I am looking at ordering an sn-3 tpal soon from uso. I will most likely want to get some sort of sunshade for it. The question is, should I get ARD? I don't so much care about masking my position and I have heard there is some loss of resolution in the sight picture. Thoughts?
Rifle Scopes Is ARD Useful?
- Thread starter slyfox
- Start date
Re: Is ARD Useful?
I like ARD's. If you don't care about "masking your position" just stick with a sunshade.
I like ARD's. If you don't care about "masking your position" just stick with a sunshade.
Re: Is ARD Useful?
I mean I dont plan to engage many live targets but I was wondering if the ARD helped in full sun better than a traditional sunshade. Basically I didn't know if there is any other benefit other than anti reflection when looking at the objective.
I mean I dont plan to engage many live targets but I was wondering if the ARD helped in full sun better than a traditional sunshade. Basically I didn't know if there is any other benefit other than anti reflection when looking at the objective.
Re: Is ARD Useful?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slyfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking at ordering an sn-3 tpal soon from uso. I will most likely want to get some sort of sunshade for it. The question is, should I get ARD? I don't so much care about masking my position and I have heard there is some loss of resolution in the sight picture. Thoughts? </div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">With some ARDs' there is indeed a perceptable degradation of the image.</span> This image degradation can be caused by a reduction in light transmission or by the (slight) blockage of the image by the ARD insert, or both. If you compare a Tenebraex insert to a USO insert it is obvious which insert will allow better light transmission and block less of the image. The "honeycomb" design of USO's ARD insert is highly-efficient and as picky as I am I never noticed any image degradation with one installed. Because of this I always left the ARDs' installed on my personal SN-3 and Heritage and continue to do so with the ARDs' on my PMIIs', even at night.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slyfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I mean I dont plan to engage many live targets but I was wondering if the ARD helped in full sun better than a traditional sunshade. Basically I didn't know if there is any other benefit other than anti reflection when looking at the objective. </div></div>
My "view" differs from those of <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"sawman556</span></span> and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"fastman"</span></span>. I would get a 2.0" <span style="text-decoration: underline">USO</span> ARD whether you need to mask your position or not. USO ARDs' are very efficient, and USO claims that their 2.0" (2.25" actual OAL, 2.0" <span style="font-style: italic">installed length</span>) ARD works as well as a 4.0" Sunshade. I haven't done the math but in my experience USO ARDs' work very well. I've used 4.0" and 2.0" USO ARDs' on SN-3 3.2-17X44mm ERGOs' and T-PALs', a 4.0" USO ARD on a a 5-25X58mm T-PAL, 2.0" USO ARDs on Premier Heritage 5-25X56mms', and 2.0" USO ARDs' on PMII 5-25X56mm scopes.
I only shoot on a "one-way range", so my USO ARDs' serve two purposes for me: (a) Help keep dirt, rain, and other crap off of the Objective Lens. This minimizes the chance of having to clean the lens, which reduces the necessity of lens cleaning, which reduces the chance of scratching an (expensive) lens, and (b) The ARD actually helps sharpen the target image because off-axis light is prevented from entering the scope (off-axis light reduces image quality and can "wash-out" the image). This effect is noticeable whether I am shooting from a covered firing line or in full sun.
The actual ARD <span style="font-style: italic">Insert</span> and the Housing that USO uses are also quite robust. From what I've seen, the build-quality as well as the performance of the honeycomb design in the USO ARD unit is better than that of the Tenabraex ARDs'. I have USO ARD's on three PMIIs', and I also used one on a [56mm] Premier I owned. USO actually borrowed my Premier to measure the threads for the 56mm Premier ARD prototype several years ago. I haven't used the S & B units so I can't comment on their performance.
USO ARDs' consist of three (3) components:
(1) A threaded, Type III hard anodized aluminum Housing, (which by itself is the USO Sunshade).
(2) a high-efficiency anti-reflective <span style="font-style: italic">"honeycomb"</span> Insert that is expoxied into the aluminum Housing.
(3) an aluminum "Stop Ring" that limits the depth of the honeycomb Insert within the Housing.
The <span style="font-style: italic">actual</span>, OALs' of the Housings are .25" longer than the <span style="font-style: italic">installed length</span> (male .25" threads into scope). Therefore, the OAL of a Sunshade (or an ARD) of a 2" USO Sunshade or ARD is actually 2.25".
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">USO 2" ARD for 56mm Schmidt Bender:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Tac Ops X-Ray 51 w/metalworkwork in Tac Ops OD Green-T & Black-T w/PMII 5-25X 56mm & USO 2" S & B 56mm ARD:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">USO 2" ARD for 56mm Premier:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Full-custom SS MOA 10/22 w/Premier 5-25X 56mm & USO 2" Premier 56mm ARD:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">USO 2" ARD for 44mm USO:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">USO 4" ARD for 44mm USO:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">FNH A3 G w/SN-3 3.2-17X 44mm ERGO & USO 4" ARD:</span></span>
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slyfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking at ordering an sn-3 tpal soon from uso. I will most likely want to get some sort of sunshade for it. The question is, should I get ARD? I don't so much care about masking my position and I have heard there is some loss of resolution in the sight picture. Thoughts? </div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">With some ARDs' there is indeed a perceptable degradation of the image.</span> This image degradation can be caused by a reduction in light transmission or by the (slight) blockage of the image by the ARD insert, or both. If you compare a Tenebraex insert to a USO insert it is obvious which insert will allow better light transmission and block less of the image. The "honeycomb" design of USO's ARD insert is highly-efficient and as picky as I am I never noticed any image degradation with one installed. Because of this I always left the ARDs' installed on my personal SN-3 and Heritage and continue to do so with the ARDs' on my PMIIs', even at night.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slyfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I mean I dont plan to engage many live targets but I was wondering if the ARD helped in full sun better than a traditional sunshade. Basically I didn't know if there is any other benefit other than anti reflection when looking at the objective. </div></div>
My "view" differs from those of <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"sawman556</span></span> and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"fastman"</span></span>. I would get a 2.0" <span style="text-decoration: underline">USO</span> ARD whether you need to mask your position or not. USO ARDs' are very efficient, and USO claims that their 2.0" (2.25" actual OAL, 2.0" <span style="font-style: italic">installed length</span>) ARD works as well as a 4.0" Sunshade. I haven't done the math but in my experience USO ARDs' work very well. I've used 4.0" and 2.0" USO ARDs' on SN-3 3.2-17X44mm ERGOs' and T-PALs', a 4.0" USO ARD on a a 5-25X58mm T-PAL, 2.0" USO ARDs on Premier Heritage 5-25X56mms', and 2.0" USO ARDs' on PMII 5-25X56mm scopes.
I only shoot on a "one-way range", so my USO ARDs' serve two purposes for me: (a) Help keep dirt, rain, and other crap off of the Objective Lens. This minimizes the chance of having to clean the lens, which reduces the necessity of lens cleaning, which reduces the chance of scratching an (expensive) lens, and (b) The ARD actually helps sharpen the target image because off-axis light is prevented from entering the scope (off-axis light reduces image quality and can "wash-out" the image). This effect is noticeable whether I am shooting from a covered firing line or in full sun.
The actual ARD <span style="font-style: italic">Insert</span> and the Housing that USO uses are also quite robust. From what I've seen, the build-quality as well as the performance of the honeycomb design in the USO ARD unit is better than that of the Tenabraex ARDs'. I have USO ARD's on three PMIIs', and I also used one on a [56mm] Premier I owned. USO actually borrowed my Premier to measure the threads for the 56mm Premier ARD prototype several years ago. I haven't used the S & B units so I can't comment on their performance.
USO ARDs' consist of three (3) components:
(1) A threaded, Type III hard anodized aluminum Housing, (which by itself is the USO Sunshade).
(2) a high-efficiency anti-reflective <span style="font-style: italic">"honeycomb"</span> Insert that is expoxied into the aluminum Housing.
(3) an aluminum "Stop Ring" that limits the depth of the honeycomb Insert within the Housing.
The <span style="font-style: italic">actual</span>, OALs' of the Housings are .25" longer than the <span style="font-style: italic">installed length</span> (male .25" threads into scope). Therefore, the OAL of a Sunshade (or an ARD) of a 2" USO Sunshade or ARD is actually 2.25".
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">USO 2" ARD for 56mm Schmidt Bender:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Tac Ops X-Ray 51 w/metalworkwork in Tac Ops OD Green-T & Black-T w/PMII 5-25X 56mm & USO 2" S & B 56mm ARD:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">USO 2" ARD for 56mm Premier:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Full-custom SS MOA 10/22 w/Premier 5-25X 56mm & USO 2" Premier 56mm ARD:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">USO 2" ARD for 44mm USO:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">USO 4" ARD for 44mm USO:</span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">FNH A3 G w/SN-3 3.2-17X 44mm ERGO & USO 4" ARD:</span></span>
Keith
Re: Is ARD Useful?
Keith, you put a Premier on a 10/22???
slyfox: different ARD's will affect resolution differently. I really can't tell a difference on my USO 5-25 with or without the ARD, but the one on my SWFA 3-9 definitely degrades the view. Where the USO has a fairly large honeycomb the SWFA is tight and dense. I rarely use it anymore for that reason.
For your purposes, it sounds like you'll do just fine with only a sunshade.
Keith, you put a Premier on a 10/22???
slyfox: different ARD's will affect resolution differently. I really can't tell a difference on my USO 5-25 with or without the ARD, but the one on my SWFA 3-9 definitely degrades the view. Where the USO has a fairly large honeycomb the SWFA is tight and dense. I rarely use it anymore for that reason.
For your purposes, it sounds like you'll do just fine with only a sunshade.
Re: Is ARD Useful?
I made a flow chart to answer this.
I made a flow chart to answer this.
Re: Is ARD Useful?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made a flow chart to answer this.
</div></div>
Best post ever!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made a flow chart to answer this.
</div></div>
Best post ever!!!
Re: Is ARD Useful?
Classic
Classic
Re: Is ARD Useful?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yasherka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keith, you put a Premier on a 10/22???</div></div>
I mounted said Premier on the X-Ray to verify the accuracy of the adjustments and play with it at ditance, then re-mounted the PMII on the X-Ray. The Premier found it's way onto the 10/22 for a short time prior to me selling the Premier to help fund the purchase of my second PMII 5-25X[56] Gen 2 XR. Great for watching headshot impacts at 300 yards with that 10/22. That 10/22 has also worn a PMII 5-25X[56] Gen 2 XR CCW at times.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yasherka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">slyfox: different ARD's will affect resolution differently. I really can't tell a difference on my USO 5-25 with or without the ARD, but the one on my SWFA 3-9 definitely degrades the view. Where the USO has a fairly large honeycomb the SWFA is tight and dense. I rarely use it anymore for that reason.</div></div>
Yep. Just like I said. An efficient ARD does not <span style="font-style: italic">perceptably</span> degrade the image.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yasherka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For your purposes, it sounds like you'll do just fine with only a sunshade. </div></div>
Sure, a Sunshade should work fine. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">slyfox</span></span> may not need anti-reflection, but the bit of lens protection that the ARD provides is an added benefit in the same size package. While not as protective as a B & W or high end Hoya UV Filter, it's less expensive (B & W and the high end Hoya UV Filters use Schott glass and run around $100.00).
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yasherka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keith, you put a Premier on a 10/22???</div></div>
I mounted said Premier on the X-Ray to verify the accuracy of the adjustments and play with it at ditance, then re-mounted the PMII on the X-Ray. The Premier found it's way onto the 10/22 for a short time prior to me selling the Premier to help fund the purchase of my second PMII 5-25X[56] Gen 2 XR. Great for watching headshot impacts at 300 yards with that 10/22. That 10/22 has also worn a PMII 5-25X[56] Gen 2 XR CCW at times.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yasherka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">slyfox: different ARD's will affect resolution differently. I really can't tell a difference on my USO 5-25 with or without the ARD, but the one on my SWFA 3-9 definitely degrades the view. Where the USO has a fairly large honeycomb the SWFA is tight and dense. I rarely use it anymore for that reason.</div></div>
Yep. Just like I said. An efficient ARD does not <span style="font-style: italic">perceptably</span> degrade the image.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yasherka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For your purposes, it sounds like you'll do just fine with only a sunshade. </div></div>
Sure, a Sunshade should work fine. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">slyfox</span></span> may not need anti-reflection, but the bit of lens protection that the ARD provides is an added benefit in the same size package. While not as protective as a B & W or high end Hoya UV Filter, it's less expensive (B & W and the high end Hoya UV Filters use Schott glass and run around $100.00).
Keith
Re: Is ARD Useful?
from what im told the ard is designed to help make the target a little brighter in lower light by directing the light from the target rather than scattered light from everywhere being gathered. this is the way it was explained to me
from what im told the ard is designed to help make the target a little brighter in lower light by directing the light from the target rather than scattered light from everywhere being gathered. this is the way it was explained to me
Re: Is ARD Useful?
Simply brilliant!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made a flow chart to answer this.
</div></div>
Simply brilliant!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made a flow chart to answer this.
</div></div>
Re: Is ARD Useful?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made a flow chart to answer this.
</div></div>
WIN!..LMAO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made a flow chart to answer this.
</div></div>
WIN!..LMAO
Re: Is ARD Useful?
I often used to shoot toward the direction of the sunset, and the ARD helped quite a bit. I tried four setups: sunshade only, ARD only, sunshade + ARD, and nothing. Using nothing made the scope unusable. The long sunshade helped. The ARD was even better, despite being shorter than the sunshade. The sunshade + ARD combo helped the most.
The flowchart is funny, but seriously if you're going to shoot anywhere even remotely toward the direction of the sun, the ARD helps a lot.
I often used to shoot toward the direction of the sunset, and the ARD helped quite a bit. I tried four setups: sunshade only, ARD only, sunshade + ARD, and nothing. Using nothing made the scope unusable. The long sunshade helped. The ARD was even better, despite being shorter than the sunshade. The sunshade + ARD combo helped the most.
The flowchart is funny, but seriously if you're going to shoot anywhere even remotely toward the direction of the sun, the ARD helps a lot.
Re: Is ARD Useful?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made a flow chart to answer this.
</div></div>
very eloquant and so true.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made a flow chart to answer this.
</div></div>
very eloquant and so true.
Re: Is ARD Useful?
Thank you <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Aries64</span></span> for the awesome info. Thank you for everyone elses input. Considering that I want to look as absolutely badass as I can I will be getting the ARD from USO.
Thank you <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Aries64</span></span> for the awesome info. Thank you for everyone elses input. Considering that I want to look as absolutely badass as I can I will be getting the ARD from USO.
Re: Is ARD Useful?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">very eloqu<span style="color: #FF0000">e</span>nt and so true. </div></div>
Fixed it....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">very eloqu<span style="color: #FF0000">e</span>nt and so true. </div></div>
Fixed it....
Re: Is ARD Useful?
Yeah the flow chart is just for laughs. Maybe I will make a which scope to buy flow chart that can be made a sticky.
Yeah the flow chart is just for laughs. Maybe I will make a which scope to buy flow chart that can be made a sticky.
Re: Is ARD Useful?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like using an ARD purely for the fact that I can leave my scope cap off and it keeps branches and fingers from scratching up the objective lens.</div></div>
+1
I also find it handy when I'm shooting with the sun in my face. It helps keep some of the light from entering and "over exposing" my sight picture.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like using an ARD purely for the fact that I can leave my scope cap off and it keeps branches and fingers from scratching up the objective lens.</div></div>
+1
I also find it handy when I'm shooting with the sun in my face. It helps keep some of the light from entering and "over exposing" my sight picture.
Re: Is ARD Useful?
What are you picking boogers off the obj? Keep your fingers out of there. As far as ARDs - I don't like them. But I run them. You pay thousands of dollars for great glass and put that shit in front of it. See flow chart. Best thing I've seen for a great while. Should be a "sticky"!!
What are you picking boogers off the obj? Keep your fingers out of there. As far as ARDs - I don't like them. But I run them. You pay thousands of dollars for great glass and put that shit in front of it. See flow chart. Best thing I've seen for a great while. Should be a "sticky"!!
Re: Is ARD Useful?
Classic - but those 'cartoon' youtube clips covering what makes me a badass sniper are the best. (can't remember who the originator was, but they should run for president - at least I would laugh again)
Classic - but those 'cartoon' youtube clips covering what makes me a badass sniper are the best. (can't remember who the originator was, but they should run for president - at least I would laugh again)
Re: Is ARD Useful?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bedlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I often used to shoot toward the direction of the sunset, and the ARD helped quite a bit. I tried four setups: sunshade only, ARD only, sunshade + ARD, and nothing. Using nothing made the scope unusable. The long sunshade helped. The ARD was even better, despite being shorter than the sunshade. The sunshade + ARD combo helped the most.
The flowchart is funny, but seriously if you're going to shoot anywhere even remotely toward the direction of the sun, the ARD helps a lot. </div></div>
I have this exact same issue and experience. I would never had bought an ARD, but one came with each of the used USO scopes I purchased. I also had one come with a used Aimpoint. The aimpoint is a tenebraex style and makes the image look dark and shitty. I took it off and threw it into my parts bin.
The USO honeycomb works great. Better than a sunshade. I'm not sure if it's the insane cloud cover of WA or the fact that people in WA don't get out in bright sunlight, but when the sun gets at a low angle I get really bad stray light which will make the image through my scope washed out. It's made worse by foliage that's close to my shooting position. (Relative to the target position.)
Normally a standard sunshade will mitigate this effect. Personally I wouldn't go out of my way to buy USO ARD for my NXS scopes, but if I purchase another USO, I would pay a little extra for the ARD vs a plain sunshade. Mainly because it's shorter and works better then a plain sunshade.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bedlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I often used to shoot toward the direction of the sunset, and the ARD helped quite a bit. I tried four setups: sunshade only, ARD only, sunshade + ARD, and nothing. Using nothing made the scope unusable. The long sunshade helped. The ARD was even better, despite being shorter than the sunshade. The sunshade + ARD combo helped the most.
The flowchart is funny, but seriously if you're going to shoot anywhere even remotely toward the direction of the sun, the ARD helps a lot. </div></div>
I have this exact same issue and experience. I would never had bought an ARD, but one came with each of the used USO scopes I purchased. I also had one come with a used Aimpoint. The aimpoint is a tenebraex style and makes the image look dark and shitty. I took it off and threw it into my parts bin.
The USO honeycomb works great. Better than a sunshade. I'm not sure if it's the insane cloud cover of WA or the fact that people in WA don't get out in bright sunlight, but when the sun gets at a low angle I get really bad stray light which will make the image through my scope washed out. It's made worse by foliage that's close to my shooting position. (Relative to the target position.)
Normally a standard sunshade will mitigate this effect. Personally I wouldn't go out of my way to buy USO ARD for my NXS scopes, but if I purchase another USO, I would pay a little extra for the ARD vs a plain sunshade. Mainly because it's shorter and works better then a plain sunshade.
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