interpreting range results...thoughts please?

jayd4wg

Sergeant
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Minuteman
Aug 12, 2009
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Steel City
I went out again to (re)test my handloads on Sunday.  I changed brass from Winchester to CBC for reasons I won't explain here again...but let's just say my findings were mundane and left me wondering what I should do.

Once again, my loads are:
150gr Hornady 3031 SP's
CBC brass
Varget powder
CCI primers
COL 2.800 (had a couple at 2.799 - probably due to soft lead points)

As for case prep - I deprime, clean the primer pockets with the little Lee tool, pass the appropriately sized drill bit thru the flash hole (don't remeber the size...but it's hand turned only and does not remove metal, just carbon and "gunk"), then I cut all brass using the Lee Case Trimmer - 2.180"   - while the brass is in the drill chuck, i hit the inside of the neck with a bronze brush to clean the neck out, and I polish the neck area with fine steel wool.  no tumbling yet.

Once again, I started with 44.0 grains and worked up to 46.5 in half grain inc's.  I also tried a group just using the standard 3.1cc dipper Lee provides with their kit.  As you will see, the 42.4 gr charge is not well liked.

First target - 44.0 gr - 5 shots, inconclusive.  although 3 rounds touched - 2 were way out there and this was not a flinchy load.  Very low recoil, and shot 1 was cold bore fouler shot.  It landed in the group of 3 touching.  So it means nothing...other than cold bore and 5 shots down the road are alll the same.  the spread shots were 2 and 4.  1,3,5 all in the center grouping.

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Second target 42.4gr, 5 shots...don't like the load, this is the 3.1cc load with the supplied Lee dipper just to satisfy curiosity.  If nothing else I learned that I can attain consistent results with the dippers provided i keep my technique the same.  I was really surprised how well you can do with just using the dipper and your drivers license.  i was +/- 0.1 gr on every load.  I loaded them as is, did not adjust, but I did measure each one on the scale prior to loading the round.

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Up next is 44.5 gr, a load that showed promise with the winchester brass and this time does well again.  one called flier high and left (hearbeat was horrible with all the caffeine before hitting the range) and I will either load this up with the rest of my bullets and powder and call it a day...or may get froggy and try to bracket the next load up.  Not sure yet.  I can handle .5-.75" groups for hunting.

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this next one was the best load out of the winchester brass...and it did HORRIBLE with the CBC brass.  I will not be using this load - 45.0 gr varget.
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this next one has me scratching my head too.  First shot was high center.  I dropped down six clicks fearing I might send one off the paper, and then the POI shifted to the left as well.  could be wind, shooter error, God, Satan, ...who knows.  Could be an interesting load...but wait...there's more!

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This next group has the first sign of true consistency i have seen from any of my handloads.  Coupled with the smaller group on the previous load, I think I need to work on the 45.5 - 46.0 loads.  Recoil is a bit higher, but there are no signs of pressure and if the group tightens up, we may have found a honey spot.  I also like that this group is more horizontaly strung than vertically.  Shows that the barrel is close to its OCW IMO.  
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Last up is 46.5 gr, and though it's not IMPRESSIVE, it's not unimpressive either.  Viable PA hunting load, a bit more recoil than I'd like, but USEABLE...which is helpful, because this is where the Lee 3.4cc dipper puts me.  Again, I'll get a 3.4 dipper and sand it down until i get to the ~46gr honey spot.

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anyone else see anything that stands out? Think i should load up a bunch more at 44.5gr and call it a day until i'm out of bullets or powder or both? Or should I work on the 46.0 load? Plenty accurate enough for deer and 6" plates up to and including 500 yards. *I* am not that good, but at least the rifle shows promise. hell, I don't even think i could SEE a 6" plate that far away. I have total confidence that I could hit a 12" square though, and my begin doing this locally just to keep the confidence up for deer season.
 
Re: interpreting range results...thoughts please?

what range (yrds) are you shooting at? personally I don't like any of the groups if shot at 100yrds, looks to me that you are changing your position and affecting your Natural Point of Aim,

I'm not trying to be an ass but how strong of a shooter do you consider yourself, If you're normally used to achieving way tighter groups then I'd be looking at what conditions you where shooting in ie. how strong was the wind that day? how stable was the shooting platform/bench?

If it could be you then how well did you call each shot (did it feel good, trigger snatching, flinch)? how well did you manage the recoil ( did the cross hairs stay on target during and after the shot broke)? how much do you dry fire?

but if I had to pick 44.0gr and 44.5gr. I'd retry several groups with each and then I'd fine tune the one i liked best in .2gr incriments to see if I could get it any better.

good luck

caustic
 
Re: interpreting range results...thoughts please?

Sir,
What are you shooting? Have you ever produced good groups with factory ammo or other ammo. It seems, from what you say, that you are doing the stuff that takes a group from .510 to .423. It is not much help in getting you from 2.75 to .75. Have you tried a known good shooter? Known good rifle, known good scope? I think you should get the big stuff fixed prior to sweating the small stuff. Hope this helps.
 
Re: interpreting range results...thoughts please?

jasonB,

A couple of things stand out:

Groups 3, 6 & 7 are virtually on top of one another. Look where they are on the paper, which is great if you used the same aiming point.

Groups should open or close, POI should move, slightly, with each new load. But several groups have a wildly divergent POI.

The cause may be you, or not allowing your rifle to cool between groups. Or your shooting technique off of bench or bi-pod needs work.

You rifle wants to shoot. Can I presume that this is a light barreled sporter?

Now a couple of questions:

Why 2.80" for your loads?
Why did you stop @ 46.5 grains of Varget?
Are you considering trying other 150 gr bullets?
Did you do any cleaning between groups?

Bob
 
Re: interpreting range results...thoughts please?

It looks to me like the 46 and 46.5g loads have the same POI. I would load 46-47 grains in 0.2g increments and see what POI looks like. If all similar POI, I would pick the load in the middle as your OCW charge and work on OAL changes to see if you can tighten it up.
 
Re: interpreting range results...thoughts please?

I was kinda holding back on the 100 yard range until someone fingered technique (or lack thereof) as the culprit. I admit, i could use more trigger time. Prior to buying the 308, I spent ALOT of time throwing 22mag at the 100 yard line. Probably learned alot of stuff I need to unlearn because of the lack of recoil

During yesterdays session, I had a hard time keeping the bipod screw tight. it would loosen up every couple shots. I had the harris bipod on a no-slip mat, and was able to maintain sight picture about 50% of the time when the 'pod was "properly" loaded. I do appreciate the input on technique and have yet to find a mentor worth his salt or time near me who has time to spend. Partly my fault though too, I have a couple PM's from guys within 50 miles of me that I could, and probably SHOULD call up. a couple hours working on technique unlearning some things may work wonders.

rth1800, .75 to 1.0 are the norm with federal 150gr SP's (walmart $14/box ammo). The scope does not seem to be the culprit...i'm more prone to think it's the nut behind the butt.

TimK, screws are all tight and the pressure from the pillars is even. I'm toying with the idea of sanding out the barrel channel to float it. The only reason I've thought to do this is because the shots REALLY walk on 5th or 6th consecutive shot if no time for cooling has been allowed. i mean like 4-5" away at 100yds. Free floating and bedding the action COULD fix this, but then again that much shooting is outside the scope of this rifle.

Bob, yes, sporter weight barrel, 2.80" just because (the throat in this rifle is immesurably deep for the tools I have available. Could be .25" past the current load, maybe more. Not sure how i can tell...or measure, without buying more tools. I stopped at 46.5 b/c on the last go round I started flattening primers and had 2 stuck rounds at 47.0 I also did not like how the groups opened up again after 46.5 last time, I figured it to be a waste of time and powder. Trying to keep things in the perceived accuracy node or as well as I can shoot it in this range.

as far as cleaning, 2 passes of the bore snake between sets. I CLEANED it after hunting season ended and it's only had about 80 rounds thru it since then. The bore snake does well with powder residue, but does nothing with copper. the rifle's had about 300 rds total since I bought it...some would say hardly broken in?
 
Re: interpreting range results...thoughts please?

Go find the guys who offered the help and take them up on it. And stop cleaning. It takes my rifle 3-4 shots after cleaning to settle down and shoot properly. I now clean only when accuracy drops off, and that is in the hundreds of rounds. If you're cleaning between groups, that might account for a lot of your trouble. Try fouling the bore, then shooting all your groups without ever cleaning.

You might also poke around here on that subject. There are some recent threads that you'll find very enlightening.
 
Re: interpreting range results...thoughts please?

i feel your "bad" groups lies moslty with your equipment and not really you. Becuase you got some rounds to come within 1/2in your probably a decent shooter. You did not mention your rifle or your dies. Lee cutter is junk, and some of your prep is excessive or even detrimental, you should look into k&m or sinclair products for preping primer pockets and cases .You need to use match bullets. You probably need to upgrade allot of your stuff if you want to see better results.