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Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

M

Mall Ninja308556

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 18, 2011
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So I found a cartridge my gun is in love with!

100 yards, from the bi-pod, 168 grain Federal Gold Metal Match BTHP, 3 round groups.

d1791939.jpg


7de74df6.jpg


60258c46.jpg


With a quarter instead of tape:

9741526b.jpg


0cd05f0a.jpg


So is grouping measured from the outside edge of the two farthest spread, or center to center of the widest spread, or total outside diameter?
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Ok so the second picture has the best line up of tape on the farthest apart group right? Which looks like around 7/8".

So 7/8" as a decimal is 0.875" - 0.30" = 0.575", so just over 1/2" which would translate to just over 1/2 MOA since it was 100 yards right?

Is that good for semi autos from a bi-pod? Or should I use a proper bench rest vice to take out human error? Or am I just splitting hairs? LOL

I would like to take this gun out to around 500-600 yards against steel silhouette. Is that reasonable or do I have too high of hopes as a noob?
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Measure outside to outside, subtract bullet diameter. </div></div>
Sounds great, except .30 bullets tend to make .270 holes in paper when they are not wadcutters. Speed makes for clean but undersize holes.

It's a materials thing called flex.

Those are good groups for a gas gun. IIRC, 5-round groups as a population tend to be something like 30% bigger than 3-round groups.

Measure extreme spread center-to-center by going outside edge to inside edge whenever possible.

But THAT metric measures accuracy based on the results of only two shots out of the entire group. 3, 5-round groups and measuring mean radius of every shot provides better proof of one load's accuracy compared to another's.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

So if you can hit a quarter first shot at 100 yards every time, and a quarter is around 7/8" would that make the rifle sub MOA at least?

Do these count as head shots? LOL

de0edbb5.jpg
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

I'd say they're good for a gas gun but past 600 yards you'll find the 168's will open up quickly. If your rig likes 168 FGM it will likely do well with 175's and the 175's will hold their pattern better beyond 600.

I'd say that its illegal to destroy currency but the government is destroying the value of it so it must be OK now.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

the reason they would be netter if you dont know less win-deflection but more drop because of mother gravity. that's a descent group if some one tells you it isn't they are a lair or a really good shot ether way id be happy with that so should you.

if its a free floated barrel and they say thats not god, take your gun and butt slap them a time or 2

if its a non free floated barrel and they say its not good take the butt and beat them till they stop crying then hit them 1 more time.

a moa gun shoots a group at 100 yrds 1" to 1/2 inch a sub moa is 1/2 inch to 1 hole thats center to center

that's my stories and im sticking to its.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

How dose it do at longer range? Looks good so far.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'd say that its illegal to destroy currency but the government is destroying the value of it so it must be OK now. </div></div>

+1 Government is destroying currency value which is worse than destroying currency, because to destroy currency actually increases the value of the dollar. haha.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mall Ninja762556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So if you can hit a quarter first shot at 100 yards every time, and a quarter is around 7/8" would that make the rifle sub MOA at least?

Do these count as head shots? LOL

de0edbb5.jpg
</div></div>

Assuming first round hits, that is pretty good shooting.

I dont see anything that's been destroyed---I'd hammer them flat and spend em.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Sorry I guess I should have stated the rig:

Remmy R-25 (DPMS LR-308)

20" Heavy barrel, free floated.

RRA 2 stage trigger

Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3-10 x 40

Caldwell bi-pod (with cant)

In regards to it being illegal to "destroy currency" I am well aware of that. Hypothetically, had I been the person to perforate said currency, which I cannot confirm, nor deny, then that being said, I would have to "guess" that the person who did, did so on the first round each time and from looking at "that persons" target, it would appear he/she missed a nickle two times by only the width of the bullet each time. That it also appears only 2 quarters were injured in the making of those photographs, and only 2 shots were fired for a 100% first hit probability.

Now, that being said, "IF" I was capable of doing this, and that my rifle seems to group non-match ammo the same no matter what the weight. Would 500-600 yard shots against silhouette targets be a reasonable goal?

Here is a list of what I have tried so far:

Remmy "Core locked" .308, 150 and 180 grain soft tip (deer droppers)

Winchester Power Point .308, 150 and 180 grain (deer droppers)

Winchester "white box" 147 grain 7.62/NATO

American Eagle .308, 150 grain (annealed target round)

PPU? (something like that) imported "match" ammo that was nothing match about it, shoots exactly like the production stuff just loaded HOT!

This rifle shoots all of them so closely I cannot determine one typ being better than the other, that was until I tried the Federal Gold Metal Match! The only reason I got the .308/168 grain in stead of the 7.62/NATO 175 grain was the 7.62 was $34.99/box! I got (localy) the 168 for $24.99. I have been buying locally just a box or two here and there to try out different loads to try and find one that sticks out as being better then the rest, then I was going to stock up on that type. So since none of the "production" target/hunting loads stand out, I will most likely stock up on the cheapest one, the Winchester "white box" 7.62 NATO and then get a good quantity of Gold Metal. I guess now that I see how awesome teh 168 is ill go buy a box of the 175 grain and then whichever one works best ill start searching the "inna-net" for the best deal on it.

Is it better to shoot the rifle from the "pod" like I have been doing to see what kind of groups I can get, or is it better to "cheat" and use a sled to illiminate human error?
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mall Ninja762556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Sorry I guess I should have stated the rig:

Remmy R-25 (DPMS LR-308)

20" Heavy barrel, free floated.

RRA 2 stage trigger

Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3-10 x 40

Caldwell bi-pod (with cant)

In regards to it being illegal to "destroy currency" I am well aware of that. Hypothetically, had I been the person to perforate said currency, which I cannot confirm, nor deny, then that being said, I would have to "guess" that the person who did, did so on the first round each time and from looking at "that persons" target, it would appear he/she missed a nickle two times by only the width of the bullet each time. That it also appears only 2 quarters were injured in the making of those photographs, and only 2 shots were fired for a 100% first hit probability.

Now, that being said, "IF" I was capable of doing this, and that my rifle seems to group non-match ammo the same no matter what the weight. Would 500-600 yard shots against silhouette targets be a reasonable goal?

Here is a list of what I have tried so far:

Remmy "Core locked" .308, 150 and 180 grain soft tip (deer droppers)

Winchester Power Point .308, 150 and 180 grain (deer droppers)

Winchester "white box" 147 grain 7.62/NATO

American Eagle .308, 150 grain (annealed target round)

PPU? (something like that) imported "match" ammo that was nothing match about it, shoots exactly like the production stuff just loaded HOT!

This rifle shoots all of them so closely I cannot determine one typ being better than the other, that was until I tried the Federal Gold Metal Match! The only reason I got the .308/168 grain in stead of the 7.62/NATO 175 grain was the 7.62 was $34.99/box! I got (localy) the 168 for $24.99. I have been buying locally just a box or two here and there to try out different loads to try and find one that sticks out as being better then the rest, then I was going to stock up on that type. So since none of the "production" target/hunting loads stand out, I will most likely stock up on the cheapest one, the Winchester "white box" 7.62 NATO and then get a good quantity of Gold Metal. I guess now that I see how awesome teh 168 is ill go buy a box of the 175 grain and then whichever one works best ill start searching the "inna-net" for the best deal on it.

Is it better to shoot the rifle from the "pod" like I have been doing to see what kind of groups I can get, or is it better to "cheat" and use a sled to illiminate human error?</div></div>

Tell "that person"...nice shooting. You should also inform "them" of Palmetto State Armory being a Hide vendor and they sell FGMM 175gr for $18.99/box.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Thanks for making my time at the range even more expensive now... I'm going to have to try and shoot some quarters this week.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Tell "that person"...nice shooting.</div></div>

Thanks, uh I mean, I will let him/her know!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You should also inform "them" of Palmetto State Armory being a Hide vendor and they sell FGMM 175gr for $18.99/box. </div></div>

18.99 WoW! Ill be giving them a call for sure. Hopefully the shipping doesnt kill. =)
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outdoorsman9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for making my time at the range even more expensive now... I'm going to have to try and shoot some quarters this week. </div></div>

If you spend them afterwords, it wont cost as much! hahaha

Rumor has it that said person used to shoot dimes, but that was with a Sako bolt gun with big dollar glass (lots of mag)... =)
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

YEs - this is very good shooting for a gas gun on a bipod. I'm actually surprised you asked that - my first thought was "Show off!" But then i thought, I shott the same with my gas gun on a bipod.

Enjoy and take her out to the distances you're looking at. You're using match ammo which is good, thought much about how much more consistnecy/accuracy you would get if you hand loaded?
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rick Just Rick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YEs - this is very good shooting for a gas gun on a bipod. I'm actually surprised you asked that - my first thought was "Show off!" But then i thought, I shott the same with my gas gun on a bipod.

Enjoy and take her out to the distances you're looking at. You're using match ammo which is good, thought much about how much more consistnecy/accuracy you would get if you hand loaded? </div></div>

LOL! Not showig off, aside from having a 17hmr bolt gun years ago for about a month before I sold it, this is my first "precision" rifle. Ive only had it about a month. My previous experience was limited to shooting my buddies rifles occasionally on the weekends.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

On Palmetto State Armory's website they list a 7.62/NATO Federal Gold Medal Match 175 grain and a .308 Federal Gold Medal Match 175 grain, whats the difference? Does Federal load the 7.62 to a higher pressure or are they basically the same round just call something different and a $1 different price?
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Yes that is good shooting especially if it is consistent.

If you start handloading for it I think you'll find you can make ammunition yourself that will be that good for about half the cost.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mall Ninja762556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On Palmetto State Armory's website they list a 7.62/NATO Federal Gold Medal Match 175 grain and a .308 Federal Gold Medal Match 175 grain, whats the difference? Does Federal load the 7.62 to a higher pressure or are they basically the same round just call something different and a $1 different price?</div></div>

The .308 is loaded to 65,000 and the 7.62x51 is loaded to 50,000 and also has a bit thicker walls. There is no difference in accuracy and as such, I ordered 200rds of the .308Win.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The .308 is loaded to 65,000 and the 7.62x51 is loaded to 50,000 and also has a bit thicker walls. There is no difference in accuracy and as such, I ordered 200rds of the .308Win. </div></div>

Thats weird, isnt the main difference between .308 and 7.62 the fact that the NATO version is higher pressure (and also thicker cased to handle the pressure)?
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mall Ninja762556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The .308 is loaded to 65,000 and the 7.62x51 is loaded to 50,000 and also has a bit thicker walls. There is no difference in accuracy and as such, I ordered 200rds of the .308Win. </div></div>

Thats weird, isnt the main difference between .308 and 7.62 the fact that the NATO version is higher pressure (and also thicker cased to handle the pressure)? </div></div>

that "higher pressure" is about a 1/64th of a inch at 100 yrds so no difference, and when and if you reload, their wont be anymore if their was ever any
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

50,000 vs. 65,000 what? PSI? CUP? How was each measured? Bottom line is that they are roughly identical, which has been beat to death here and elsewhere for years.

1) Different units measured for SAAMI and NATO
2) Different measurement tools for Copper Units Pressure vs. Pounds Square Inch (and for SAAMI specs vs. NATO specs)
3) This equals different readings for roughly equivalent pressure curves
4) Add to the difficulty the fact that there are rifles (older Mauser types, like FR-8, others?) that are chambered in 7.62x51 (.308), but weren't for the higher NATO spec and shot Santa Barbara (Spanish Armory IIRC) at lower pressures, and people start thinking that modern .308 and NATO 7.62x51 aren't the same.

5) FN (Belgium) who made the FAL for almost 100 countries, used to export to the U.S. market. The rifles destined for NATO countries had 7.62 NATO stamped on the receivers. The ones destined for U.S. market had .308 stamped on the same receivers.

Basically it is the same. No WAY is the 50K comparable to the 65K - as if the 65K (.308) as posted by KillShot is 30% higher pressure than the 7.62x51mm.

The fact that the two show up as 1/64th inch deviation (at 100 yards) according to another shooter should tell you how close they are.

 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

The 762x51 "match" stuff out there the only practical difference is that the cases have a visible annealing mark (rounds aren't as polished). Velocity etc will be the same or very very close depending on batch.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Well one thing is for sure, my rig does not like the 7.62/175 grain. The groups opened up double over the 308/168! If the only benefit to the 7.62 is the annealed case then its not worth the higher price...
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mall Ninja762556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well one thing is for sure, my rig does not like the 7.62/175 grain. The groups opened up double over the 308/168! If the only benefit to the 7.62 is the annealed case then its not worth the higher price... </div></div>

what twist is your barrel?
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

1:10, it shoots light 147 grain WWB 7.62 NATO Same group so it doesnt seem to be the twist...
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mall Ninja762556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well one thing is for sure, my rig does not like the 7.62/175 grain. The groups opened up double over the 308/168! If the only benefit to the 7.62 is the annealed case then its not worth the higher price... </div></div>

I don't know how much trigger time you have behind an AR10 but I'd be reluctant to think that there's one out there that "doesn't like" 175's. I'd agree that 168's do seem to group tighter up close (maybe 1/8 MOA at best) but that advantage is long gone once out past 600 yards or if there is any wind, and tight grouping up close is not exactly the intended role of the platform. Double the group size is tough to swallow and sounds like the shooter to me but I'm only speculating. If you're not going to stretch its legs then my comments really don't apply.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

I can understand your doubts. But here is the scenario as it unfolded.

I have had trouble getting rid of copper fouling. Hoppes and Tetra didnt do sheet. I was told Bass Pro had one that was recommended by a local shop. I couldnt find the one they talked about but did find one similar (has a warning not to leave it in longer than 15 minutes). I used it the night before the range and after just a couple applications it completely cleaned out all the copper. So heres how the shoot went:

Left the action and bolt/carrier "dirty" (still trying to learn the limits of the platform)

Bore freshly copper solvent cleaned and brushed.
Light coat of oil.
First group was 3 shots Federal Gold Metal 7.62/175 Grain
Result was about a 1.5-2" group (same group I get with Winchester Power Point 180 Grain, my current choice for hunting load)
Waited for the next "session" (20 minutes)
Shot 3 more FGMM/7.62/175, same group.
Immediately switched back to the FGMM .308/168 grain and shot 3 into another quarter size hole (same as the first set of picks in this thread)
At that point decided to dirty the bore up with a box of Winchester White Box 7.62/147 Grain. Shot the same size group as the FGMM/7.62/175 and experienced 1 fail to feed.
Switched back to 3 shot group of FGMM/.308/168 Grain and shot another quarter size group.

So my take on this is my rig will shoot clean or dirty the same groups, cold or warm barrel. The FGMM/.308/168 will group on top of a quarter no matter the barrel situation. My rig also likes the heavier grain rounds as the only time it fails to feed or lock the bolt open when empty is on very light/cheap ammo, but does not like them in regards to group size at 100-200 yards.

I have yet to test this thing at my goal of 400-600 yards. So I have no reason to doubt you guys that the heavier bullets will become the better load for that situation. At this point, if I was to hunt with it I would most likely use the FGMM/.308/168 for 100-200 yds.

In regards to hand loading, I am considering the initial investment to time too pay off ratio right now. I have never hand loaded though so that alone worries me! =)
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mall Ninja762556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have yet to test this thing at my goal of 400-600 yards. So I have no reason to doubt you guys that the heavier bullets will become the better load for that situation. At this point, if I was to hunt with it I would most likely use the FGMM/.308/168 for 100-200 yds. </div></div>
Your logic is sound... Go with what works for what you're doing. You'll know when its time to change if you shoot it enough.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

MN, try the 175s in .308, not 7.62. There are very slight differences between the 7.62 and .308 chambers. My LR308 is not even a reliable shooter with 7.62 ammo, but is a sub-MOA hammer with .308 FGM, either 168s or 175s. DPMS CS confirmed this for me, and recommended against using 7.62 in the gun.
What I did find is that the accuracy with 168s fell off dramatically at 750yds, and was useless at 1000. The 175s performed consistently out to 1k in my gun, but that's as long as I've shot it.
So the 168s should be great for everything inside 600yd, and they are a bit cheaper than 175s. If you go farther than 600, use 175s.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Oh, and yes, that's good shooting.
smile.gif
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Yeah the chambers on .308 rifles are supposed to be "tighter" for better accuracy. Supposedly, 7.62 rifles are supposed to be looser for better reliability at a cost in accuracy. But all my research tells me that the cartridge is externally identical with pressure being the only difference (the case wall is annealed and thicker to handle increased pressure).

Originally the plan was to have a stock of cheap mil-surp ammo for general purpose and a smaller stash of high quality match ammo for important stuff like hunting but this thing won't cycle mil-surp worth a damn so i'm back to square one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TenZero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, and yes, that's good shooting.
smile.gif
</div></div>

Thanks!
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

I'm glad to see that this is largely considered a good group for a gas gun. I'm getting better on the MA TEN and here's a recent 5-shot group with 175gr FGMM:

Target4TopRight.jpg


I'd love to see what this rifle would do with an expert behind it!
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

These were 175gr SMK hand loads out of my home built ma-10 with a fulton 22" 1/12 twist barrel. 168's were good out to about 750-800 yards but anything past that and they would start to tumble all over the place. There was no telling where they were going to go.

IMG_0959.jpg


P.S. This is a 10 shot group on a 2" dot at just over 100 yards. The two "fliers" were the 9th and 10th shots that I let go as the wind whipped up and started bending my crappy PVC pipe target frame.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Finally got to try my skills on longer ranges. Well I was told the target I was shooting at was 500 yds (this was the farthest I could find with my 10x. It was a silhouette and the shoulder span was exactly the distance between 2 mil dots. It was up hill a bit and took 4 mils hold over. Does that sound correct? There was another target (silhouette ) at 300 yds. with a basket ball size circle about 20 yards to the left of it (head shot?). I was able to tag both of those easily (first try on the silhouette, circle took 2 shots). The 500 yd one took 3 shots. I think much further than 500 would definitely benefit from more magnification than 10x! I have pretty good eye sight, but I feel if I could have found the 1000 yd target I would most likely only hit it with a lot of luck. But I was unable to find it. (the guy next to me did find it, but he had a 24x scope!
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

If your rifle is stock, then those are good groups.
The NATO 147's may look like good groups at 100 yards but they disperse pretty quickly past 200 yards. The NATO 147 gr. bullets are <span style="font-style: italic">NOT </span>the <span style="text-decoration: underline">best</span> design, they are made for battle, <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> accuracy.
The 168 grainer's inability to buck the wind past 600 yards out of a 20" barrel will become evident. The 175's will let you go about 100 yards further than the 168's in the same barrel length. Look at the B.C.'s for each bullet.
Did I miss it or has nobody else mentioned barrel length / velocity gain?
Your 20" barrel, while accurate at close to mid range, won't be pushing the velocity a 24" barrel would do. A 24" barrel would push the 168 to a nice group at 800 yards, but it would push the 175's to the same group out to 900 yards.
I have a Armalite AR-10(T) Carbine 16" (My end of days rifle. Love it!). Damn thing is a laser at short range, especially with the 168 FGMM's like you are shooting. However the lack of velocity at the muzzle due to unburned powder/lack of gas pressure propellant puts about a 600 yard cap on distance shooting. And the Carbine also does not favor the 175 grains either.
However my AR-10 (TU .300 RSAUM) drills the 1000 yard target consistently with 180 grain handloads @2850 fps.
You've got good targets, but I would suggest shooting 5 shot groups. It will make you better, and it will reveal your rifle's accuracy better.
As far as shooting currency, could you imagine what would happen if they put Obama's portrait on the $3 bill?
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Well that shows my ignorance, from what I read anything longer than 20" was a waste as the powder is already expended.

What is the best length of barrel for .308?
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Powder is fully burnt in the first <8" or so of barrel and I think the greatest amount of expansion occurs in <12". After that the more barrel you have the more expansion there will be out to I think a theoretical 40"...

There are guys who use 30" barrels with the 308 for instance. Also, there is no "best barrel length".
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

Well it looks like you answered your own question, and if I had seen this post before you did I would have told you that yes your rig with that ammo is fully capable of ringing 500yd steel all day long.

What I'll tell you now is that your rig is most likely capable of 1000yd accuracy. (I'm defining accuracy here as consistently hitting man sized target)

My humble advice is as follows: Before you go investing large portions of money into your rifle and equipment you will appreciate a greater ROI by spending some money on it's operator (you). Take a long range precision rifle course.

You'll be surprised at what you and your rifle will be capable of with a little professional training. In a long term sense it will save you a lot of time, money and frustration. If nothing else, you'll be able to pinpoint the shortcomings of your rig as opposed to speculating on barrel length and scope power.

If you were so inclined to do so, I highly highly highly recommend Badlands Tactical in Grandfield OK. www.badlandstactical.net

I shoot 168gr a-max hornady match ammo out to 1k on 20"x40" steel through my stock (sans the PRS) Armalite AR-10(t) with fixed 10x glass (swfa ss). I don't say that to brag, I say that as a testament to what the guys at Badlands have taught me.

*This is not an advertisement nor do I receive any sort of compensation from Badlands. There are a lot of great schools across the country and I'm sure you would benefit from attending any number of them.

Let us know how things develop.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neal0124</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

IMG_0959.jpg


</div></div>

does anyone else see a stick figure in the middle of this group??? Sorry just thought it was funny...

and to neal0124, hell of a good shot for 10 rounds...
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

That is some good shooting. I am waiting on my AR to get here and hopefully it is a shooter.
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Exo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
does anyone else see a stick figure in the middle of this group??? Sorry just thought it was funny...</div></div>

LOL I see it...
 
Re: Is this a good grouping for a gas gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There are guys who use 30" barrels with the 308 for instance.</div></div>

Yikes!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, there is no "best barrel length". </div></div>

Sorry, I should have said the best barrel length for velocity, but that in itself is complicated! =)
 
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