- Thread starter DrDeath
- Start date
There are semi autos that can be accurate, but all apples vs apples comparison, a semi auto won't be as accurate a bolt. Semi autos have additional moving parts, and escaping of gases ( to cycle the bolt ). Semi autos will shoot with higher SD's and lower velocity from my experience. But I doesn't mean they aren't accurate, just when paired with equal components, the bolt should edge out.
Doesn't stop you from being competitive in NRL/PRS sports though. I'd say if you were doing competitive Benchrest, a semi-auto probably isn't going to be the that competitive.
+1 on Kidd Super Grade
Doesn't stop you from being competitive in NRL/PRS sports though. I'd say if you were doing competitive Benchrest, a semi-auto probably isn't going to be the that competitive.
+1 on Kidd Super Grade
As accurate as A bolt gun?
Yeah there are plenty. There are shit bolt guns just like there are shit semi's.
As accurate as the best bolt guns? Not really. Not on average anyway. Some one guy's TacSol that is a tack driver and stove pipes after every 5 rounds when the mag is touched or not touched doesn't count.
I don't want a bolt gun that jams or shits the bed on stages. I DEFINITELY don't want a semi-auto that has its tolerances tightened up that are needed to keep it running reliably shitting the bed on stages.
Everybody thinks they need to make a knockoff of the 10/22. Like it was ever a design built for performance. Its popularity is based solely on the lego parts aspect.
Maybe someday CZ will take its semi 22 mag (or name anybody for that matter) and make one that better combines function and form. Probably cost a fortune.
Yeah there are plenty. There are shit bolt guns just like there are shit semi's.
As accurate as the best bolt guns? Not really. Not on average anyway. Some one guy's TacSol that is a tack driver and stove pipes after every 5 rounds when the mag is touched or not touched doesn't count.
I don't want a bolt gun that jams or shits the bed on stages. I DEFINITELY don't want a semi-auto that has its tolerances tightened up that are needed to keep it running reliably shitting the bed on stages.
Everybody thinks they need to make a knockoff of the 10/22. Like it was ever a design built for performance. Its popularity is based solely on the lego parts aspect.
Maybe someday CZ will take its semi 22 mag (or name anybody for that matter) and make one that better combines function and form. Probably cost a fortune.
My Kidd Supergrade, in a Titan stock with Titan's rear anchor is as accurate as my Tikka T1X, and Bergara B14R. All 3 will shoot sub Moa out to 200yds. in good conditions.
Mark
Mark
Just another 10/22-pattern rifle, and if that's what you're looking for, why not just get a Kidd?
About that CZ semi, they did make one in .22LR but discontinued it some time back. I recently got a new old stock one and it's a good shooter. This past weekend I put 10 into an inch (SK Std+) at 100 without really putting much effort in. Was at the 100 yard line with the centerfire and decided to put some 22 on target. Was very surprised...
The x-ring rifle is no more accurate than my 1982 10/22, I plan on installing 18 inch Kidd tube soon, and probably a Kidd 2 stage trigger, the dual recoil springs should aid in a consistent square lock up, but I really don’t know for sure.
I think the better question is, can you use the increased accuracy of a bolt gun over a semi-auto?
After decades of bolt guns, As I got older, the weight and having to reset my hold after feeding rounds caused me to purchase a Ruger 10/22 Custom Shop. With Tenex Semi-auto benchrest, it shoots as good as my Rem 547 Custom Shop Target and I can shoot a round faster without breaking my hold. The Ruger cuts the fatigue associated with the longer holds.
EVERYBODY thinks they can use the inherent accuracy of thier rifle but few can unless you nail it to the bench.
-Richard
After decades of bolt guns, As I got older, the weight and having to reset my hold after feeding rounds caused me to purchase a Ruger 10/22 Custom Shop. With Tenex Semi-auto benchrest, it shoots as good as my Rem 547 Custom Shop Target and I can shoot a round faster without breaking my hold. The Ruger cuts the fatigue associated with the longer holds.
EVERYBODY thinks they can use the inherent accuracy of thier rifle but few can unless you nail it to the bench.
-Richard
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I'm putting together a .22 AR15 for competitions. I've got a Beyer barrel and a CLE barrel on order, i'll do a review when it gets here (in like 2-3 months)
I think Budrichard nailed it, yes their are SA out their that can shot sub moa at 50, 100, and even 200 but is the person pulling the trigger capable of sub moa, my 10/22 build will shoot .25 at 50 and .6 at 100 if the shooter does their part, now put my gun in my buddies hands and it shoots 1 inch at 50 and 2 inches at 100, so yes their are alot of 10/22's that can compete with bolt guns.
Carl
Carl
Volquartsen are worth a look for a semi. The ones i hbe been around shoot very well. Still hard to beat the bolts though.
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I agree with this also. I have a Feddersen barrel that absolutely prints very good and consistent groups. As good or consistent as my Vudoo... probably not QUITE, but enough to overcome the other hundred variables when shooting 22lr at distance...no. It's like when everyone talks about absolute lowest SD numbers in centerfire. That only matters to a certain point before the other factors override it.
There is no easy answer to this. So much depends on which brand/model of rifles you are comparing.
On top of that, each rifle of the same brand/model could shoot quite a bit different than another one.
Here is my guess. A run of the mill stock 22 semi-auto (like the 10/22) might shoot around 1/2 inch at 25 yards. A run of the mill stock 22 bolt (like a CZ 452) should do about 1/4 inch at 25 yards.
On top of that, each rifle of the same brand/model could shoot quite a bit different than another one.
Here is my guess. A run of the mill stock 22 semi-auto (like the 10/22) might shoot around 1/2 inch at 25 yards. A run of the mill stock 22 bolt (like a CZ 452) should do about 1/4 inch at 25 yards.
OP-
Lots of good info here. It all boils down to the intended purpose of your rifle.
My 10/22 with a Kidd ultralightweight barrel is almost as accurate as my CZ 457 Pro Varmint when shooting 6x5.
So, from a bench rest perspective, close, but not as good for precision.
I also wanted to test it to see if it could be useful in competition conditions and to a certain extent, yes... in faster shooting scenarios such as in the rapid-fire strings at the CMP sporter match. My son did great with it.
To stretch its legs a bit more, I took it out to an NRL22 match and used it suppressed... bad mistake. Even though I had cleaned both the can and rifle, the extractor gummed up and would not pull out the fired casing after the 3rd course of fire. I suspect holding the rifle at port arms at the start of the stage and carrying it in the muzzle up position between stages let power residue in the suppressor fall back into the action. In the stages where it was ejecting, it was accurate and the faster follow-up shots made it a breeze to hit 80-90%. When it jammed, I would maybe get 2 rounds off while trying to clear the malfunctions. Also, there was a lot of residue in the rotary magazines about 6 stages in.
I may try a future NRL22 type event in this rifle without the suppressor but it'll most likely be a range plinker and varmint hunter.
I hope that helps, YMMV, happy shooting.
Lots of good info here. It all boils down to the intended purpose of your rifle.
My 10/22 with a Kidd ultralightweight barrel is almost as accurate as my CZ 457 Pro Varmint when shooting 6x5.
So, from a bench rest perspective, close, but not as good for precision.
I also wanted to test it to see if it could be useful in competition conditions and to a certain extent, yes... in faster shooting scenarios such as in the rapid-fire strings at the CMP sporter match. My son did great with it.
To stretch its legs a bit more, I took it out to an NRL22 match and used it suppressed... bad mistake. Even though I had cleaned both the can and rifle, the extractor gummed up and would not pull out the fired casing after the 3rd course of fire. I suspect holding the rifle at port arms at the start of the stage and carrying it in the muzzle up position between stages let power residue in the suppressor fall back into the action. In the stages where it was ejecting, it was accurate and the faster follow-up shots made it a breeze to hit 80-90%. When it jammed, I would maybe get 2 rounds off while trying to clear the malfunctions. Also, there was a lot of residue in the rotary magazines about 6 stages in.
I may try a future NRL22 type event in this rifle without the suppressor but it'll most likely be a range plinker and varmint hunter.
I hope that helps, YMMV, happy shooting.
I have a marlin glenfeild model 60 i would put up against most bolt .22s. Its just hands down a beast.
Well Joe chacon 10/22 did well at the lapua center ... see the thread below.
So there are semis that will shoot really well
So there are semis that will shoot really well
Joe Chacon 10/22's and Lapua Ammunition
Hi All I just got off the phone with Joe a bit a go, and he was a bit excited. He keeps his back-up rifle at the Lapua Test Facility, to test new lots when they come in. If ammo shoots well in his rifle, it will shoot well in all the rifles he has built. The reason for his excitement...
www.rimfireaccuracy.com
Super impressive. Do they test his BR builds single fed or are they loading out of the magazine? Some concerns were the inconsistent feeding from 10/22 magazines and at a BR level, any of these little scrapes from pushing into the barrel could cause inconsistencies in group size. If that's all mag fed, that's pretty crazy good. My best lot of Center-X at Lapua's testing center didn't score as well as Joe's 10/22. Mine only scored 10 shot groups of 14mm, 15mm, and 15mm.
I don’t know if it was mag fed or single fed.
I wonder how his stacks up to newer bench rest vudoos and such
Slightly off topic, but I really have a hard time understanding why anyone uses a suppressor on a rimfire gun in a match. You still have to wear ear protection because of other shooters. It’s not like there is a deafening blast from your own rifle without a suppressor. And it makes it impossible to pick up shots on a timer, which is pretty obnoxious when it’s close to the buzzer.
Honestly though you don't really need hearing protection when you're spectating others. I'm not standing right up to them and it's certainly not very loud at all.
The only time I ever see shot timers used as well is done using par time so you don't even need to count the shots.
That statement is not remotely true. You can say its smart to or your decision to wear some ear pro. That's a fair statement.
We don't use sound sensitive buzzers.
We run 5-8 stages simultaneously to one timer. Your squads and neighboring squads can easily call your shot before or after the buzzer. Only added need is a MD supplied stopwatch left at the stage the whole day for the tie breaker stage.
We routinely process +20 shooters across multiple clubs. Runs like butter. And everybody finishes at the same time.
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Yeah I guess I was assuming you didn’t want hearing damage, sorry about that.
I've got well over a decade in loud work enviroments. Air compressors, da sanders, grinders, heavy equipment....where ear pro was mandatory.
On top of shooting/hunting since I was 5yrs old.
I have hearing damage. And I didn't get it from mouse fart suppressed .22's and unsuppressed .22's shooting mostly if not all subsonic ammo at NRL22 matches.
This rifle in particular shot slightly tighter groups with the suppressor, at least in controlled range conditions.
Factor in the jams and mental frustration, not competitive against a bolt gun.
YMMV, happy shooting.
Do you not have cz512s there?
In Australia we get the lever release version, cz515 in 22lr or 22mag.
In Australia we get the lever release version, cz515 in 22lr or 22mag.
There's a whole Auto Bench Rest Association for 10/22-style rifles. The "bull" is a 1/4" dot. each card has 20 "bulls" and it's shot at 50 yds. One shot at each bull and the elusive goal for many is a "200 card". Definitely not off-the-rack Rugers though.
