I have had a problem with stiff bolt lift in my 338 and I think that I have fiqured out that I am way over pressure. A gunsmith ran my numbers thru quickload and he assured me that I was way overpressure. So I borrowed 2 cases of new brass from a friend and lowered my charge down from 92 grains of Retumbo to 88 and sure enough the bolt was as smooth as silk. I then took 2 cases that have been fired once with the 92 grain load and full length sized them to the same demensions as the new brass and fired them with the same 88 grain load and the bolt was stiff like it always has been. So did I ruin all of my new brass ?
Is my brass toast ????
- Thread starter CSiebert
- Start date
Re: Is my brass toast ????
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
I see a 300 grain SMK under 94 grains of Retumbo listed in the linked Hodgdon load guide. Unless you are loading something bigger than a 300 grain pill, I think you are all right. Your full length sizing die is not bringing your cases back to spec.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
I see a 300 grain SMK under 94 grains of Retumbo listed in the linked Hodgdon load guide. Unless you are loading something bigger than a 300 grain pill, I think you are all right. Your full length sizing die is not bringing your cases back to spec.
Re: Is my brass toast ????
mmmm maybe not.
If it were me I would anneal the necks and try FL sizing them again.
Also check the body dimensions as well.
Sacrifice one of your cases and cut it in half and have a look at the internals... if the brass is thinning out in any areas I would ditch the whole lot.
mmmm maybe not.
If it were me I would anneal the necks and try FL sizing them again.
Also check the body dimensions as well.
Sacrifice one of your cases and cut it in half and have a look at the internals... if the brass is thinning out in any areas I would ditch the whole lot.
Re: Is my brass toast ????
it looks like your brass has a memory and will not size down to fit the chamber again without sticking on extraction.
Just a Question where did you get your starting data to load at 92gr? The ADI starting load is 85gr but the max is 94 you were not at max but there are a lot of things that make a load max in one firle and not the other. I think you have learnt a lesson here start low and work up slowly and dis regard QuickLoad because the published data from the powder manufacturer says you are not dangerously overpressure but that is with a different batch of powder, case, barrel and action so just whenever you change batches back the load down and work it up slowly so you dont make an expensive lesson again.
it looks like your brass has a memory and will not size down to fit the chamber again without sticking on extraction.
Just a Question where did you get your starting data to load at 92gr? The ADI starting load is 85gr but the max is 94 you were not at max but there are a lot of things that make a load max in one firle and not the other. I think you have learnt a lesson here start low and work up slowly and dis regard QuickLoad because the published data from the powder manufacturer says you are not dangerously overpressure but that is with a different batch of powder, case, barrel and action so just whenever you change batches back the load down and work it up slowly so you dont make an expensive lesson again.
Re: Is my brass toast ????
Also what projectile? the 300gr matchKings have less baring surface than the Berger or LApua Scenar so if you use either of them you need to reduce the loads aswell.
Also what projectile? the 300gr matchKings have less baring surface than the Berger or LApua Scenar so if you use either of them you need to reduce the loads aswell.
Re: Is my brass toast ????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mmmm maybe not.
If it were me I would anneal the necks and try FL sizing them again.
Also check the body dimensions as well.
Sacrifice one of your cases and cut it in half and have a look at the internals... if the brass is thinning out in any areas I would ditch the whole lot. </div></div>
Hi this problem occours when the base is swollen and it gets a memory i have seen it in nearly every calibre from 223 up and very common in 308 aswell when people run loads realy hard you can small base the cases and then they fit into the chamber easily but once you fire them they swell out and the base sticks you can not fix it anneling only helps theneck area if the case has streached oversize then they are toast.
I also forgot to ask what rifle this is being shot in? because the tennon strength on a rifle will also allow the rear of the chamber to streach and the cases will swell with loads that are normal in a heavier action. Like using a MLR and then a LAwton 8500 with a larget tennnon it is easier to swell the smaller tennon on the MLR and that is why we wont build 338 Lapuas on Rem actions the thread tennon can swell a lot earlier than on larger actions designed for the 338 lapua from the ground up and only do 338 Edge conversions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mmmm maybe not.
If it were me I would anneal the necks and try FL sizing them again.
Also check the body dimensions as well.
Sacrifice one of your cases and cut it in half and have a look at the internals... if the brass is thinning out in any areas I would ditch the whole lot. </div></div>
Hi this problem occours when the base is swollen and it gets a memory i have seen it in nearly every calibre from 223 up and very common in 308 aswell when people run loads realy hard you can small base the cases and then they fit into the chamber easily but once you fire them they swell out and the base sticks you can not fix it anneling only helps theneck area if the case has streached oversize then they are toast.
I also forgot to ask what rifle this is being shot in? because the tennon strength on a rifle will also allow the rear of the chamber to streach and the cases will swell with loads that are normal in a heavier action. Like using a MLR and then a LAwton 8500 with a larget tennnon it is easier to swell the smaller tennon on the MLR and that is why we wont build 338 Lapuas on Rem actions the thread tennon can swell a lot earlier than on larger actions designed for the 338 lapua from the ground up and only do 338 Edge conversions.
Re: Is my brass toast ????
I used the load from the original owner of the rifle but I think that being in 2 completly different climates and elevations might have caused the problem and also the fact that I just kinda ran with previous owners load because it shoots lights out. I knew the bolt was stiff but I was using the brass that came along with the rifle and figured it needed anealing. I bought 100 pieces of new brass and didnt have a problem with them until I sized and shot them for the second time. I am getting 2875 fps with a 300 grain smk 27.5 barrel that should have told me I was overpressure.
What I don't understand is I checked demensions on the 2 new cases shot with the reduced load and my brass that has been fired with a hot load and they seem to be the exact size headspace, base diameter and length but my old cases wont chamber back in the rifle without some resistance. Doesn't really make any sense but it is what it is. One very expensive lesson learned.
Oh I forgot it is a custom build with a BAT ACTION
I used the load from the original owner of the rifle but I think that being in 2 completly different climates and elevations might have caused the problem and also the fact that I just kinda ran with previous owners load because it shoots lights out. I knew the bolt was stiff but I was using the brass that came along with the rifle and figured it needed anealing. I bought 100 pieces of new brass and didnt have a problem with them until I sized and shot them for the second time. I am getting 2875 fps with a 300 grain smk 27.5 barrel that should have told me I was overpressure.
What I don't understand is I checked demensions on the 2 new cases shot with the reduced load and my brass that has been fired with a hot load and they seem to be the exact size headspace, base diameter and length but my old cases wont chamber back in the rifle without some resistance. Doesn't really make any sense but it is what it is. One very expensive lesson learned.
Oh I forgot it is a custom build with a BAT ACTION
Re: Is my brass toast ????
that is not good news mate you might also have a different batch of powder that is slightly faster that is why we have to re check loads before just going on with a new batch of cases or powder. just out of curiosity weight a new case compared to the older cases because sometimes the case batches can have less capacity because they are heavier.
To get the exact measurements you have to use a micrometer as it can me tenths of a thou that make a difference. if the new cases are also the same measurements of the fired cases it might be worth having the chamber linished to relieve it slightly if it is a very tight match chamber. if you can find a factory round see if that has the can you find out the tennon diameter on your BAt as they are very well made you might also just have been chambered with a very tight reamer and if that is the case your cases will be fine just have a standard reamer run in to give the slight clearence it requires you might not have to ditch the cases and as you have mentioned the cases are the same size as new cases i think getting the chamber specs might be on order.
that is not good news mate you might also have a different batch of powder that is slightly faster that is why we have to re check loads before just going on with a new batch of cases or powder. just out of curiosity weight a new case compared to the older cases because sometimes the case batches can have less capacity because they are heavier.
To get the exact measurements you have to use a micrometer as it can me tenths of a thou that make a difference. if the new cases are also the same measurements of the fired cases it might be worth having the chamber linished to relieve it slightly if it is a very tight match chamber. if you can find a factory round see if that has the can you find out the tennon diameter on your BAt as they are very well made you might also just have been chambered with a very tight reamer and if that is the case your cases will be fine just have a standard reamer run in to give the slight clearence it requires you might not have to ditch the cases and as you have mentioned the cases are the same size as new cases i think getting the chamber specs might be on order.
Re: Is my brass toast ????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mmmm maybe not.
If it were me I would anneal the necks and try FL sizing them again.
Also check the body dimensions as well.
Sacrifice one of your cases and cut it in half and have a look at the internals... if the brass is thinning out in any areas I would ditch the whole lot. </div></div>
Hi this problem occours when the base is swollen and it gets a memory i have seen it in nearly every calibre from 223 up and very common in 308 aswell when people run loads realy hard you can small base the cases and then they fit into the chamber easily but once you fire them they swell out and the base sticks you can not fix it anneling only helps theneck area if the case has streached oversize then they are toast.
I also forgot to ask what rifle this is being shot in? because the tennon strength on a rifle will also allow the rear of the chamber to streach and the cases will swell with loads that are normal in a heavier action. Like using a MLR and then a LAwton 8500 with a larget tennnon it is easier to swell the smaller tennon on the MLR and that is why we wont build 338 Lapuas on Rem actions the thread tennon can swell a lot earlier than on larger actions designed for the 338 lapua from the ground up and only do 338 Edge conversions.
</div></div>
Great post Bill, I did not know this info on the difference between Lawton and MLR tennon.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mmmm maybe not.
If it were me I would anneal the necks and try FL sizing them again.
Also check the body dimensions as well.
Sacrifice one of your cases and cut it in half and have a look at the internals... if the brass is thinning out in any areas I would ditch the whole lot. </div></div>
Hi this problem occours when the base is swollen and it gets a memory i have seen it in nearly every calibre from 223 up and very common in 308 aswell when people run loads realy hard you can small base the cases and then they fit into the chamber easily but once you fire them they swell out and the base sticks you can not fix it anneling only helps theneck area if the case has streached oversize then they are toast.
I also forgot to ask what rifle this is being shot in? because the tennon strength on a rifle will also allow the rear of the chamber to streach and the cases will swell with loads that are normal in a heavier action. Like using a MLR and then a LAwton 8500 with a larget tennnon it is easier to swell the smaller tennon on the MLR and that is why we wont build 338 Lapuas on Rem actions the thread tennon can swell a lot earlier than on larger actions designed for the 338 lapua from the ground up and only do 338 Edge conversions.
</div></div>
Great post Bill, I did not know this info on the difference between Lawton and MLR tennon.
Re: Is my brass toast ????
Yeh Bill knows his stuff and is my smith of choice for future builds. He is very experienced and knows what hes talking about.
Thanks for the heads up regarding the remington actions. I actually had the thought running through my mind the other day... "should i buy a sendero and get bill to rechamber it later". Just being a stinge and tight on cash.
Yeh Bill knows his stuff and is my smith of choice for future builds. He is very experienced and knows what hes talking about.
Thanks for the heads up regarding the remington actions. I actually had the thought running through my mind the other day... "should i buy a sendero and get bill to rechamber it later". Just being a stinge and tight on cash.
Re: Is my brass toast ????
Get a body sizing die, I had the same issue with hot loads and stiff bolt. Different caliber, but a body die took care of the issue directly. I bet its the base of the cartridge, so show for sure where the case is tight, magic marker the whole piece of brass, chamber it, and where the marker rubbed off is where it is not getting sized enough, so it is either not bumping the shoulder enough, or sizing the body enough, either way, a body die will fix it.
Get a body sizing die, I had the same issue with hot loads and stiff bolt. Different caliber, but a body die took care of the issue directly. I bet its the base of the cartridge, so show for sure where the case is tight, magic marker the whole piece of brass, chamber it, and where the marker rubbed off is where it is not getting sized enough, so it is either not bumping the shoulder enough, or sizing the body enough, either way, a body die will fix it.
Re: Is my brass toast ????
Have you tried bumping the shoulder back a little more? also Im assuming youve measured your cases and they dont need trimmed back?
Have you tried bumping the shoulder back a little more? also Im assuming youve measured your cases and they dont need trimmed back?
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