Rifle Scopes Is my scope too high?

346ci

346ci

FJB
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    • Mar 26, 2010
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    #1
    Just got a great deal on a Seekins 20moa base and med/high rings off the classifieds here. Installed them on my 700 knowing the rings might be a little too high. Now that they are installed, I'm thinking meds would be better? Isn't that the objective, to get the scope as close as possible to the bbl?
    thanks guys!!!

    http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss187/2000ssm6/Remy700.jpg[/img]]photobucket
     
    #3
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kirk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could run with "low" rings, I would get behind the rifle and see how it feels with the current scope height.

    Kirk R </div></div>

    Feels fine, I just like the look of a smaller gap I guess.
    grin.gif
    I need to make some measurements and see how much space I will have with lows vs. the meds. thanks for the help!
     
    #4
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">? Isn't that the objective, to get the scope as close as possible to the bbl?
    </div></div>

    The objective is to give the shooter the best NPA with a good repeatable cheekweld. If you get behind the rifle in shooting position comfortably with your eyes closed, open them and you are looking through your scope you're good and can save looking fabulous in pictures for pornstars.
    If you do so and are looking at the bnottom of the eyepiece, then get lower rings (or a stock pack to raise your cheekweld).
     
    #6
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">? Isn't that the objective, to get the scope as close as possible to the bbl?
    </div></div>

    The objective is to give the shooter the best NPA with a good repeatable cheekweld. If you get behind the rifle in shooting position comfortably with your eyes closed, open them and you are looking through your scope you're good and can save looking fabulous in pictures for pornstars.
    If you do so and are looking at the bnottom of the eyepiece, then get lower rings (or a stock pack to raise your cheekweld). </div></div>

    Very accurate and well said!


    Scott
     
    #9
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    I went from standing to prone a few times. Seems to be fine but I like the look of it being lower. I got plenty of room with my cheek weld also.
     
    #13
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i like the look of titties, but cant get em on my scope, it's not about looks, it's about repeatability and comfort, which equals repeatability </div></div>

    LOL
    laugh.gif
     
    #14
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    346ci, I agree with most guys, I think it looks just fine. BUT, it's your rifle, and if you think it's sitting too tall, hell, get the lower rings and give them a try. I'm guessing you'll come back to the current one. well, there's only one way to find out. eh?

    now, about repeatability and comfort and performance and "I don't care what my shit looks like" school of thought.... it is possible to have a great working rifle that also looks great.
     
    #15
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i like the look of titties, but cant get em on my scope, it's not about looks, it's about repeatability and comfort, which equals repeatability </div></div>

    the poet of our generation...
     
    #17
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ho Chung</div><div class="ubbcode-body">346ci, I agree with most guys, I think it looks just fine. BUT, it's your rifle, and if you think it's sitting too tall, hell, get the lower rings and give them a try. I'm guessing you'll come back to the current one. well, there's only one way to find out. eh?

    now, about repeatability and comfort and performance and "I don't care what my shit looks like" school of thought.... it is possible to have a great working rifle that also looks great.

    </div></div>

    Yeah, even with the current rings, the rifle is much more capable of shooting well than I am. I'm going to shoot her this weekend hopefully to give me some more ideas. I got to get a few more posts before relisting them anyway.
     
    #18
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: i_rep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it isn't exactly what you needed, then I guess it wasn't such a "Great Deal" after all!



    Only you can decide. </div></div>

    It was a great deal and being the best rings you can get, I won't have any problems passing on a great deal to another member. I got a stash of AR parts that I bought for the same reason. Not really stuff I need until I start on a new build, then I think "dam good thing you bought that".
    grin.gif
     
    #19
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I got plenty of room with my cheek weld also. </div></div>

    Not trying to be a dick head, but do you know what proper cheek weld is? Your statement leads me to believe you think it is "humanly" adjustable. If your behind the rifle and your eye is lower then your scope, at which point you find yourself relaxing your lower jaw to raise your eye to scope level, to me that is not your most "solid" NPA.
    IDK, you could be a world class shooter that could kick the crap out of everyone here. I am just asking!
     
    #20
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: i_rep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it isn't exactly what you needed, then I guess it wasn't such a "Great Deal" after all!



    Only you can decide. </div></div>

    It was a great deal and being the best rings you can get, I won't have any problems passing on a great deal to another member. I got a stash of AR parts that I bought for the same reason. Not really stuff I need until I start on a new build, then I think "dam good thing you bought that".
    grin.gif
    </div></div>

    true dat yo, I picked up a buttplug on half off sale a couple years ago cause it was a good deal, still havent used it though.........or have I?
     
    #21
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i like the look of titties, but cant get em on my scope, </div></div>

    Oh yes you can. A little Duracoat and an airbrush and you could be sportin' a pair.
    laugh.gif
     
    #22
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went from standing to prone a few times. Seems to be fine but I like the look of it being lower. <span style="color: #CC0000">I got plenty of room with my cheek weld also. </span></div></div>

    Then you haven't got a good cheekweld....
     
    #24
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    Buy some Butler Creeks, that'll suck up some of the extra room between the scope and barrel, you'll like the looks better.

    Then, buy a stock pack for $30, adjust the cheekweld to right where you need it and rock on.
     
    #25
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    I think one advantage of having the scope closer to bore would be to limit the the influence canting the rifle would have on bullet trajectory. The higher the scope, the more sensitive the trajectory is to canting and having your shot thrown off. This can be avoided by using a bubble level. But I don't really know how much change in height would make a small amount of cant significant. Anyone know?
     
    #26
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BFD711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think one advantage of having the scope closer to bore would be to limit the the influence canting the rifle would have on bullet trajectory.</div></div>

    How?...

    I doubt that scope height has any effect at all, as scope height is not considered in the "formula". Horizontal error formula would be (drop) * sine(cant angle)....

    Bill
     
    #28
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BFD711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think one advantage of having the scope closer to bore would be to limit the the influence canting the rifle would have on bullet trajectory.</div></div>

    How?...

    I doubt that scope height has any effect at all, as scope height is not considered in the "formula". Horizontal error formula would be (drop) * sine(cant angle).

    Bill </div></div>

    I think Bill is thinking of cant as in "canted base" where the cant is parallel with the bore, not rotational cant perpendicular to the bore..........
     
    #29
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AQC440</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I got plenty of room with my cheek weld also. </div></div>

    Not trying to be a dick head, but do you know what proper cheek weld is? Your statement leads me to believe you think it is "humanly" adjustable. If your behind the rifle and your eye is lower then your scope, at which point you find yourself relaxing your lower jaw to raise your eye to scope level, to me that is not your most "solid" NPA.
    IDK, you could be a world class shooter that could kick the crap out of everyone here. I am just asking! </div></div>

    Not a pro but can shoot. Some friends(retired Army sniper) have been helping me with what I can improve before even shooting. I got a long ways to go but will get there with time.
     
    #30
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">throw up those mediums for sale for $95 and then turn around and buy some lows. </div></div>

    I need to get my post count up, then they will go in the classifieds.
    grin.gif
     
    #32
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buy some Butler Creeks, that'll suck up some of the extra room between the scope and barrel, you'll like the looks better.

    Then, buy a stock pack for $30, adjust the cheekweld to right where you need it and rock on. </div></div>

    The sun shade has a BC but since it is a Burris XTR, I can't mount one on the eye piece unless I want to return the focus back everytime. I'm anal about keeping scope covers on so that is not a big deal.

    I have a stock pack but want to get these rings sorted out before playing with it.
    grin.gif
     
    #33
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's fine, if you need to pad the cheek piece do so, save your coin for a good deal to pop up. </div></div>

    That is where most of my coin goes, good deals. Hard to pass up stuff sometimes.
     
    #34
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    I would suggest closing your eyes and getting a comfortable grip and cheekweld position, then open your eyes and see if you are centered and looking straight through you scope, if not then make adjustments or get different rings as needed. Do this in prone, sitted, and standing...check and see.

    After writing my post, looks like sobrbiker883 said the same thing already, so I 2nd that.
     
    #37
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BFD711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think one advantage of having the scope closer to bore would be to limit the the influence canting the rifle would have on bullet trajectory.</div></div>

    How?...

    I doubt that scope height has any effect at all, as scope height is not considered in the "formula". Horizontal error formula would be (drop) * sine(cant angle)....

    Bill </div></div>

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BFD711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.microlevel.biz/cant_errors.html

    Second paragraph below figure#3.
    </div></div>

    From your link:

    "If you look at the math (trigonometry), the effects of canting are not difficult to calculate. Let's assume the highest point of trajectory for a long-range shot is 48 inches. If you tilted your rifle 5°, then the horizontal bullet displacement would be 4.2 inches [cosine (90-5)*48]."

    As I stated above, nowhere in this formula is scope height factored into the equation. Just because they "say" that "Use of large diameter objective scopes, mounted high off the barrel, exacerbates the cant error problem" doesn't make it so.

    (Edited to add) I believe their formula, that I quoted above, is incorrect, also. They are using "highest point of trajectory" in their formula, so that is only "half" of the error. Note that I specified "drop", as in the complete flight path, not just the trip to the top....

    Cheers,

    Bill
     
    #38
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    Not sure how close to the barrel you want to get. Not sure if you know, but there is a thing called "barrel whip". I have heard that scopes mounted to close to the barrel actually get hit by the barrel from firing it.
    Im no expert, but this is what I heard. Someone correct me if im wrong..


    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got a great deal on a Seekins 20moa base and med/high rings off the classifieds here. Installed them on my 700 knowing the rings might be a little too high. Now that they are installed, I'm thinking meds would be better? Isn't that the objective, to get the scope as close as possible to the bbl?
    thanks guys!!!

    http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss187/2000ssm6/Remy700.jpg[/img]]photobucket </div></div>
     
    #39
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    If I do decide to go with lower rings, they won't be low enough to suffer from barrel whip. If the bbl whips that much, I need a new rifle.
    grin.gif


    The more I lay down and shoulder this current setup, the more I like it. Just got to shoot her next.
     
    #40
    Re: Is my scope too high?

    As many have said if you are adjusting check weld you don't have it. Can be adjusted as others have said with adjustable check pad, or lower rings. Tips already listed to see if this even needs to be done.
     
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