good start. Thank you again for your info.

Tiro- What I mean is I use military brass and load it to military rifle standards, except I use a SMK round. I was concerned because all the brass I have is non commercial.

BCP- You beat me to it. I'll have to check those mags out. Never had a problem with them eh?

Jgn- I thought that too but if they are the same how come DPMS specifically states to not use NATO ammo in their .308 barrels? (I found that somewhere I'll have to dig it up)

WAS- Thanks for that. Probably why DPMS doesn't want you shooting NATO in their .308 barrel

I'm sorry if my thoughts are off I'm just confused about it. I ended up getting a DPMS LR 308 with a Match 7.62 barrel. So either way I should be good right?

 

[Badshot308]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

Look at this post from the DPMS forum http://dpmsinc.com/forum/posts.aspx?postID=2271

 

[BCP]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

If you're full length sizing your mil brass with a 308 set of dies you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Let us know how it shoots when you get it.

 

[223Rem]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

Never really knew there was an "industry norm" when it came to magazines design for the .308.

If magazines are an issue, why not get a FAL or G3? Those mags are plentiful and cheap but most of all reliable.

Considerig the AR10 originally used modified M1A mags, wouldn't that be the industry norm?

 

[bohem]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 223Rem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never really knew there was an "industry norm" when it came to magazines design for the .308.

If magazines are an issue, why not get a FAL or G3? Those mags are plentiful and cheap but most of all reliable.

Considerig the AR10 originally used modified M1A mags, wouldn't that be the industry norm? </div></div>

AR10s and LR308's are different rifles almost entirely. The M1A mags don't work in the LR308, they don't even fit in the mag well. I don't understand why DPMS went to a proprietary mag, especially since it's 0.050" shorter than the M1A mags internally. Loaded rounds must be kept to 2.8".

 

[Badshot308]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

No, the original AR-10 developed by Eugene Stoner and the Armalite division of the Fairchild Airplane and Engine Corp in the 50's used what is referred to as the waffle type AR-10 magazine. The current Armalite company bought by Mark Weston in 1994 used the modified M14/M1A mags due to the restrictions of the 1994 assault weapons ban. Knights Armament Company was already producing the SR-25 which uses a magazine compatible with the original waffle mag from the 50's. When DPMS began producing the LR-308 after the 1994 ban sunset, they used the SR-25 magazine design. Most of the 308 AR type rifles that have been introduced since, are using the SR-25/DPMS mags. Armalite is still using the GenII magazine which is based off the modified M14 mags and Rock River Arms uses FNFAL mags in their LAR-8 rifle. The SR-25/DPMS mags are becoming the "industry norm".

 

[Badshot308]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

I have a feeling that if DPMS had adopted the the Armailte GenII mags instead of the SR-25 mags, the industry might have followed suit.

 

[GRIM]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

I used to have a SR-25, it shot 3/4" with Fed GMM 168 ammo. Sold it years ago. Kind of stupid to sell it but it's water under the bridge. Fast forward to today - bought a DMPS LR-308 with 24" barrel. Shoots 3/4" with Fed GMM175 ammo. Very glad I bought the DPMS as it uses the Magpul mags and feeds flawlessly with them.
Enjoy your new rifle and post pics when you get them.

 

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Re: I'm confused about ammo for AR10/LR 308 rifles

Badshot- Yes that's where I saw that. Awesome second post too. Lot of good info.

BCP- Ok cool that's exactly what I'm doing.

Bohem- They probably did it so they can sell more product because their guns wouldn't work with anything else at the time. Awesome I keep my OAL between 2.790-2.800.

Grim- Thanks. I am anxiously awaiting. I'll definitely let you guys know how the rifle shoots!