- Thread starter david walter
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Maybe try Winchester 748??? BLC-2
Is Staball 6,5 as stable?
Looks good for 6.5 and 22 creed. More stable than Superperformance, but near to it on the burn charts.
Looks good for 6.5 and 22 creed. More stable than Superperformance, but near to it on the burn charts.
The three products in the StaBALL line (6.5, Match, HD) are all billed as "temperature insensitive". They aren't to the level of the Hodgdon Extreme powders, but are head and shoulders better performing in this regard than any other ball powder.
Once again, the words Staball Match are not the same as Staball 6.5.
That being said, I fired some rounds cold soaked at 5 deg, some at 60, and some soaked at 150.
There was 72 fps spread between extremes which is right about 1 fps for every 2 degrees increase in temp.
That being said, I fired some rounds cold soaked at 5 deg, some at 60, and some soaked at 150.
There was 72 fps spread between extremes which is right about 1 fps for every 2 degrees increase in temp.
That chart was originally posted by @Rob01 on another forum, here is a link to it in the 6.5cm thread
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Yeah, CFE 223 is wild as a March hare when it comes to temperature. At least the pound I bought was. I loaded some 6.5 Grendel with it and shot some loads on a 100 degree day. I had pretty nasty brass flow on the case heads and cratered primers that were on the verge of blanking, well below published max. I still had two or three more charge weights to test, and had to go home and pull bullets. I’m convinced it was the heat that caused the increased pressure. Might be an ok powder for recreational range use, but I will never load “field” cartridges with it again.
I did a metering test with 8208XBR and found it to be very excellent.
From memory Varget was something like +/- .3gr and 8208 was all within. 1gr.
If found Benchmark to meter pretty well, but not as good as 8208.
EDIT:
I threw 50 charges of 8208, all but 6 were 25.9 or 26 gr, the other 6 went out to 25.8 or 26.1.
Varget was only 25 thrown charges and was not consistent at all.
From memory Varget was something like +/- .3gr and 8208 was all within. 1gr.
If found Benchmark to meter pretty well, but not as good as 8208.
EDIT:
I threw 50 charges of 8208, all but 6 were 25.9 or 26 gr, the other 6 went out to 25.8 or 26.1.
Varget was only 25 thrown charges and was not consistent at all.
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Staball Match is almost a dead ringer for Varget for charge weights and temp stability & performance. It’s a really good powder and is a little cheaper than Varget.
forget about those charts. every powder's temperature behavior / sensitivity is cartridge dependent.
probably it's better to put powders in 3 classes: very sensitive, middle sensitive, low sensitive... imho
8208 isn’t a ball powder but it meters well and is pretty temp insensitive, not quite as much as varget but extremely good. It also works well with 223 and 77-80gr bullets in bolt guns and gas guns. Does great out of a Dillon thrower.
AR Comp meters as good as ball and is equal to Varget in the temperature stability department.
Seconds on AR Comp. Supposed to be even better than Varget in regards to temp sensitivity.
Hey OP, Alliant pricing is bat shit crazy these days, forget AR comp! Guys mentioning XBR are crazy too, it’s unobtanium and faster than Varget.
Staball Match is THE answer to your question.
Staball Match is THE answer to your question.
Faster than Varget isn’t inherently a bad thing, Varget isn’t the be all end all powder for 308/223.
I tested XBR, Benchmark and Varget with 75s in my 223, Varget was 200fps slower than the other two, XBR was slightly fast than BM.
FWIW I’ve found Benchmark to meter surprisingly well, definitely better than Varget.
faster than varget is only good thing for 223REM, because varget is very slow powder for 223. it is very flexible because of old school design and big energy content, but for lighter bullets in 223 is quite slow...
and it has very big kernels, so it meters very bad.
and it has very big kernels, so it meters very bad.
What are you all metering your powder with that you are getting such weight variations?
For precision, H4895 works best for me for 55gr. SBK's and 69gr. SMK's, but gets edged out by Varget for 77gr. SMK's. I use a modified Chargemaster 1500 and do not get the variations shown above (and I weigh every thrown charge with a laboratory balance).
For precision, H4895 works best for me for 55gr. SBK's and 69gr. SMK's, but gets edged out by Varget for 77gr. SMK's. I use a modified Chargemaster 1500 and do not get the variations shown above (and I weigh every thrown charge with a laboratory balance).
A mechanical powder thrower, not a digital powder meter/trickler.
These tend to work better with ball powders or short cut stick powders.
Varget is known to not throw very accurately in mechanical throwers due to the powder size.
I've only got a Lee thrower which I've only recently started using. But with BM it's proven to be more than good enough for my cheap 223 loads.
I actually compared thrown charges to individually weighed ones and found no measurable difference with a load that shoots around .75moa. Not that surprising really but I wanted to test it anyway.
OP asked about ball powders that were similar to Varget…
Why are you guys talking about unavailable stick powders he can’t get? (XBR & H4895]
Why are you guys talking about unavailable stick powders he can’t get? (XBR & H4895]
He wants a powder that meters well, thus the recommendations for powders that meter well.
XBR might not be readily available but doesn't stop it being suitable for the job.
Benchmark is available on the otherhand.
absolutely agree I was only recommending AA2520 due to it being in the same burn range
TAC and N135 are versatile powders that perform beyond their listings on the charts. Meter good and not temp spikey.
.223 - 75-80gr
.308 - up to 155gr
N540 is a Varget substitute for 168-178gr.
.223 - 75-80gr
.308 - up to 155gr
N540 is a Varget substitute for 168-178gr.
If stick powders are fair game, then OP should try these:
N135, N140, N540, SW Precision
These are in stock at most online powder vendors.
N135, N140, N540, SW Precision
These are in stock at most online powder vendors.
Also… I use a lot of TAC, great powder that’s similar in burn speed to XBR8208. If you want precision loads with it, you may need to have a “summer load” and a “winter load”… as I’ve seen it pick up 50+ fps over a 30F temp change in 223 Remington. Which is roughly .3 to .5 grains of powder.
If you want good SD’s with it, you’ll need to run it at the top end of the load data.
If you want good SD’s with it, you’ll need to run it at the top end of the load data.
ARComp, 8208, H4895 and now Staball Match.
I love ARComp, but the Gucci pricing now is crazy. 8208 works great, but along with H4895, availability is a problem. Staball Match is working out well in 6mm ARC and .223 for me, is normally priced, constantly available and produced in the US, I'd definitely recommend giving it a try.
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