IMR 4895 Loads for .308

[pmclaine]

I'm a newby rifle reloader currently playing with Varget, IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 for 30-06 in a Garand and 2 Springfld 03's. I have an LMT MWS in .308 scheduled for delivery end of this month (fat chance).

My limited amount of play with my milsurps shows IMR 4895 to be the most promising. I'd like to keep my logistics simple one primer size, one bullet weight (168 grn), and most importantly one powder I can buy in bulk.

4895 was the early .308 powder is it still worth going to or have things gotten that much better with newer powders that I should make room to store another keg dedicated to my .308 needs. 4895 is the optimal burn rate for the Garand system and keeping my Garand oprod intact is a concern.

I'll be loading on an S1050 Dillon. I know its not thought to be the ideal powder dispenser for stick but polishing the crap out of the funnel/mechanism has yielded good results. 4895 was pretty consistent, 4064 similar and Varget had the biggest drop differences. Shooting wise 4895, Varget (odd considering how much my measures differed - it wasnt bad accuracy wise =/+ than milsurp ammo), 4064 for my groups.

Thanks for your time.

 

[m1match]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

When the M14 was king of Highpower competition, 4064 and 4895 were THE go to powders. I shot match tuned .308 Garands in NRA Highpower for 6 years and made Expert with it.

The load recipes were so well known that you hardly had to do any load development.

For 4064, my recipe was Lake City cases, CCI 34, or Win WLR large rifle primers, 42.2 grains of 4064 and a 168 or 175 SMK.

For 4895 the recipe was the same as above except 41.0 to 41.5 gr. of 4895.

Many guys used CCI 200, Fed 215M or CCI BR2 primers. I chose the CCI 34 mil primers because I had a slam fire incident with one of my Garands and CCI BR2 primers, so to minimize the chance of another one, I used the CCI 34s which had a harder primer cup.

Remember the Lake City cases tended to be heavier with less case capacity than commercial cases, so if you are using commercial cases that are lighter with more case capacity, you will need to adjust your powder charges up to get the same velocity. The above loads should do around 2550 to 2600 in a Garand.

I loaded my loads for my match tuned Garands on a Dillon 550B and used the powder measure for 4064 with good results. At my skill level shooting Highpower at 200, 300, 600 yds, using the powder measure worked fine. Now I'm a better shooter with a Master rating at Highpower and Long Range, and when I shoot my precision rifles which are much more accurate than my Garands, I do find the need to weigh all my powder loads. I found that when shooting past 600 yards, I was missing shots high or low which was caused by the my 4064 loads with powder run through the powder measure having too much velocity variation.

What I do is load on my 550B but instead of the powder measure, I use the Dillon Powder Die which has a funnel at the top to manually dump the powder into the case. I keep one toolhead with a complete set of 308 dies for this use.

 

[eclipse57]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

IMR 4895 @ 41.5 grains, CCI 200 primer and 168 SMK's and a COAL of 2.80 is my go to load.

With that said, I am currently shooting less than 600 yards.

I buy the 4895 in the 8 lb jug from Midsouth. I do plan to order some Varget in my next order just because I want to play around with it.

Good luck and keep us posted on your decision.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

My current 4895 30-06 load was used on this target at 200 yards prone with an 03A1 and the issue rear leaf/thin front blade.

Its not a clean but all 27 rounds found the black. I had about a half hour to fire my 3, 27 round ammo batches. This 4895 load was the last, I had less than 10 minutes to fire, and my rifle was smoking hot. I dont think it was ideal shooting conditions for ammo testing.

I'm hoping that I can work from this and find a universal load that will work in my Garand and a second 03A1.

It will be icing on the cake if I can use 4895 for a .308 load that will make the 1" minus groups I see people posting with their LMT's.

As noted the reference and known history is huge. I gleaned my load data from books as well as research on the CMP and Culvers Shooting Forums, Masterpo's, NRA info, etc.

 

[judgedelta]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

At a hundred yards, the 41.5 gr. IMR 4895 load with a 168 SMK in the MWS is a lot more accurate than I am. (brass or primers don't seem to make any difference) Shooting 300+ you might need a hotter load though. There's a thread of go-to .308 loads going on now. Has a lot of good ideas.

 

[BCP]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

IMO they are all good. So whichever works for you.

Having a big drop difference with varget and not 4064 doesn't make sense though. Varget sticks and 4895 sticks are almost the same size while 4064 are lincoln logs.

Ever think about win 748? Ball powder about as stable as 4895 same burn rate, charge weights.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Having a big drop difference with varget and not 4064 doesn't make sense though. Varget sticks and 4895 sticks are almost the same size while 4064 are lincoln logs.

Ever think about win 748? Ball powder about as stable as 4895 same burn rate, charge weights.</div></div>

The powder drops surprised me also. I was believing 4895 would be the worst to work in the Dillon. I dont recall when I used Varget in my loading. If it was first my newby tempo and brand new tools may have played a role. Varget was off as much as 7/10 on one QC check and the drop was leaving sticks all over my shell plate. 4064 had some variance and 4895 usually was within a grn or two. Theory my pulling and powder bar improved with use.


Regards 748 I've seen this mentioned as a good substitute. I played it safe and went with what had the most M1/03 history. I use W231 for my pistol calibers and it pulls to the exact weight if 748 is similar I would have very consistent charges.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Having a big drop difference with varget and not 4064 doesn't make sense though. Varget sticks and 4895 sticks are almost the same size while 4064 are lincoln logs.

Ever think about win 748? Ball powder about as stable as 4895 same burn rate, charge weights.</div></div>

The powder drops surprised me also. I was believing 4895 would be the worst to work in the Dillon. I dont recall when I used Varget in my loading. If it was first my newby tempo and brand new tools may have played a role. Varget was off as much as 7/10 on one QC check and the drop was leaving sticks all over my shell plate. 4064 had some variance and 4895 usually was within a grn or two. Theory my pulling and powder bar improved with use.


Regards 748 I've seen this mentioned as a good substitute. I played it safe and went with what had the most M1/03 history. I use W231 for my pistol calibers and it pulls to the exact weight if 748 is similar I would have very consistent charges.</div></div>

IMR4895 is pretty consistent in same temps. Change temps and it varies a lot. It's the basic uncoated powder IMR developed off of what they made for WWII .30-06 ammo. That is all provided you keep loads at reasonable pressures. Push the pressure limit and you will have wild strings when your barrel heats up. As for metering through a powder measure it's not all that consistent due to it's large size. It's kernels are definitely bigger than H4895's kernels. They are also larger than Varget kernels. IMO, if you are getting a variance of 7/10th's of a grain per throw, you either have a bad lot of powder or need to work on technique. The side benefit of Hodgdon extremes is they throw a LOT more consistent than the old Hodgdon or the current IMR that never got re-formulated.

Personally, for what you want I would run H4895. The extreme series is formulated specifically for not going all over the place when the barrel heats up. Varget will work just as well if you can find it for the same price. For me, I've found the consistency of H4895 to be just as good as Varget without paying the extra $2-$3 for a pound of powder. So, if you can work up a good load with that, that is what I would stick to. Also, remember with your new rifle (and your old Garands) that you don't want to use too slow of a powder. You don't get enough initial pressure and then you'll get too much pressure at the gas port. Which will potentially cause damage to your rifle. Not really a question of if, more of when.

FWIW, any of the ball powders will meter better than kernel type, single based powders. The question is one of "Do you shoot in different temps throughout the year?" if so I wouldn't go with a ball powder. If not, then a ball powder works fine. 748 is a good choice as is TAC, AA2520 and even 760 if you want to use heavy bullets. If using light loads with ball powder, you are going to notice the rifle getting dirty a lot faster. Keep the pressures up and you won't see so much crud building in your rifle.

One powder I would really recommend for your new rifle is IMR 8208 XBR. It is formulated with the latest, greatest technology and meters incredibly well. But, as you noted you want one powder for all you rifles. Which as stated previously, the best would be H4895.

 

[2clicks]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

I love IMR4895! No reason not to use it in .308 or .223
300 yrd rapid fire 198 with 7x's shot Saturday. Not a hot load either. The two left shots were sighters. AR15 service rifle.

Fwiw my 1050 throws IMR4895 +/- a tenth of a grain not bad I did do all the tuning up of the powder throw...

 

[pmclaine]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

2 clicks,

nice target pm sent.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

If you let me know what charge weight you want with 4064 I can load up some 168 SMKs. I can tell you what result might be like out of my 16" LMT MWS at 1,2 and 3 hundred yards. I've been playing with Sierra and Hornady 168s and shot some 2" 5 round groups at 300 the other day with the Hornady and Varget.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you let me know what charge weight you want with 4064 I can load up some 168 SMKs. I can tell you what result might be like out of my 16" LMT MWS at 1,2 and 3 hundred yards. I've been playing with Sierra and Hornady 168s and shot some 2" 5 round groups at 300 the other day with the Hornady and Varget.

</div></div>

Sir,

Thank you for your generous offer, it is appreciated. My 16" CL LMT is expected for delivery end of June but i expect that to be delayed. I'm some months from getting ready to reload for it and I'm thinking I can get a 4895 load to work.

Based on what I see happening/peoples responses with 4895 my thought right now is to go that direction. Its most likely I was the problem, not the powder, but 4064 has been the least desireable of my three loads.

As you develope your loads I would be very interested in what you discover. Please keep me posted either by PM or public posting regards things you learn about your LMT.

 

[mrhog]

Re: IMR 4895 Loads for .308

I use IMR 4895 in my 20" SASS. Pet load is 44grs. under the 175SMK. Right now I'm useing GMM brass but will soon be changing to Winchester. CCI BR primers with a OAL of 2.830. I'm showing 2610fps. This is my go to load. I am able to bang 10" steel plates at 1000yds. with this load.