Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

[our gang]

I've been loading for 50+ years and generally (99%) stick with published data. As I look at my reloading library, I find the 180 gr bullet in a 30-06 with a 24" bbl appears to be a 2700 fps max item. Yet, here on the Hide, I read claims of 3000 fps with 210 gr match bullets. Is it just that a 700 is so very much stronger than most 06's that 70,000 PSI is no problem ? Are we engaging in wishful thinking or risk to life and limb?
I recall once overdoing it in my 721 300 H&H (168 at 3400) and that resulted in the extractor tearing a chunk out of the rim, the primer found on top of the follower and a bit a stout tapping with a steel drill rod to remove the case.
Didn't bother the "three rings of steel" but the case was all done.
Your experiences?

 

[jasonk]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I'm not saying that 3000fps is doable with a 210 bullet, but remember that reloading manuals are written by lawyers, guys at high altitude can push em faster, rifles are stronger, etc.

Lots of variables, that's why reloading manuals make good reference material, start low and work up to find your own safe load.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I like my '06' loads (180s) down at the glacial speeds listed in various manuals. 57 grains of H4350 supposedly causes the 180 grain bullet to dribble out at a sloth like 2750 fps. Too bad it's harmless at that speed.

 

[300WSM]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

talk to montana marine

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I found this on a reloaders website (can't recall which one) when looking for RL25 loads.

"The best performance - at a given pressure for a given weight bullet - is almost always obtained with the slowest burning powder that will fill the case and bring the maximum pressure to the desired level. For example, <span style="font-weight: bold">consider Reloader 25 in a 30-06 using 165 or 180 grain bullets with no higher than 65,000 psi</span>. A standard W<span style="font-weight: bold">inchester 30-06 case will roughly hold 66 grains of R25</span>, when tapped in and the powder compressed by the bullet. Reloader 25 compresses nicely, and with tight case necks the bullet will not be pushed back out by the compressed powder. <span style="font-weight: bold">With a 24 inch barrel, maximum velocity with a 180 bullet will be right at ~3000 fps, and with a 165 grain bullet right at ~3100 fps.</span>
I would NEVER recommend starting with this load, but rather recommend working up to it by starting from 62 grains of R25 - then incrementally increasing the charge by 0.5 grain increments until serious pressure signs develop or you achieve 66 grains.

I'm willing to tolerate "significant" pressure - that is, pressures often used when loading the .270 or some of the newer magnums. (These new magnums look good, because they're being loaded to pressures significantly higher than the older calibers - well over 60,000 psi – even close to 64,000 psi. Hence, the comparisons to the “old” are not fair; remember, the companies want to sell new guns.)"

 

[Falar]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I don't know about 210s @ 3000, but I've seen loads posted here with 208s at 2800-2850.

 

[Sig685]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

Boy, do I feel silly with 2840 FPS in my .308 Winchester with 180gr bullets.

 

[steve marshall]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I can't comment on 30-06 loads but I had A steyr SSG in .308 that I competed in High Power with. I worked up 168's to 3000 fps. I could still use the brass for several more reloads. Bolt lift was normal. It pretty much does depend on the barrel etc. You will never hear of a guy bragging that his 180's go 2200fps but get that into the 3200 range and you will.

 

[Falar]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boy, do I feel silly with 2840 FPS in my .308 Winchester with 180gr bullets. </div></div>

That is moving for a .308, how long is your barrel and what powder are you using?

 

[Chance]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

You have to take into consideration that some of these guys who get some incredibly high velocities are also in some high altitude areas.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I had 208 Amax's going 2500+ in my 22" .308 with N550 at 1500 ft above sea level.

 

[our gang]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

RL25 in an 06? I use RL 25 in my 26" 300 H&H (it is said to be too slow) but with almost a caseful, I get 3100 from a 168 TSX at 7200' elevation with 78 gr. The rifle was made in 1952 and the scope about 1958 (A BalVar 1.5-5 in Leupold Adjustomounts). I can't imagine RL25 working in an 06 as it is slower than 4831SC and 60 gr of 4831SC is a compressed load in the 06'. 4831 SC is also quite a bit denser than RL25. The new Hodgdon 780 is denser than either, and while claimed to "be like 4831" I have found it to be hotter (at least in the 300 H&H). You could stuff a lot of it in an 06'. Still 60K PSI in an 06' is a bunch.
But when my "old/new" Model 70 classic 30-06 arrives, I'll give the both a try. The nice things about 06's is that you can buy them cheap as "everybody knows" they are worthless, inaccurate and bullets from them bounce off Elk! (LOL)

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

Regardless of chamber, there are some variables that can be stacked in favor of higher velocity.

Friction - can be reduced with bullet coatings, reducing pressure and allowing more powder/higher velocity at same pressure.

Combustion Chamber - can be maximized by using roomy brass, neck sizing, and seating bullets out further in many throats.

Optimizing powder - picking the one that will net around 60-62K pressure at 100-105% load density.

I tend to "stack" all these in my favor in the 308 and 30-06 loads.

Altitude affects external basllistics, not internal ballistics.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

Also barrel length is a big player in the 30-06 case, assuming other variables are also being put into play. My 30-06 loads lost 100 fps on cutting the barrel from 26" to 22.5".

 

[our gang]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I open to seeing a chrongraph tape of a 200 gr bullet exiting a 30-06 at 3000 fps.

On bbl length, dead on, my 700 Classic 300 H&H 24" would never do what the 721 26" will.

Wish I could find/afford a M-70 Bull Gun 28" in 300 H&H!

 

[Sig685]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also barrel length is a big player in the 30-06 case, assuming other variables are also being put into play. My 30-06 loads lost 100 fps on cutting the barrel from 26" to 22.5". </div></div>

At the same altitude, barrel length is the BIGGEST factor in determining velocity for a given load. I get 2840FPS for a 180gr bullet in the Houston area with a less-than-max load. I do this with a 32.25 inch barrel. This is NOT a hunting or "tactical" rifle, it is meant for only one thing, accurate LR shooting.

The brass is nice, primers are rounded, chamber is very tight and bullets are not coated.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I haven't seen 200+ grain bullets going 3000fps. The best I've seen from members here is 2850 consistantly.

I will do some testing as soon as I get some RL22.

 

[USSR]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been loading for 50+ years and generally (99%) stick with published data. As I look at my reloading library, I find the 180 gr bullet in a 30-06 with a 24" bbl appears to be a 2700 fps max item. Yet, here on the Hide, I read claims of 3000 fps with 210 gr match bullets.</div></div>

Please supply a link to the thread where someone posts 3000fps with a 210gr bullet in the .30-06. MontanaMarine and myself started exploring high velocity, heavy bullet loads for .30-06 about 8 years ago, and cannot recall anyone making that claim.

Don

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I haven't seen 200+ gr bullets at 3000 fps from a 30-06 either.

Guess I missed that info if it was posted here. Maybe someone has a link?

I was shooting the 208/210s at 2800 fps from my 26" 30-06. They are going 2720 fps since cutting barrel to 22.5".

 

[esorensen]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

Shane, care to post what loads you were using? I only ask because I have an 03-A3 and Garand (will be getting the adjustable gas plug) that I want to start reloading for. TONS of LC and WW brass. I've got bullets from 150's to 210's. I had the Springfield out today and was ringing 12"x18" steel quite handily at 400 using M2 ball.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

My 208/210 load was 60gr RL22 in Norma brass. The throat has advanced some and now I'm loading 61gr to get the same speeds.

Here's my reloading notes for the 30-06. Work up, and definitely not for the Garand unless the adjustable gas system is a known quantity.

30-06 Reload Data

22.4" bbl

------------------------------------------------------------------
Hornady 110gr V-Max, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL 3.20"
Reloader-15
CCI 200
63 gr - 3570 fps
------------------------------------------------------------------
Barnes 130gr TTSX, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.26"
Reloader-15
CCI 200
59.0 gr - 3195 fps
60.0 gr - 3255 fps
61.0 gr - 3315 fps
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Lapua 155gr Scenar, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.30" (3.35" OAL kisses lands, 15Feb08)
Reloader-15
CCI 200
57 gr - 3030 fps (3120 fps via 24”, Win brass)
58 gr - 3110 fps
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Nosler 200gr Accubond, moly’d
Brass: Win
OAL 3.40”
CCI 200
Reloader-22
60 gr – 2710 fps (24” bbl)
61 gr – 2750 fps (24” bbl)
------------------------------------------------------------------

Hornady 208gr AMax, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.46" (3.47" OAL kisses lands, 15Feb08)
CCI-200 primer
Reloader-22
60 gr - 2660 fps - 57K psi
61 gr - 2710 fps - 62K psi
62 gr - 2765 fps - 66K psi
63 gr - 2800 fps - 70K psi, flattening primer
64 gr - 2850 fps - 74K psi, flattening primer, brass flow in ejector, .002" web expansion
-----------------------------------------------------------------



Berger 210gr VLD, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.34" (3.41" OAL kisses lands, 15Feb08)
Reloader-22
CCI 200
60 gr - 2620 fps
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sierra 240gr Matchking
OAL: 3.25"
Brass: Remington
CCI 200
Reloader-22
56.0gr – 2520

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

MM,

A number of year back I worked up 200 gr loads for the 30-06 using N-205. Which was replaced by MRP. Which was replaced by RL22. Though not identical they were all made in the same plant.

I won't show the N205 or MRP loads as they are no longer available. But this was my RL22 load:

My Load notes show:

Ruger #1 B 26" barrel
Cal. 30-06
WW brass
61.5 Grains RL22
Fed 215 Primer
Nosler 200 Gr Partition
Avg Vel 2826 FPS


Bob

 

[esorensen]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

Thanks Shane.

 

[bohem]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about 210s @ 3000, but I've seen loads posted here with 208s at 2800-2850. </div></div>

Yep, I've 2850 and then some. I don't think 3k is a possibility, maybe with a 30" barrel... MAYBE.

My barrel is 26" which is why my loads tend to be a bit faster than the books, most are based on a 24" barrel.

My 208 Amax loads run 2885 at the Chrono 10y out, back at the muzzle the JBM prediction is 2895-2900. I've let a round "cook" and pushed 3060 from the thing one time, if you want I'll load up the cell phone pic of the chrono reading. It was in the middle of astring, I know it wasn't wrong.

The 178 Amax and 180 JLK's run 3030-3050 from the barrel.

RL-22 is the "magic" powder for 30-06 from what I've seen. I didn't know anything about it 4 months ago, now I'm shooting practically anything I can out of it with RL22 to see where I get the velocities.

The H34350 loads say I should get 2750-2800 from 57gr with a 180gr bullet. I'm getting 2925 from that load.

I'm not running more than 65ksi predicted by QL when someone was kind enough to run a check for me on my 208Amax load of 59.5gr in RP brass.

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I know a guy that had a 22" barrel nitrided and comparing it to a 24" barrel the amax's were going 2900 in the 22" and 2675 in the non nitrided one. I think you could push them 3k if the barrel is nitrided but would be tough to if it isnt. It provides alot slicker surface in the barrel. The guy was using 59 grains of 22 to get 2900 out of them.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I dunno about 3000+fps w/ a 210/208 that seems kind of off the top to me. I drive my 210 Bergers and 208 Amax's at 2800 out of Mil Match WCC cases w/ 60.0gr of RE-22. I could pack more powder in there if I seated into the lands but I won't risk the chance of down loading the rifle and ending up with a gun full of powder. Besides 2800 is a nice round number

3K, maybe in an AI chamber, maybe.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[SPAK]

Re: Incredible 30-06 loads??? real or BS

I have a nitrided barrel at 22". I'm getting 2725fps with 59.5gr RL 22 with the 208 amax. Seated to .04" off the lands. No pressure signs here. Still working on Optimal charge weight and accuracy. Accuracy so far was the best seated this far off the lands. But I think the rifle with the right load/depth combo can do better...

 

[GhostFace]

Soak, what kind of barrel do you have and who nitrided it?

 

[lash]

Ummm...Spak posted that last post in 2009, 8 years ago.

Though he apparently still does post here occasionally since his most recent post was in April this year.

 

[GhostFace]

Yeah, I know but it's okay every now and then to bring one back from the dead...