inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

[BgBmBoo]

Hi gang.

Ok...I spent yesterday doing case prep on 50rds of once fired Black Hills .223 ammo.

To day I actually re-loaded for the first time ever.

I am using RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme press and precision FL dies. Here is the deal. I started checking the COAL on each round I made...I am getting a LOT of inconsistent seating going on. I have to check each round and then put it back in the press. If I set it where it seems correct the next round is to short!?!?

Any ideas on this? Am I doing something wrong? I have read the setup directions a bunch of times and it all looks right...but??

Take care,Stan

 

[wilshire1412]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

If you are getting your measurement from the base of the cartridge to the tip of the projectile at the meplat then there will be variations. Just do a check on your bullets themselves, from the base of the bullet to the tip or meplat and you will see the variation. Seating depth needs to be measured at a point along the ogive or curved section along the side of the bullet, there are tools that can be used for this if you are trying to get an accurate figure.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

You shouldn't be getting to big a variation from base to meplat.

Make sure your brass is all trimmed to the same length/prepped the same etc.

If your brass has different neck thickness from piece to piece this can cause more or less resistance when seating the bullet. Hence it may not seat the same. Also, if you are using a compressed load this can cause a headache or 2.

How much variance are you getting and how are you measuring?

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

Well the "book" calls for a COAL of 2.235" and I am measuring from tip of the bullet to the bottom of the case. I thought that is how you measured for COAL?

The variation is say 2.2330 to 2.237...so is this a "big deal"? Seems like it would be, but again...I am new to all this.

Thanks,Stan

 

[wilshire1412]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

That is not too much of a variation in oal, and probably is the difference in the length of the bullet itself. What bullet is it BTW?

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

I am using Sierra 50gr. Blitz King's. I do a lot of varmint/coyote hunting so I want to build up a good load around this type of bullet.

Take care,Stan

 

[mike1128]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

I have the same problem with my dies. I just bring my micrometer on the die to a "safe" point, to where its not to low, but close enough for me to adjust a few ticks away from each correct length...yea it takes more time but better than just having a bunch of inconsitent rounds.

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

Well if I have to do that with every case I load...that is going to get old fast!

 

[wilshire1412]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

I would get your caliper out and check a half dozen bullets or so and see if you don't see a difference in the bullets that will be the same variation.

Most seating dies to not seat the bullet at the tip or meplat but at a static point along the ogive, usually a short distance from the tip.

If you really want to know the numbers associated with each round that you load then it will require a tool that can take the measurement at a static point along the ogive and not the tip. This gets to be important if you end up getting your COAL set to where the bullet has close to zero jump or is pushed into the rifling when you chamber the round. If you are loading for a semi auto rifle then you should not be anywhere near this length if you can still fit the loaded cartridge int the magazine.

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

Thanks for all the input wilshire...so what is the "work-a-round" for this or is the difference that big of a deal?
I like very accurate rounds....this has always been my big hang up for NOT reloading.
With quality factory ammo I am able to shoot sub 1/2" five shot groups at 100yrds with all my bolt guns...if I am unable to do that with reloads then whats the point? The cost is not that big of a savings now days with the cost of primers,powder,etc., getting very expensive.

Sorry for all the questions but just want to do this right to start with.

Take care,Stan

 

[sniper7mm]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

This is what you need. Spend the $25 bucks and you will be very happy with the OAL of your loads. This will allow your caliper to measure from the same place that your die seats the bullet. I would be willing to bet your loads are all dead nuts on when checked with this.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=231904&t=11082005
Handloading is a blast have fun.

 

[Halfnutz]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

Boo, don't sweat it, It is normal variation in the bullet length. The seater dosen't seat the bullet off of the tip, it seats the bullet by engaging a point a farther back, usually near the ogive. The length to the ogive is what you are concerned with.
The only time COAL will be an issue is if you are trying to fit them in a magazine. The Hornady Lock n Load gages are extremly useful for setting the ogive to lands, as well as KNOWING where to set your size die.

 

[wilshire1412]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

I don't use any of the specialty tools to measure COAL myself, I load primarily for autoloading rifles so as long as it fits into the magazine then I am good.
I have the same variance in the COAL that you are experiencing, and it had me puzzled for a while until I checked the bullets which are not all the same length measured at the meplat. I primarily use 168 or 175gr SMK for .308 and 69 or 77gr for .223 and all have little variations proportional to their size.
I would not worry too much about this with your first batch of ammo, as long as you have the primer in the case correctly seated and an accurately measured powder charge it should be fine. You won't know how accurate the ammo is until you shoot it. After you see the groups on paper then you can start thinking about what else to do with your proceedure.

 

[Halfnutz]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

get these to go with the above linked product


http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=570611
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=290405

Use these: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=479835 to measure fired case length to set your seater die, just bump the shoulder back .001 or .002.

If you don't want the 5pc kit, you wil just need the letter "A"-.330 bushing for .223

The other bushings are need for other calibers .22-250 uses "B", .308 uses "D", 300WM is "E", It is cheaper in the long run to get the 5 pc kit, you'll prolly end up reloading other calibers too.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

" I am able to shoot sub 1/2" five shot groups at 100yrds with all my bolt guns...if I am unable to do that with reloads then whats the point?"

So, how do your reloads shoot?
And, have you yet developed the load or was it just plucked from a book?
What's the OAL variation on the factory stuff you like?

Actually, yeah, OAL IS to the tip. But the rifle couldn't care less where the tip is. It does care, to some degree anyway (7 thou isn't much of a variation) where the bullet strikes the rifling. That's why many of us use bullet "comparitors" to gage proper seating depth, a reading that's taken off the bullet ogive, not the point.

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

Well I just went out and shot three different powder charges...first group was good...what I am use to seeing from that rifle (about 1/2" group) then it all went to hell.
The groups suck badly...very disappointing.

Take care,Stan

 

[grandslam]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NRA-Patron</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is what you need. Spend the $25 bucks and you will be very happy with the OAL of your loads. This will allow your caliper to measure from the same place that your die seats the bullet. I would be willing to bet your loads are all dead nuts on when checked with this.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=231904&t=11082005
Handloading is a blast have fun. </div></div>

NRA Patron is right, buy one of these.......The only way to go when it comes to getting a measurment that you can trust every time.

 

[johngfoster]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

This variation seems about normal. Your bullets will vary that much in their length. The seater die seats from the curve of the bullet. The tip is plastic in these bullets, right? This can vary in length a bit and not matter much. The important part is that the ogive (curved part of the nose of the bullet) contacts the rifling consistently. This is the same part of the bullet that the seater presses against when seating the bullets. Chances are your bullets are all seated to much closer tolerances here than you realize.

As to your results, you probably need a hotter load. Play some more with powder charge weight before giving up on this whole reloading thing. With persistence and patience you will probably find a load that shoots better than factory in your gun. It just takes time.

 

[vinconco]

Re: inconsistent bullet seating w/RCBS "precison" dies

Actually, bullet base to ogive measurement can vary especially with sierra bullets. It seems Sierra combines bullets from different presses into the same lot so sometimes there is a variation in base to ogive length within the same box of bullets and more often between lots. I have seen .010 variations within the same box. Use the Hornady comparator and check it out for yourself.