Suppressors Instant Felony ?

[Twisted .308]

I am led to understand anything attached to a barrel that will suppress the noise level is considered a " silencer " ? So what if you had several of your newly lubed rifles or pistols in the safe with filters attached or just say you had one on a rifle and law enforcement stopped by and saw it on your gun ? Big House Time ??? Solvent Trap Adapters

 

[fdkay]

seeing as how these where originally advertised as low cost suppressors, with video's on you tube firing ak's suppressed, I'm thinking a new room mate named Leroy.

 

[rancilio]

No tax stamp for it? Sweat the man looking for you. Best bring your own soap. The big house it is.

 

[cal50]

Go for it but stock up on soap on a rope.

Anything that reduces the sound level falls under NFA and any parts attached to your gun marketed as such removes any doubt of the intent.

 

[rjrivero]

I am led to understand anything attached to a barrel that will suppress the noise level is considered a " silencer " ? So what if you had several of your newly lubed rifles or pistols in the safe with filters attached or just say you had one on a rifle and law enforcement stopped by and saw it on your gun ? Big House Time ??? Solvent Trap Adapters

The Definition of a silencer is found in 921(a)(24). It says,

(24) The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

(Bold added by me for emphasis)

So, if these parts are intended for trapping solvents, then you have a specific reason to have them on the end of your barrel(s) in the safe. If you have holes in the filters, you no longer have a solvent trap. So there is nothing illegal about the solvent trap----per se. There is nothing illegal about putting them on the end of your barrel, per se. Fire a round through it, and you're in trouble.

If indeed the law was as Twisted suggests, Anything that decreases the sound of a gun, it could be argued that a soft case could be considered a silencer.

As noted in the actual law, Intent Matters.

seeing as how these where originally advertised as low cost suppressors, with video's on you tube firing ak's suppressed, I'm thinking a new room mate named Leroy.

With Respect, Tom Cole (Owner of Cadiz Gunworks here in Ohio) has been marketing them as solvent traps long before he marketed them as silencers. In fact he only made them as suppressors to settle an intellectual argument with the NFA Tech Branch. They said he couldn't and he argued with them until they admitted that they were making up the rules as they went along. When he argued them into a corner, they had no choice but to approve the "Econo Can" as a suppressor.

Understandably, these contraptions may be a little too close to the line for comfort for some. If it makes you uncomfortable, then stay away from them.

 

[trophyhunter]

I think the biggest item that comes into play is reasonable intent. Attaching the adapter alone does nothing like a flash hider. Attaching a potatoe on the end of a barrel to act as a muffler is illegal

My understanding is that having these items does not constitute a felony until attached with a oil filter, then at that point a form 1 must be in hand or it's a violation. It's basically the same thing as having several 9" uppers and AR-15's in the house. "Reasonable intent"


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[Twisted .308]

I think I will spend my money on ammo instead of SOAP ! ;-)

 

[southerngolfer]

I think I will spend my money on ammo instead of SOAP ! ;-)

haha, never can go wrong with buying more ammo

 

[Threadcutter308]

With the way the laws are these days, plus overly aggressive Prosecutors, put up your $200.00, wait your turn and do it legally. Don't eff around with "solvent traps", it ain't worth the risk. Always carry hard copies of your paperwork (and on a memory stick) with the weapon/can and e-mail copies of the paperwork to yourself so if you do ever get into a rhubarb with Barney, you can pull up your e-mail/paperwork and that should be the end of it. It's particularly bothersome that in spite of the ability to take legal possession of a can, some people go looking for ways to get themselves into trouble. Yes, the wait time is a pain, but it's less than the amount of time you'd spend in the graybar hotel.

 

[Strykervet]

This an oil filter you speak of? If so, then yes, they've been ruled suppressors. So are empty soda bottles and other disposable DIY methods that are intended to reduce the report of the shot. Some large muzzle brakes that are take apart and have just one baffle inside of the brake are sometimes considered suppressors, despite they aren't even modulators let alone suppressors.

If you can't have cans in your state and really want 'em, then move. It's really the only choice unless a stroke of luck occurs and you have your legislature legalize them and SBRs like here in WA. If it comes to the tax stamp and the cost of the can, then maybe suppressors aren't for you. They aren't for everyone. New laws make individual purchase just as easy as a trust now, but a trust will give you much more freedom and protection and you can have your wife as a co-trustee and have beneficiaries too; you can even loan your cans to these people (though I don't do that). A trust from a good, knowledgeable NFA lawyer is paramount. My NFA lawyer that put my trust together for $500 (another $500 will get me a full estate plan) has perks others don't and is easy and done by a pro. He's also a veteran and NFA collector, so that helps.

After the trust, I got my first can and paid my taxes. Since bought several cans for several rifles and I still use my trust, no way I wouldn't. My wife has her own stuff, and we can use each other's stuff and each of us can buy or sell as they see fit (though we don't sell weapons, only buy keepers). They are also dedicated cans for each rifle and I don't have junk; my cheapest and loudest are my AAC 556SD's (basically a shorter QD version of the M42000 with a less effective baffle stack). But they work on my M4's. Don't really own any multi-can cans nor do I use them that way. All are dedicated. It takes time to do this and money, but persistence pays off.

Bottom line is just to cover your ass. Please. Contact an NFA lawyer in your area, ask them these questions, it's free to get advice usually, and you should consider a trust if you can. Not a DIY, one done by an NFA lawyer, and make sure to include your wife or whoever as a trustee also. If single, you can always add a spouse later and get it now for $250 (from my lawyer). Remember, ATF will okay a can on a faulty trust and if it comes into question, it's your ass, not theirs for okaying it. And each one you got that way will be an additional count. Please cover your ass.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Wholeheartedly agree with what Strykervet just said. Good, good advice.

Keep in mind that if you do end up having to battle something out in court with the Feds, it will cost you a mountain of money just to defend yourself. At best, you will reach ground zero. Meaning; you will have successfully defended yourself against all charges, but it will have cost you a huge amount of money to do so. You will not recoup any monies spent on professional representation, you will not receive a million dollars just because you "won". And that's IF you win.

They (Federal Prosecutors) have stables of attorneys that must justify their existence by winning convictions. So, there are lots of them, all looking for something to do and each of them looking for any way possible to distinguish/promote themselves from within the shark tank. Your ideals and opinions mean nothing to the ATF or the court. The judge could give a shit. Guess what ? it's your blood in the water. You've been invited to the banquet, but you're the only one at the table that didn't get served a napkin and silverware.

You (if you're lucky, only) have one lawyer but he's costing you a fortune by the minute. The Feds have the ability to drag something on for as long they want (taxpayer dollars at work). If that happens to you, the majority of your assets will go to pay for your lawyer's bills. He gets paid by billable hours. And, that's if you don't end up caving and copping a plea before you're bled dry.

Please re-read the last two paragraphs of strykervets advice above. Everyone (understood, with the exception of banned states) has the ability to go the legal route. Each one of us have way too much to lose by going any other route than the legal one.

Stay safe.

 

[07yzryder]

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...trap atf shut down&aqs=chrome..69i57.7016j1j7

theres a list of "solvent trap" suppliers shut down by the ATF.

 

[missed]

They come after you for tax evasion is the big easy one to pin on you that will ruin you. One of the solvent trap guys around here got convicted of felony tax evasion from it.