Advanced Marksmanship Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

[vmpglenn]

I've seen this twice now, once with Monty LeClair (SEAL) on Larry Vicker's TV show shooting the FN SSR and once in this photo from the 1st USASOC Sniper Competition:

Does this technique of not wrapping the thumb around the pistol grip improve trigger control, recoil control, or...? I'd appreciate any insight from folks who may have tried this technique.

 

[blklabs]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

My guess is that is the position his hand needs to be in to get a good 90 degree angle on his trigger finger. This helps facilitatespeller trigger control when pulling straight back instead of back and to the left or right.

I am sure that Frank or someone else with more experience will be able to provide more details for you. Also this is covered under the online training section. An entire lesson is dedicated to trigger control.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

it helps to not induce movement to the rifle while pressing to the rear. one of the reasons alot of people shoot better with a bolt action conventional stock than with the more modern grip designs. pistol grip is awesome for weapon retention, not so much for precision. (unless of course you adapt) im sure others can add more to this but i say good on em for attention to detail and good fundamentals.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

A lot of guys <span style="font-style: italic">"float"</span> their thumb with both the SR type rifle and the AICS as used with rifles like the Mk13.

it facilitates the 90 degree trigger finger.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

Seeing how the shooter is a southpaw, it could be so he can operate the safety/selector.

I wrap my thumb, but have to do the "reach around" to manipulate the safety. I suppose an ambi safety would be the way to go.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

The forward hand postioning doesn't look too supportive either, but it looks like the stock is too long with all the battle gear on, so the shooter is making due.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

You mean like this:

This is from this last weekends Tiger Valley match shooting at 300 yards. This is how I shoot all rifles. Like Frank said, it helps keep your trigger finger at the proper angle. It doesn't matter the stock, I always line up this way.

 

[rero360]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

He also could be shooting support side, which would explain the whole position looking slighty off, although looking at the mud on him it does look like he just got done doing an urban prone on his left hand side. Either way, looks like a fun way to spend the day.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

i say this guy's right handed but firing to his right so switched lefty, judging by the placement of his secondary mags. i could be wrong...but when im firing to my right i often switch hands for ergonomics sake.

 

[ubet]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

On my bolt gun, i dont wrap my hand around the stock, in fact I barely touch the stock with my strong hand. If I do grip it, I end up muscling my rifle and pulling shots. For me the only thing that touches is the meat right under my thumb (and thats just barely), and my trigger finger.

 

[ubet]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You mean like this:

This is how I shoot all rifles. </div></div>

You always shoot off of someones back?

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

LOL! No, it was from the Tiger Valley match this last weekend. We could use our partner as a rest for that portion of the stage. I just saw this picture which had the same thumb placement.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

Now I know I haven't kept up with weapon systems, lots of things have changed since I was trained on the M-21 and taught sniper schools using the M1C/Ds

BUT

Some things don't change, and that being the grip of the shooting hand.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the rifle stock is gripped by the shooting hand in much the same way one takes a "firm hand shake" which will allow the trigger finger to lay naturaly on the trigger, allowing for a smooth trigger pull straight to the rear with out disturbing your sight picture and natural point of aim</div></div>

As I said, some things don't change. A firm grip, WITH THUMB rapped around the pistol grip of the stock, had been taught for ever. Stressed when Gen Pershing commissioned Col. A.J. Macnab to come up with T.R. 150-5 (Training Regulation 150-5)"FUNDAMENTALS OF MILITARY RIFLE TRAINING, which is pretty much the same thing the AMU and Marines teach in the Small Arms Firing Schools today. Its the same method that was taught in the AMU's Sniper School (dont know what Bennings school teaches but I bet its the same). Its the same method taught in the CMP's Master Instructor Course, and the AMU/CMP SDM Courses.

I don't see reasoning for the change. I wonder if it isn't a posed photo, or like others said, the shooter being left handed is reaching for the safety. Not to mention the loose sling flopping around in the breeze is not inductive of a good position.

It's about grip of the rifle, that photo dosn't reflect grip, this one from the AMU Sniper School does,

 

[DaveV]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

Doesn't Lamb call this "Broke Back prone"?

 

[bmt]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A lot of guys <span style="font-style: italic">"float"</span> their thumb with both the SR type rifle and the AICS as used with rifles like the Mk13.

it facilitates the 90 degree trigger finger. </div></div>

I do this.

I have a BIG HAND with short clubby fingers.

I cannot get the pad of my trigger finger on the trigger unless is "loosen" my grip on the stock.

BMT

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

When I was active in the Corps, I went through Boot Marksmanship Training employing the M-14. At 6' 5 1/2", the LOP was so short on me that I ended up with a bloody nose from crossing my thumb across the pistol grip. My solution was to lay my thumb parallel to the trigger finger along the right side of the receiver. Even then, the receiver was in solid contact with my eyeglass lens (and they <span style="font-style: italic">were</span> glass back then), so I was forced to do my rifle practice and qualification without my glasses.

Greg

 

[HotrRod308]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

I shoot an AICS and received a little coaching from CKA on the the grip Chad is using. It really tightened up my shooting with the AICS...plus that position allowed for faster bolt manipulation and less movement of the rifle...no hand induced torque on the stock..
Works for me.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

I don't wrap my thumb over. I just place it at the rear of the tang on he 700. On the AR type systems I have tried it both ways and I prefer to use a standard grip.

On my AI I tried it both ways and prefer my thumb through the thumbhole. It has no impact on the speed of my bolt manipulation.

 

[Graham]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

I use both techniques with my AE: thumb through the stock when I need to grip and manipulate the rifle; thumb on the side when prone on a bi-pod.

The AICS folder works well for weak-side shooting using this technique: rest your thumb on the stock catch.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

Anyone see the thumbrest on Elesio's tubeguns? Made just for that grip:

That said, I usually go with thumb centered on the tang on boltguns, and around the grip on AR-style rifles.
I did AI style stocks both ways in the past.

 

[Oodin]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

I also float my thumb so I can get the 90* trigger finger.

 

[Lexington]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

I'm a rookie and I've been laying my thumb on the same side of the stock as my trigger finger because it feels like the trigger finger is better isolated for a straight backwards pull without the influence from a squeezing grip. I thought I'd be criticized for it by anyone who knew better, but I can see by the posts here that I am not alone.

 

[greentimber]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A lot of guys <span style="font-style: italic">"float"</span> their thumb with both the SR type rifle and the AICS as used with rifles like the Mk13.

it facilitates the 90 degree trigger finger. </div></div>

+1

 

[Wicked Weapons]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

As a Lefty shooting right bolt/right port guns, I lay my left thumb parallel to my left index finger on the left side of the stock and do not wrap it around the grip. This way I can operate the bolt with my off hand and not tear up my left thumb with the rear of the bolt.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

he would have made a great shooter

 

[bigwill214]

Re: Interesting thumb placement for precision shooting

This is actually the first that I have seen this and heard of it. I think I may have to give this a shot and see if there is any noticable difference in how things feel as I shoot. I am open to new techniques if it has the possibility to improve my shooting.