Rifle Scopes Is a Viper PST Gen 3 coming???

[Tyrich88]

Looking at the current line up of Vortex Scopes it seems as though they’ve come out with new products that compete directly with the PST gen 2, with a hole right above where the gen 2 currently sits as the razors have bumped up a smidge.

It seems the strike eagle line has taken over that spot a bit and the strike eagle LPVO line definitely has started to overshadow the gen 2 1-6 options.

Is there a new viper PST Gen 3 line coming soon?
I’ve been wondering this for a few months now… I just have no clue.

 

[FuhQ]

Not sure, I’ll tag @Scott_at_Vortex and maybe they’ll have an answer.

And you are correct, there is a big hole in the ~$850-$2,500 range of Vortex optics.

After studying trends of what it appears most folks (at least, on here) desire in a mid-tier scope, I think a PST Gen3 with the Razor Gen3 turrets and LOW ED glass and a 34mm tube would be awesome. Especially if they offered a 1-10x28 LPVO with a 34mm tube & Mil/Mil setup, with 0.1 MIL adjustment, and a true Mil FFP horseshoe reticle (like the NF FC-DMx) and a locking exposed elevation turret (w/ Rev-Stop ZS), and adjustable parallax.

And also I think a 5-25x50 and 6-36x56 or 7-35x56 model would be big sellers. I think folks would pay street price of $1000-$1,500 for one with all those upgraded features. Just my thoughts…

 

[Wirides]

I would also LOVE to see Vortex offer something between the PST and the Razor. I'd personally like to see something like the Strike Eagle / Match Pro ED but with even better glass and turrets, but not as expensive as the Razor line. Wishful thinking I'm sure. Maybe they'll drop bombs at Shot Show in January?

 

[Tyrich88]

I’m REALLY hoping so.

I’d be signing up for a 5-25/6-36 and an LPVO if that was the case.

I’d love exactly what y’all are getting at.
The feature set of the strike eagle is just fantastic. Locking turrets, still really good glass etc.

So a gen 3 to split the difference between that and a razor gen 3 would be LEGIT.

 

[AMG04]

I'd have to pick up a few if they had a 2-12, or 3-18 and kept the weight under 30oz.

I would be thrilled if it was 20oz!

Their LHT line is where I've settled right now.

 

[cake5150]

I'd love a gen 2 PST 3-15 with locking turrets and shake awake illumination. Bonus points if they extend the tree to 15 mil for use with my 300 Blk subs, but I don't want to be too picky! That said, the existing 3-15 is a might big bang for the buck.

 

[Wirides]

@Shamus Terry and @Scott_at_Vortex have been wizards in the LO debacle, maybe they can work miracles on this too?

 

[FuhQ]

@Shamus Terry and @Scott_at_Vortex have been wizards in the LO debacle, maybe they can work miracles on this too?

Vortex tends to actually listen to their customers wants/needs, and study market trends, so this is very possible.

 

[TheMammoth]

I just want a PST or Razor 2-12/2-15 in a compact format with locking turrets. I would have four of these instantly in my safe.

Give us this PLEASE. Or even refresh the PST-2 line with some features like locking turrets and so forth.

 

[beetroot]

I'd love a gen 2 PST 3-15 with locking turrets and shake awake illumination. Bonus points if they extend the tree to 15 mil for use with my 300 Blk subs, but I don't want to be too picky! That said, the existing 3-15 is a might big bang for the buck.

My only complaint with the PST G2is the exposed windage and the EBR-7C reticle could (should) be thicker.

It still stands up pretty well in its price bracket glass wise.

 

[Waco Kid]

I’d be down for a G3 as well. My wish list would be capped windage, xlr-2 or similar reticle (probably in the minority but a .5 mil tree would be fine too), weight similar to the PST2 & LHT, and mags around 3-18, 5-30. Zero stop with no or minimal loss in elevation.

 

[fdkay]

I just want a PST or Razor 2-12/2-15 in a compact format with locking turrets. I would have four of these instantly in my safe.

Give us this PLEASE. Or even refresh the PST-2 line with some features like locking turrets and so forth.

Almost like these:

TORIC UHD 30mm 2.5-15X44 FFP Illuminated MRAD/MRAD Hunting Rifle Scope

Featuring fully multi-coated SCHOTT high-transmission (HT) glass and extra-low dispersion (ED) lens, which make up TRACT’s advanced Ultra High Definition (UHD) optical system. The TORIC 30mm 2.5-15x44 provides the long range hunter with the perfect magnification and objective size and an...

tractoptics.com

 

[Hennig]

I just want a 34/56 setup on the PST3.

I drew a line in the sand where I was making everything 34 only, and I ain’t going back! I did like my PST2 when it came out though.

 

[Wirides]

I just want a 34/56 setup on the PST3.

I drew a line in the sand where I was making everything 34 only, and I ain’t going back! I did like my PST2 when it came out though.

1000% agree. Same boat with the 34mm tube.

 

[Tyrich88]

The strike eagle and razor are now all 34mm, so it would only make sense.

And locking turrets.

 

[FuhQ]

34mm tube has now become standard. It’s the new 30mm tube from 10 years ago.

 

[VandelayIndustries]

Idc about tube diameter. I’ve been begging for a 2.5-15ish FFP illuminated with a usable reticle in low light. I’d rather have it be more forgiving parallax and fov than ultra compact. Locking windage at a minimum too. PST, Razor, AMG doesn’t matter, I wish they’d just make it happen.

 

[fdkay]

Idc about tube diameter. I’ve been begging for a 2.5-15ish FFP illuminated with a usable reticle in low light. I’d rather have it be more forgiving parallax and fov than ultra compact. Locking windage at a minimum too. PST, Razor, AMG doesn’t matter, I wish they’d just make it happen.

See my post above.
Made in Japan.
Ask @koshkin about the Toric 2.5-15 hunting scope.

 

[koshkin]

See my post above.
Made in Japan.
Ask @koshkin about the Toric 2.5-15 hunting scope.

I do not have any insight into the next generation of the PST products. I do really like PST Gen2 3-15x44. It punches way above its price level.

I spent a lot of time this year with Tract 2.5-15x44. I am quite happy with it and it is an easy recommendation. PST does have much wider FOV. Tract has more eyerelief and turrets lock (windage is covered). Pick your poison. I would not hesitate to take either into the field (and I have done exactly that).

ILya

 

[VandelayIndustries]

See my post above.
Made in Japan.
Ask @koshkin about the Toric 2.5-15 hunting scope.

That reticle leaves me a little underwhelmed. Those turrets look like you’d need a step ladder to spin them. But in this gaping hole of a market it’s an option.
Edit: The windage isn’t locking or capped? I see the elevation is, that makes no sense to me.

 

[fdkay]

That reticle leaves me a little underwhelmed. Those turrets look like you’d need a step ladder to spin them. But in this gaping hole of a market it’s an option.

Well, it ensures that it is usable at 2.5, and would be quite serviceable for hunting.
A good SFP option at 2.5-15 is the trijicon Credo.
Let's be realistic, in that power range and the intended purpose, FFP doesn't give you any benefits.

 

[VandelayIndustries]

Well, it ensures that it is usable at 2.5, and would be quite serviceable for hunting.
A good SFP option at 2.5-15 is the trijicon Credo.
Let's be realistic, in that power range and the intended purpose, FFP doesn't give you any benefits.

SFP is a hard no for me. Id still argue FFP is still beneficial in that mag range if the reticle is done right.

 

[FuhQ]

Idc about tube diameter. I’ve been begging for a 2.5-15ish FFP illuminated with a usable reticle in low light. I’d rather have it be more forgiving parallax and fov than ultra compact. Locking windage at a minimum too. PST, Razor, AMG doesn’t matter, I wish they’d just make it happen.

Ahhh, you should be able to make that happen no problem. Aren't you an importer/exporter?

 

[VandelayIndustries]

Ahhh, you should be able to make that happen no problem. Aren't you an importer/exporter?

In the latex industry

 

[FuhQ]

In the latex industry

I hear Costanza is doing wonderful things over there for yall after he left the Yankees.

 

[DBallSmithda3rd]

A few have mentioned how they would buy a 2~15 or so PST in a compact form factor if available. I think people sleep on the PST 2-10x32 that has been out for years. It fits what a lot of people want but it does not get the talk or the traffic as the other larger magnifications. The Gen 2 is 26 ounces with non-locking turrets so that could be a drawback for some.

 

[beetroot]

A few have mentioned how they would buy a 2~15 or so PST in a compact form factor if available. I think people sleep on the PST 2-10x32 that has been out for years. It fits what a lot of people want but it does not get the talk or the traffic as the other larger magnifications. The Gen 2 is 26 ounces with non-locking turrets so that could be a drawback for some.

The reticle kinda sucks too.

If the put something like the EBR9 in it and had capped windage it'd be a decent option even at 26oz.

 

[TheMammoth]

Almost like these:

TORIC UHD 30mm 2.5-15X44 FFP Illuminated MRAD/MRAD Hunting Rifle Scope

Featuring fully multi-coated SCHOTT high-transmission (HT) glass and extra-low dispersion (ED) lens, which make up TRACT’s advanced Ultra High Definition (UHD) optical system. The TORIC 30mm 2.5-15x44 provides the long range hunter with the perfect magnification and objective size and an...

tractoptics.com

Sure. Except skip the FUDD reticle and make the elevation knob not 14" tall so I can mount and use a red dot on the forward scope ring for NV. It looks like its super tall and skinny.

See my post above.
Made in Japan.
Ask @koshkin about the Toric 2.5-15 hunting scope.

Its a little too "Hunting Scope" as the name implies.

They should let Ilya design a reticle similar to the one in the Optika and then I am on board. Maybe. I had a pair of their binos and I really dont see what the fuss is about with them, maybe i had a bad set but they were nothing to write home about.

Well, it ensures that it is usable at 2.5, and would be quite serviceable for hunting.
A good SFP option at 2.5-15 is the trijicon Credo.
Let's be realistic, in that power range and the intended purpose, FFP doesn't give you any benefits.

Credo has no parallax adjustment, otherwise it would be really compelling.

A few have mentioned how they would buy a 2~15 or so PST in a compact form factor if available. I think people sleep on the PST 2-10x32 that has been out for years. It fits what a lot of people want but it does not get the talk or the traffic as the other larger magnifications. The Gen 2 is 26 ounces with non-locking turrets so that could be a drawback for some.

I liked the PST gen 1 of this scope much better than the gen 2. If I am giving up this much weight I want some features. Reticle is also ass.

 

[TheMammoth]

I do not have any insight into the next generation of the PST products.

Well no insights you're allowed to SHARE with us about it anyway. haha

 

[supercorndogs]

Between 800 and 2500 there is the Gen2 Razor, LHT, and AMG.

 

[TheMammoth]

Between 800 and 2500 there is the Gen2 Razor, LHT, and AMG.

The AMG no longer exists. Gen 2 msrp is 3599.99 which means the street price is a fair bit higher than it used to be.

 

[YotaEer]

The LHT excels at what its supposed to do. Stellar glass and form factor for long range hunting. Its just that the controls suck, but you're not turning dials constantly for most game. Really stands on its own for approx. $1000

Same as the Gen 3 6-36x being tough to beat as a pure target/comp scope for around $2200. Its supposed to weigh a ton.

I am desperately hoping for a Gen 3 PST or Gen 2 AMG to be somewhere in the middle glass, weight, feature and price wise as a true "Cross over" scope. However, I would gladly pay $2000+ for a Gen 2 AMG that had the Gen 3 Razor glass, turrets, reticle etc. in a 30mm or slimmer 34mm package.

 

[fdkay]

Credo has no parallax adjustment, otherwise it would be really compelling.

Wrong

 

[TheMammoth]

Wrong

Yeah you're right I was thinking the 2-10. 2.5-15 is a SFP though so no cigar.

I actually had the accupoint 56mm one, idk how similar they really are and that thing was pretty cool for REALLY low light yote greasing.

 

[koshkin]

Well no insights you're allowed to SHARE with us about it anyway. haha

If I actually had any insights, I would be already teasing everyone. This time around, I actually do not know anything.

ILya

 

[TheMammoth]

If I actually had any insights, I would be already teasing everyone. This time around, I actually do not know anything.

ILya

I'm relatively shocked by this lol

 

[TACC]

The LHT excels at what its supposed to do. Stellar glass and form factor for long range hunting. Its just that the controls suck, but you're not turning dials constantly for most game. Really stands on its own for approx. $1000

Same as the Gen 3 6-36x being tough to beat as a pure target/comp scope for around $2200. Its supposed to weigh a ton.

I am desperately hoping for a Gen 3 PST or Gen 2 AMG to be somewhere in the middle glass, weight, feature and price wise as a true "Cross over" scope. However, I would gladly pay $2000+ for a Gen 2 AMG that had the Gen 3 Razor glass, turrets, reticle etc. in a 30mm or slimmer 34mm package.

I agree with this line of thinking as well

 

[koshkin]

Sure. Except skip the FUDD reticle and make the elevation knob not 14" tall so I can mount and use a red dot on the forward scope ring for NV. It looks like its super tall and skinny.



Its a little too "Hunting Scope" as the name implies.

They should let Ilya design a reticle similar to the one in the Optika and then I am on board. Maybe. I had a pair of their binos and I really dont see what the fuss is about with them, maybe i had a bad set but they were nothing to write home about.




Credo has no parallax adjustment, otherwise it would be really compelling.



I liked the PST gen 1 of this scope much better than the gen 2. If I am giving up this much weight I want some features. Reticle is also ass.

The elevation turret is reasonably prominent, but it did not get in the way at all. In terms of packaging, this is a good scope.
Tract does their own reticles and they generally do a perfectly decent job of it. The reticle in this one is intentionally simple. For most hunting it works very nicely. If you shoot further out, dial elevation and hold for wind.

ILya

 

[TheMammoth]

The elevation turret is reasonably prominent, but it did not get in the way at all. In terms of packaging, this is a good scope.
Tract does their own reticles and they generally do a perfectly decent job of it. The reticle in this one is intentionally simple. For most hunting it works very nicely. If you shoot further out, dial elevation and hold for wind.

ILya

I want a higher end replacement for the BTR 2-12, with a similar reticle but a smaller center dot. I currently am using the athlons in C1 mounts with the ring mount for NV. Thats why I mention the height of the turret.

I am patient and will wait until something checks all the boxes. My favorite currently is the tried and true ATACR 4-16x42, if this optical and mechanical quality existed in the mag range and form factor of the BTR I would be in love. Maybe it does and I am just not finding it...

 

[koshkin]

I want a higher end replacement for the BTR 2-12, with a similar reticle but a smaller center dot. I currently am using the athlons in C1 mounts with the ring mount for NV. Thats why I mention the height of the turret.

I am patient and will wait until something checks all the boxes. My favorite currently is the tried and true ATACR 4-16x42, if this optical and mechanical quality existed in the mag range and form factor of the BTR I would be in love. Maybe it does and I am just not finding it...

Maven RS1.2 is a related design from what I can tell and I think it has a smaller elevation turret.

ILya

 

[fdkay]

The LHT excels at what its supposed to do. Stellar glass and form factor for long range hunting. Its just that the controls suck, but you're not turning dials constantly for most game. Really stands on its own for approx. $1000

Same as the Gen 3 6-36x being tough to beat as a pure target/comp scope for around $2200. Its supposed to weigh a ton.

I am desperately hoping for a Gen 3 PST or Gen 2 AMG to be somewhere in the middle glass, weight, feature and price wise as a true "Cross over" scope. However, I would gladly pay $2000+ for a Gen 2 AMG that had the Gen 3 Razor glass, turrets, reticle etc. in a 30mm or slimmer 34mm package.

You mention stellar glass, I have seen numerous claims of mediocre glass, besides the fudd bdc reticle.

 

[YotaEer]

You mention stellar glass, I have seen numerous claims of mediocre glass, besides the fudd bdc reticle.

I am referencing the 4.5-22x FFP version of the LHT. Not the older SFP model.

I took one of my 4.5-22x LHT out last night to compare with a 3.6-18x and 7-35x MK5 I have on hand. The LHT had noticeably better glass than the 3.6-18x and was on par with the 7-35x. Everything else about the Mk5's is superior, but the glass comparison surprised me.

 

[cake5150]

You mention stellar glass, I have seen numerous claims of mediocre glass, besides the fudd bdc reticle.

I sold my LHT 4.5-22 for several reasons, but chief among them was the fact that I could barely differentiate between it and my several gen 2 PST 3-15 scopes when it came to glass quality. That isn't a dig, necessarily, but the EBR-2D PSTs were about half the price at that time while having a much larger FOV. Also, I did not like the turrets or the awful illumination button. Perhaps I was expecting to be blown away by the LHT and just wasn't, I don't know. That said, I'm a night optics snob not a day optics snob so I am definitely not the best to judge the two.

 

[beetroot]

Maven RS1.2 is a related design from what I can tell and I think it has a smaller elevation turret.

ILya

Rokslide is currently going gaga over that new Maven.
Haven't seen any actual reviews yet, other than a few people throwing them on the ground.

Have you seen the scope in person?
Not sure I like the reticle, given that they haven't provided any detail subtension drawings (and have messed up the drawings they did provide) and the random wide lines scattered throughout the reticle I'm not convinced Maven aren't just stabbing in the dark with their model designs.

 

[koshkin]

Rokslide is currently going gaga over that new Maven.
Haven't seen any actual reviews yet, other than a few people throwing them on the ground.

Have you seen the scope in person?
Not sure I like the reticle, given that they haven't provided any detail subtension drawings (and have messed up the drawings they did provide) and the random wide lines scattered throughout the reticle I'm not convinced Maven aren't just stabbing in the dark with their model designs.

I have tested the original Maven RS1 (non-illuminated) and liked it, other than the reticle. I have not had it side by side with the Tract, but I have a very strong suspicion it is the same exact scope with some minor glass differences (Tract insists on different glass) and Tract's elevation turret is locking. Aside from that, the main difference is that Maven is a couple hundred dollars more expensive and, allegedly, three ounces lighter. I have weighed Tract to be exactly as advertised. I have not seen the 1.2 version of the Maven, so I have not weighed.

Given the price, I suspect both offer a lot for the money. Tract is probably a better bang for the buck.

ILya

 

[ToddM]

I don't know, while I really like the PST 2 esp. at some of the sale prices in the $700 range or less we've seen the last couple years, I'd be a bit nervous of what a PST 3 would be price/performance wise. Optically at least in the couple of samples I've had for example the PST 2 is better than the Strike Eagle, and the MSRP's between them are quite different ($900 vs $1400), yet they have had very similar street prices in the last couple years because the discounts on the PST 2 are so much more than the SE. However, the SE has a nicer feature set. Now if you are looking at $600 for a SE and $1100 for a PST 2, the pricing certainly justifies the optical performance gap.

It also seems like vortex has been either increasing prices, or enforcing prices more lately. You don't seen tons of stores offering PS2's in the $700-800 range anymore, most are now all listing the MRAD version at $1099. Vortex must have brought the pricing hammer down because pretty much every store that used to offer them well under $1000, is locked into $1099. $1100 is close to Burris XTR-III $, and considering recent reviews optically put scopes like the Bushnell Match Pro ED better than the PST 2, but at prices that can be found under $600, the market in the say $600-$1000 street price scopes is getting very complex. That said trusting reports is hard, so many sponsored shooters are in forums either playing down competitors optics, or up their own brand. Just about every year a new scope comes out that we hear is performing with scopes 2x it's price, but then a year or two later, the reports become much more lackluster. We also know optic companies are pressuring even forums like SH to not report on scope performance. Lowlight has stated that they no longer report tracking results for scopes because some manufacturers raised a fuss about it.

That said I'd love to see a say 30x top mag option PST 3 with more elevation and built a bit heavier duty, but still keeping the street price close to $1200 or less, but if it pushes anywhere near $1500 its hard not to go other directions.

 

[Tyrich88]

I would agree a 30x top end would be nice
A larger competition model and a solid midrange option as well.

I’d love a 3-18 or even something with a bit more magnification but still decent low end for a hunting rig.

The locking turrets is a must for me too and I don’t see why they would continue to offer the gen 2 when they have features above and below it that are not offered on it.
It would make sense to at least give it more features than the strike eagle or even the same features with better glass/turrets.
If it was even just that I would be all over it.

I have a strike eagle and love it. But I’m sure whatever they come out with would be a great middle ground between SE and Razor gen 3

 

[FuhQ]

I would agree a 30x top end would be nice
A larger competition model and a solid midrange option as well.

I’d love a 3-18 or even something with a bit more magnification but still decent low end for a hunting rig.

The locking turrets is a must for me too and I don’t see why they would continue to offer the gen 2 when they have features above and below it that are not offered on it.
It would make sense to at least give it more features than the strike eagle or even the same features with better glass/turrets.
If it was even just that I would be all over it.

I have a strike eagle and love it. But I’m sure whatever they come out with would be a great middle ground between SE and Razor gen 3

Take a Strike Eagle 5-25x56, and pull out the glass and turrets. Retrofit a set of Razor Gen3 turrets (and locking illumination ring) on it, and Japanese ED glass, lenses, and frames in it, and you'd have a really nice all-around scope that would be a great deal at $1,250-1,500. I'd buy one. Especially if they also offer it in a 5-30x50, 6-36x56 and/or 7-35x56.

 

[beetroot]

Take a Strike Eagle 5-25x56, and pull out the glass and turrets. Retrofit a set of Razor Gen3 turrets (and locking illumination ring) on it, and Japanese ED glass, lenses, and frames in it, and you'd have a really nice all-around scope that would be a great deal at $1,250-1,500. I'd buy one. Especially if they also offer it in a 5-30x50, 6-36x56 and/or 7-35x56.

A Strike Eagle body with Japanese glass and Razor Gen 3 turrets is a Razor Gen 3.

You could make it in China and save some money on labour but then people here will complain it's Chinesium.

 

[R_A_W]

Take a Strike Eagle 5-25x56, and pull out the glass and turrets. Retrofit a set of Razor Gen3 turrets (and locking illumination ring) on it, and Japanese ED glass, lenses, and frames in it, and you'd have a really nice all-around scope that would be a great deal at $1,250-1,500.

yeah and they could even paint it brown

i wonder what they would call it