- Thread starter chanrobi
- Start date
The top 3 are:
1. Kidd
2. Kidd
3. Kidd
I semi-joke. Volquartsen was the top dog for years and are still good, but Kidd has surpassed them. Tandemkross is good for some race-specific things like their magazines, but part for part, Kidd runs away with it. Ordering a barreled action with trigger or a complete rifle from Kidd is guaranteed happiness. A couple of other reasons to go straight Kidd, no fear of tolerance-stacking various parts and better resale than some franken-ruger.
1. Kidd
2. Kidd
3. Kidd
I semi-joke. Volquartsen was the top dog for years and are still good, but Kidd has surpassed them. Tandemkross is good for some race-specific things like their magazines, but part for part, Kidd runs away with it. Ordering a barreled action with trigger or a complete rifle from Kidd is guaranteed happiness. A couple of other reasons to go straight Kidd, no fear of tolerance-stacking various parts and better resale than some franken-ruger.
Awesome, i'm seeing kidd thrown around a lot ...
Now does that 1 moa hold at like 200-300m? I'm mainly doing long range .22lr with my tikka t1x, would be cool to get a semi auto doing the same thing...
More or less
From my experience. The semis were doing great up to 150. 200 was still a contender for stuff like clay challenge. Past that it was all bolt guns. That’s going to be a challenge for sure to keep up with a RimX or 457/T1X with a match chamber and a sub 10of trigger. You’ll get quite a bit more vertical.
Keep the semi for the know your limit at 50 and 100 yards. Lot of fun hitting that 1/4in target at 50.
if you can shoot a group that sized yes the gun can't do anything unless your skills with that gun are up to snuff . best of luck to you what ever gun you decide to get .
I have a full Kidd rifle. It shoots really well. I have a 300 yard plate at my house that I can ding with minimal effort. That said the environmental effects on .22 in general would, at least in my opinion, make claiming long range performance stuff rather difficult. Wind and other things are magnified when you are talking about long range .22 shooting.
By that I mean with a 5mph cross wind at 300 yards a 69 grain SMK might drift 6 inches. In the exact same conditions a .22 bullet might drift 18 inches at the same distance. Basically at distance how much of it is your ability to call wind (or not) and how much of it is actually the gun?
That said the rifle is still dependent on good ammo for maximum performance. If you aren't willing to put in the time to test ammo and then pay for the good stuff then you may or may not get excellent results.
By that I mean with a 5mph cross wind at 300 yards a 69 grain SMK might drift 6 inches. In the exact same conditions a .22 bullet might drift 18 inches at the same distance. Basically at distance how much of it is your ability to call wind (or not) and how much of it is actually the gun?
That said the rifle is still dependent on good ammo for maximum performance. If you aren't willing to put in the time to test ammo and then pay for the good stuff then you may or may not get excellent results.
Are you a builder or a shooter?
I’ve owned over 20 factory Ruger 10/22s, of those only 1 was sub MOA at 50 yds unaltered. That’s a bad ratio, but it’s still a fact.
I’ve built several with aftermarket barrels, and have friends who have put even more into theirs, and all would make sub MOA easy at 50.
I’ve owned over 20 factory Ruger 10/22s, of those only 1 was sub MOA at 50 yds unaltered. That’s a bad ratio, but it’s still a fact.
I’ve built several with aftermarket barrels, and have friends who have put even more into theirs, and all would make sub MOA easy at 50.
I bought a Kidd recently, and MOA groups are definitely routine with mine. I think accuracy beyond 200 is more a function of ammo and wind than action type. At extended ranges would a bolt be more inherently accurate? Probably, but that advantage is likely not realized based again on ammo consistency and wind
My 2 cents on the long range question - I have a Kidd Super Grade, and a Kidd Classic with the ultralight weight barrel. My daughter shoots the classic in NRL22 competitions, and I have shot the super grade in a few. The super grade has been lot tested by Lapua for Center X.
The SG shoots sub MOA at 50 yards, and things open up to slightly over MOA at 100. So far I have identified accuracy impacts between my PDC chassis and Magpul Hunter X22 stock (with magpul being more consistent). I also have identified one magazine that consistently produces better groups than others, especially when loaded to only 5 rounds. But the thing that still confuses me is the muzzle velocity variation from round to round. That is what will kill your groups at 150 yards and further. My vudoo shoots lot tested center X, and the variation is always lower with that platform.
Kidd’s two stage trigger is sweet. The gun is a full on blast to shoot. But I would probably not spend $1,300 again on a Kidd action if I wanted to hammer away with tiny groups at 100 yards and beyond. I would find a few hundred more bucks, and buy another vudoo.
The SG shoots sub MOA at 50 yards, and things open up to slightly over MOA at 100. So far I have identified accuracy impacts between my PDC chassis and Magpul Hunter X22 stock (with magpul being more consistent). I also have identified one magazine that consistently produces better groups than others, especially when loaded to only 5 rounds. But the thing that still confuses me is the muzzle velocity variation from round to round. That is what will kill your groups at 150 yards and further. My vudoo shoots lot tested center X, and the variation is always lower with that platform.
Kidd’s two stage trigger is sweet. The gun is a full on blast to shoot. But I would probably not spend $1,300 again on a Kidd action if I wanted to hammer away with tiny groups at 100 yards and beyond. I would find a few hundred more bucks, and buy another vudoo.
Chanrobie, Here's a thought . . . try something other than a 10/22 -> https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-product/cz-512-tactical .
they're available in "Standard" config as well as Tac. Once you spend $$$ to get a Ruger to hit consistently at MOA ". . . you coulda had . . . " a better rifle. . . like almost any other in each price range. One to avoid - Savage A22 semi - I have one and it's looking for another home ;-) ! Really unacceptable overall.
they're available in "Standard" config as well as Tac. Once you spend $$$ to get a Ruger to hit consistently at MOA ". . . you coulda had . . . " a better rifle. . . like almost any other in each price range. One to avoid - Savage A22 semi - I have one and it's looking for another home ;-) ! Really unacceptable overall.
I just did a Appleseed 200 yard known distance and got my patch with Kidd barreled action with Kidd trigger in a Boyd's Pro Varmint stock. I was super stoked...but make no mistake, it took a lot of dialing in my gear and tons of shooting to figure out what worked best. To OP, I think there are so many variables to shoot 1 MOA at 100y. Wind, ammo, YOU... I can say I can more regularly do 1 MOA at 100y with my cz 457 with Walter barrel. I don't expect MOA on the 10/22 at 100y but when it happens its cool. With my luck, I get 4 in a tight group and then a flyer...I curse the gods all the time...but its on me.
But I have way more fun shooting with my 10/22. During my KD, we had to do some crazy holds for wind. I mean, I wasn't used to that much wind and at that distance...but man, I learned a ton and gained so much confidence. Damn that Kidd cost me a lot in time, ammo, and money..but it was oh so fun.
OP, BTW, if you are interested in learning to shoot your 10/22 well, I recommend you go to an appleseed. Invest in yourself first, and get the gear later. The most expensive gear in the world won't do you squat if you don't have your technique squared away.
But I have way more fun shooting with my 10/22. During my KD, we had to do some crazy holds for wind. I mean, I wasn't used to that much wind and at that distance...but man, I learned a ton and gained so much confidence. Damn that Kidd cost me a lot in time, ammo, and money..but it was oh so fun.
OP, BTW, if you are interested in learning to shoot your 10/22 well, I recommend you go to an appleseed. Invest in yourself first, and get the gear later. The most expensive gear in the world won't do you squat if you don't have your technique squared away.
I have 4 10/22's that are sub moa up close with CCI SV, 100 it's close if there isn't any wind and beyond that not so much, but they hang with my Bergara out to 200 just fine. 2 moa target at 200 isn't difficult. None are stock, in fact the only ruger part on any of them is the trigger which isn't stock either.
That is some nice shooting with a 22 I love shooting LR with the 22 rf .
My 10/22 is fully customized, the only original parts left in it are the receiver housing and the bolt body. Everything else is Valquartsen...Includig the 16" carbon fiber match grade barrel. It shoots MOA or better at 100 yards, and occasionally I can get MOA at 200 yards out of it with bulk pack CCI SV ammo.
My Tacsol X-ring takedown was printing right at MOA at 50 yards when I zero’d it recently with only a 1-4NXS and some cheap Norma tac-22 I had left over from years ago which kind of surprised me. I didn’t have high hopes for the accuracy or return to zero of the takedown system but it’s actually excellent so I’m looking to put more magnification on it to shoot it a bit further.
It can be done but in my experience, it's going to take a $1000to $2000 investment ( base 10/22 cost plus kidd/volquartsen everything plus stock) to get there. Even then, there are no guarantee's ( unless you go teh entire super grade route) . Personally, I feel investing in a bolt gun (cz/tikka/Bergarra is a safer bet.
I have an older, like 20 years or so 10/22T it shoots .5-.75 with good ammo. Moreso to the .75
I call bullshit on this.
Shopruger, buy their heavy, go buy the trigger kit that Brimstone is selling through a distributor.
Then the rest of the stuff will be reading up for knowledge.
Sure,I can go buy a tone of kidd parts and have a great rifle but what would the new person be learning?
I agree with Ravenworks, I built up a 10/22 that shoots consistent half MOA at baoth 50 and 100 yds. All you really need is a KIDD barrel! My total cost was $650. Brownell receiver, Ruger BX trigger, Ruger factory bolt and charge handle, pins, and Magpull X2 Hunter stock. There are 4 other built up 10/22's at my club that shoot as well, all have KIDD barrels.
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I already have a Tikka T1x, so i'm good.
I'm looking just to get close to the performance of my T1x/CZ457 territory with a semi auto in .22lr
Can you share a picture of 5-10 groups on one target that are 1/2 MOA? I would love to see it. My supergrade will do 1/2 MOA for 2-3 groups, then open up to 1 MOA at 50. I’ve never seen 1/2” groups at 100 out of my 10/22s. My Vudoo and CZ 457 - that’s another story.
I've got 4 that are far less than that cost that will easily do 1 moa at 50, close at 100. Two I built for my nephews were at 750 but that included scoped and cases.
I don't shoot 5 to 10 groups on one target. Where I shoot conditions are very bad normally and one is lucky to get steady reads for a couple of groups at one sitting. You can believe what I posted or not, I know what my rifle is capable of and so do those that shoot against me.
I knew that reply would elicit this type of response. Believe it or not. Here is a pic of 2 consecutive 5 shot groups at 50 yds.
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My friend owns a warehouse. We have had little shooting competitions in there at 25 and 50 yards using a custom made steel backstop. No wind to have to deal with so ammo testing has been fun.
His 10/22T shoot really amazing for what it is. All he has upgraded is the trigger. He has never shot at 100 but I have seen it turn out .25" groups with SK Standard at 50 yards.
Be sure to check out "The whole box thread"
Velocity ES is the bane of .22lr. making 1 moa at 100.
Velocity ES is the bane of .22lr. making 1 moa at 100.
Ahhh, the good old “I don’t have to prove anything to you!” response.
OP - you asked for opinions. And you have several here to sift through. I am of the opinion that if accuracy is what you seek in a semi auto, go with a Kidd build. Send it to Lapua to get it lot tested, and buy a case of the best shooting Center X that it likes. That will bring lots of smiles.
Also, you could go have fun if you want to build one. If that process brings you joy, start putting it together, testing, and enjoying it. Sell the used parts you find don’t play well together. Try and assess what needs to be changed (parts, weather, ammo, the shooter’s technique, etc). Buy 1-2 boxes of 50 rounds, and play the ammo lottery to see if you win. Don’t look at what you spent over time, as that isn’t what matters most.
I haven’t looked in a while, but Ruger sold a Match Target 10/22 that looked pretty sweet for a gun that you just take out of the box and shoot. Bull barre and all.
But take caution in believing those who claim MOA or sub MOA 10/22s at 100 yards or more that have spent under $1000. Ask them to prove it.
OP - you asked for opinions. And you have several here to sift through. I am of the opinion that if accuracy is what you seek in a semi auto, go with a Kidd build. Send it to Lapua to get it lot tested, and buy a case of the best shooting Center X that it likes. That will bring lots of smiles.
Also, you could go have fun if you want to build one. If that process brings you joy, start putting it together, testing, and enjoying it. Sell the used parts you find don’t play well together. Try and assess what needs to be changed (parts, weather, ammo, the shooter’s technique, etc). Buy 1-2 boxes of 50 rounds, and play the ammo lottery to see if you win. Don’t look at what you spent over time, as that isn’t what matters most.
I haven’t looked in a while, but Ruger sold a Match Target 10/22 that looked pretty sweet for a gun that you just take out of the box and shoot. Bull barre and all.
But take caution in believing those who claim MOA or sub MOA 10/22s at 100 yards or more that have spent under $1000. Ask them to prove it.
again my perspective my Kidd was around 1/2 the cost of a vudoo, for 80% of the performance. Put this way , a bargain
