Introduction and questions from a beginner

[jtl0101]

Hey everyone. I've been reading the forum for a few weeks and just picked up a Stevens 200 in .308 the other day. The previous owner put a Savage 10fp stock on it and it had the scope package (Simmons Blazer 3-9) when he purchased it new. I took it out shooting on Saturday and was impressed with the group at 100 yds using prvi 168 grain match ammo.

First question: At 100 yards my groups were 1 inch low of bullseye and all pretty close together, within 2 inches. I went to 200 yards and shot 5 shots and only 1 shot hit the paper (bottom left corner). Should I see this much difference from 100 to 200 yds? I was letting the gun cool for a couple minutes between shots.

Second question: I would like to do some upgrades. You guys know much more than me, so where should I start. My budget is less than $400 right now for upgrades. I was thinking a rifle basix trigger first. Next I wanted to get egw base, some decent rings and a scope. I wanted the Weaver 3-10x40 at Midway but it just went off sale and I don't want to spend $400 on it. Does anyone know if that scope goes on sale very often? I will be shooting at 400 yards max for now. Maybe I should get the Bushnell 10x scope for now or wait for a sale on something else.

Thanks for your input.

 

[excess]

Re: Introduction and questions from a beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoshAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
First question: At 100 yards my groups were 1 inch low of bullseye and all pretty close together, within 2 inches. I went to 200 yards and shot 5 shots and only 1 shot hit the paper (bottom left corner). Should I see this much difference from 100 to 200 yds? I was letting the gun cool for a couple minutes between shots.
</div></div>

Josh I've never shot 168s before but I found a chart for Federal Gold Metal Match 168s. If the chart is accurate, the bullet will drop about 4.5 inches from a 100 yard zero going to 200 yards. I imagine the Privi is comparable to the FGMM in this regard. So, I guess it depends how big your target is.

I also don't know if the PP ammo is worth a shit - never tried it. Maybe pick up a box of Federal next time and see if your results improve.

If not I'd say stay at 100 for awhile and work on technique.

 

[gbird001]

Re: Introduction and questions from a beginner

We're going to need a bit more info to help you. When you went to 200yds did you dial any elevation onto your scope? Was your point of aim at the center of the bulls eye? What size were your targets (ie how far from the center of your target is the bottom left corner where you hit)? Was in an outdoor range? was it a windy day?

 

[kd185]

Re: Introduction and questions from a beginner

better off picking up a GOOD used scope than chasing down a new weaver
IMHO

 

[JB02]

Re: Introduction and questions from a beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kd185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">better off picking up a GOOD used scope than chasing down a new weaver
IMHO</div></div>

If you're looking for new optics, I suggest the Nikon Monarch (4-16X42 mildot)...you can find them for less than $400.

A trigger upgrade might help with accuracy issues. Shop around.

 

[jtl0101]

Re: Introduction and questions from a beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We're going to need a bit more info to help you. When you went to 200yds did you dial any elevation onto your scope? Was your point of aim at the center of the bulls eye? What size were your targets (ie how far from the center of your target is the bottom left corner where you hit)? Was in an outdoor range? was it a windy day? </div></div>

I did not dial in any elevation, but I aimed 2 inches higher than the bullseye. The targets were 12"x12", with a center bullseye and 1" grid lines. The one shot that hit the paper was approximately 5" low and 5" left. It was an outdoor range and was windy, but the range is surrounded by 50-75 foot hills/bluffs on both sides. Next time I go out I think I will put some 24" wide paper behind so that would give me a better idea.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: Introduction and questions from a beginner

Josh,
I ran some hypothetical numbers for your rifle at JBM ballistics (see following link) to get some idea of the drop you should expect.


http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

With a 22" 10-twist barrel, I guessed at about 2575 fps muzzle velocity (Privi gives a test value with a 24" standard test barrel of 2608 fps) for your Stevens 200. I also fudged up a couple other numbers including scope height and atmospheric conditions to get the following drop table:

According to the numbers you gave for your point of aim at 200 yd and target dimensions, your elevation was in the neighborhood of 8" (7.6 MOA, 2.2 mil) low at 200 yd. This is really a lot more than you should expect with that rifle/ammo combination. The first question I would ask is what were the actual atmospheric conditions when you were shooting? Specifically, was it very cold? One possibility is that the muzzle velocity is much lower than 2575 fps, although that would only account for a small part of the drop you observed. Very cold temps might lower your muzzle velocity by 25-50 fps.

Another question would be are you sure it was 200 yd and not 250 or 300 yd? That much of a drop over the predicted value of 2.0 MOA may be the result of several factors including atmospheric conditions, muzzle velocity, distance, and you as the driver.

My suggestion would be to go back to 100 yd and get your scope dialed in to be dead on, then see what you get at 200 yd with the larger target as you mentioned. If you know someone with a chronometer, you might also try to get a reading on your muzzle velocity. Once you get dialed in at 100 yd, I would also recommend shooting several groups of 5 shots and use those to determine your average maximum spread (measure the two holes farthest apart in a single 5-shot group from center to center) and take the average of all the groups. As you're shooting the groups, focus on fundamentals of holding your point of aim, breathing, even trigger pull, etc. This should give you some idea of the rifle's accuracy (precision) in your hands and give a good reference point for your future shooting endeavors with your setup.

I would also recommend signing up for the Sniper's Hide online training forum; it will possibly help you a lot with your fundamentals. In any event, good luck with it and Welcome to the Hide.

 

[gbird001]

Re: Introduction and questions from a beginner

Hmmmm...the wind could still be a factor, wind tends to follow the topography like water over a rocky river bed, so even with hills and bluffs on both sides there can be wind in there, and the wind down range may be pretty different the wind at your firing line. from a 100 yd zero you're going to want to dial around 2 min of elevation to go to 200, (which equates to 4" at 200yds) but from what you say, you should have still been on that paper.
Since you didn't make any scope adjustments it's hard to know if it's the scope.
Here are a few things I would do if I were you...
1) Give that rifle a good once over and make sure all of the bolts and screws are nice and snug. If you have a torque wrench and can find the specs for your rifle, scope and rings that would be great, but at the very least, make sure everything is snug. Also take a dollar bill and slide it between the barrel and stock, you should be able to run it all the way back to the action without any interference. If you're not feeling qualified to do this, any gunsmith should be capable of doing it for you.
2) Get a box each of a variety of ammo, Hornady, federal, some 168 some 175 ect.. and do some test and tune see what your rifle prefers, ie. which groups best for you at 100yds, I like to do 5 shot groups personally. Ammo is to rifles as ice cream is to people, there are a lot of flavors and everyone has their own individual favorite, some are more picky than others.
3) When you shoot you may not want to wait several minutes between shots. Shoot 3 to 5 round groups. Rifles, like many precision mechanical systems, work best at a certain operating temperature and if you are letting it cool below that between shots, accuracy may suffer, conversely, a 5 round group shouldn't be enough to over heat your barrel. Shooting groups also eliminated any variation in your shooting position from shot to shot. Keep your head on the stock between shots.
4) putting a larger sheet of paper behind your target is a great idea, but to avoid that hassle, what I like to do when I'm not on paper is fire a few group holding off to the edge of my target (or the paper it's on) at the 3, 6, 9, and 12 o'clock positions until I see bullet strikes then make adjustments accordingly. Of course, that will use more ammo.
5)As for your scope, you'll want to know if it is tracking properly and maintaining it's zero. My personal procedure is as follows, set up 2 targets at 100yds. verify your zero on the first target. then on the fresh target, fire a round through the center, dial 3min of elevation, fire a 3 round group, dial 3min back down to zero, fire another round. repeat this 3min to the right & back, then down, then left... when your done if your scope is tracking and coming back to zero properly you should have a group in the middle, with a group 3" above it, 3" below it, and 3" to either side of it. if that's what you get then the scope is functioning properly. Be aware, loose and/or cheap rings and bases will also fail this test.

Best of luck to you.

 

[johnnycat]

Re: Introduction and questions from a beginner

As far as upgrades I'd drop the whole $400 into optics.

 

[jtl0101]

Re: Introduction and questions from a beginner

I really appreciate all the tips from you guys, especially from gstaylorg and doc.308. I am literally brand new to precision shooting so these tips are very much appreciated and I plan on utilizing them at my next range session.

 

[carterjoe]

Re: Introduction and questions from a beginner

The Weaver goes on sale just about every other month for 299 at Midway. Great scope for the money. Like almost everyone will tell you, you should spend as much on the scope as you do on the gun.