Is this a stupid idea?

[HomeSlice]

I want a rifle that is versatile enough to do a lot of stuff – F/TR, NRA Long Range, Tactical Matches, Palma, maybe even regular NRA High Power in the match rifle class. I know such a beast doesn’t exist, but can I get “close enough” for me?

Here’s my logic:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]The odds that I can afford more than 1 precision rife anytime in the next 5 years are close to 0%. If I want to do this stuff, it’s all going to be with the same gun or not at all.[*]These types of events are the only practice I’m going to be able to get at anything over 250 yds[*]I’m not afraid of shooting irons – expert in service rifle though it’s been a while.[*]I don’t expect to win, this is me practicing and honing my own skills. The only real competition is with my own previous score.[*]I can’t afford a custom build. I really can’t afford to do what I’m thinking about doing here, but that may or may not mean I don’t do it![/list]
So, I’ve been looking at rifles for quite a sometime while I try to save some money. This is a LONG process for me, so I’ve had plenty of time to research. I’ve settled on a FN SPR, either an A3G or A5M – not sure which yet. So, a few questions about these rifles:

1. With a USO 3.2-17 ERGO 44mm and a decent set of rings, can I make F/TR weight? Will this leave enough room for a bipod? My math says it’s going to be really close…
2. Is this scope a good or poor choice? Why or why not?
3. To shoot high power or NRA long range, I need to be able to use irons. There’s obviously no front sight mount. How bad of a thing is it to have one installed, and why? I’ve got a redfield Olympic I got from the CMP a long time ago and would like to use it. Any idea what base height to use? See #4, as it has to align with the rear sight…
4. I also have an old Redfield Palma I use on my 52D. Does someone make an adaptor of sorts to hook this up to the rail? Or, would that not be in the right position? What options do I have to use this sight? If none, what options for a rear peep at all?
5. Any thoughts on the A3G vs. the A5M? Looks to me that the only difference is the stock, but there’s also close to 2lbs difference. Is there something else?
6. Is the barrel life marketing crap or real? I can’t shoot ½ MOA consistently, and if I can get 5-10K rounds through the barrel before it gave out that would be incredible. I just don’t know if this is a realistic expectation…
7. I think I need the aftermarket bottom metal so I can swap mags in a high-power match. Sounds like I can’t do this myself. Anything else I should have done by a good smith while they have it?

Is this a stupid idea? I’d really like to get into the precision rifle stuff, but can’t really justify it unless I have the capability to really use it. That, to me, means shooting as many matches as I can.

Thoughts? Thanks for helping out a newb...

Thanks is advance,
-Slice

 

[bohem]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

I don't know about the adapters for making the 52's sights work on a different rifle, but I'd imagine someone does.

As far as your plan, I think you can easily find an iron sight rear that will be able to swap on and off with the USO. It would require you to be able to check zero's, but I think you can do it.

Is it ideal? No, but it should work. As far as the front sight issue, I think it should not be a big deal to have one put on there, just get a gunsmith who is very familiar with building palma rifles and see what he says, there's a good chance that it can be done.

I think the USO should do what you want it to, I don't know about the weight of completed package, but it's not a bad scope at all.

The 308 will give you barrel life in the range you're asking for, so I think that's a realistic goal for sure.

I think overall this is a highly custom build and it might actually end up costing you more than building 2 rifles, one for irons and one for optics. You can put them both in 308 if you want to, but looking at the matches you want to shoot, having one in 260 and one in 308 is probably a better idea.

It's an interesting project, and I think it can be accomplished in general, but I get this gut feeling that such a flexible use rifle is going to cost you almost the same, if not more, than 2 dedicated pieces would.

Have you considered a tube gun with a trued 700 action for Palma?

 

[308Dude]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

+1 multiple rigs. I've not heard of anyone doing this and there's probably a good reason.

This is an expensive sport. Get over it. You may want to consider focusing on fewer disciplines. Each of them take time to master. I'd build one purpose-built rig and shoot one discipline while saving to get a second rifle.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

A T2K with two barrels, one in 6XC and the other in 308 Palma, will do all that you ask of it and not be a compromise in any of them.

The only exception to my statement is the Anschutz trigger is not the first choice for dirty field (aka "tactical") conditions.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

The hardest part of the concept will be finding a stock that works effectively across the disciplines.

I think a lightweight McMillan tactical with LOP and Cheekrest adjustments would be as close to ideal as one might get.

Ballasting is an option, and I doubt anyone's seriously considered this, but building hollows into the forearm and butt are could allow the addition/removal of weighted inserts.

Switch barrels can be an option for chamberings, twists, etc, and Champions' Choice could be a source for iron sights that are add-ons. OldEyes on this site may have some useful suggestions.

But there's no way around the necessity of a second rig, chambered in .22LR.

Marksmanship excellence has its origin and longevity inextricably entwined with a regimen of large volumes of practice shooting. Attempting to meet this requirement with centerfire equipment and ammunition is unconscionably expensive, both in ammunition costs and bore wear.

The .22LR is indispensible.

It need be neither a precision implement, nor anything more than consistently reliable.

Marksmanship proficiency is not about small groups, it's about shooting a firearm to its best potential, whatever that may be. The only thing that smaller groups help is the ego, but the consistent groups, whatever the size, are what help the skill set.

Same thing about expensive match ammo. Moderately priced target stuff is good enough as long as the rifle shoots it consistently.

Sights should be similar in nature, but money is better spent on more ammo than superwhizbang gear.

The good thing about .22LR is that you don't need to shoot nearly as far to learn how to deal with marksmanship at the limits of a cartridge's capability, which is what LR shooting is truly all about.

Everything else is just about how far you have to walk to change the targets.

Greg

 

[Criver600]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

You need to hook up with the High Power/Long Range/F-TR crowd. What you are describing is basically an NRA "Match Rifle" Bound to be several decent rifles floating around with all the big dog shooters going to the Tubb 2K. I see quite a few match rifles in the McMillan Baker Special stock that would be perfect for and all around rifle. Good Luck and Good shooting.

 

[chrisj]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

I may have missed your price range, but if you get an Elisio tube stock, you can use a Rem 700 barreled action (get a 700 varmin t or SPS heavy bbld rifle in 7mm-08 or 308) and have 1 rifle for everything. www.competitionshootingstuff.com Their R10 stock which can shoot long action or short action calibers is even being tested by the military for use as a sniper rifle in the future. The R5 handles short action calibers. They are around $1,000 and come with adj cheek, 2 mags, scope mount and handstop. NO gunsmith needed. Anyone can bolt a Rem 700 bbld action into it. That would be my pick hands down for 1 Rifle to do all. And NO..it's not a stupid idea at all. Everyone isn't rich!

P.S. If you get more money..you can swap bbld actions in that stock in minutes, so you can have numerous calibers. You can even bolt in a Rem 40x in .22 LR.

 

[bohem]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chrisj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I may have missed your price range, but if you get an Elisio tube stock, you can use a Rem 700 barreled action (get a 700 varmin t or SPS heavy bbld rifle in 7mm-08 or 308) and have 1 rifle for everything. www.competitionshootingstuff.com Their R10 stock which can shoot long action or short action calibers is even being tested by the military for use as a sniper rifle in the future. The R5 handles short action calibers. They are around $1,000 and come with adj cheek, 2 mags, scope mount and handstop. NO gunsmith needed. Anyone can bolt a Rem 700 bbld action into it. That would be my pick hands down for 1 Rifle to do all. And NO..it's not a stupid idea at all. Everyone isn't rich!

P.S. If you get more money..you can swap bbld actions in that stock in minutes, so you can have numerous calibers. You can even bolt in a Rem 40x in .22 LR. </div></div>

I knew there had to be some way of doing it along these lines. I didn't know that the R10's were this flexible. Thanks for teaching me something as well.

 

[chrisj]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

You need to use a Rem 700 (or clone) long action for the R10, but reportedly, short action calibers feed just as well. You may want to go over to www.6mmbr.com and look at the review that a top shooter wrote on the R10.
look at guns of the week

 

[HomeSlice]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

Darn!

And I thought I knew what I wanted. This is a lot to think about, and I'm glad I solicited some feedback from you guys.

10-4 on the rimfire practice. I have that covered w/ a Win 52D w/ both irons and an old target scope. Can shoot up to 125 yds in the backyard at home.

Not sure where the F/TR or Long Range crowd hangs out, a link to their forum(s) would be greatly appreciated.

I think I'm going to look into these tube guns, that's a really interesting idea...

Thanks a bunch, and anymore feedback is certainly appreciated.

-Slice

 

[HomeSlice]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

Oh, one more thing -- and this will expose the degree of my newb-ness...

Is the Remmy 700 SPS that chrisj mentioned the one w/ the 5R barrel that everyone talks about? If not, which one is that (link please)? I didn't see a lot of talk about it on rem's website.

Thanks again,
-Slice

 

[OFIS]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

the sps is NOT a 5R

the 5R barreled rifle is called a 5R

i never see them on remingtons website either, try the sale forum here, gunbroker, or pop an ad up on the wtb forum.

if i were a more rational person, i would have just gotten a 5R and been done with it... id say its hard to beat for a 'budget' do it all.

 

[DustyJacket]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

The official name for the rifle (from the packaging) is; "700 Stainless Special 5-R Milspec Barrel".

The label then says "Model 700 Stainless, 24" Barrel .308 Win", "Order # 29662"


a.k.a. 700SS 5-R Milspec

 

[kombar]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

For your Redfield Palma, check out the Medesha Firearms adjustable sight base (I think it's compatible anyway). It can be used on standard bolt actions and ARs by flipping the mounting plate. It's also height adjustable in 5 MOA increments so you don't need to worry about what height base to buy. Medesha Firearms

For the front sight, either have the barrel drilled and tapped for a dovetail base, or have the muzzle turned down for one of the clamp on style bases. Any smith should be able to do that.

As far as your one rifle solution, I was going to suggest an AR-15 or AR-10, but that Eliseo RT10 looks like a pretty good idea. Just get a cheap Walmart 700 ADL in 30-06 or .270, rebarrel to the cartridge of your choice and throw it in that stock.

If you get a cheap 700 and rebarrel, you'll end up spending less money, and have a better rifle than if you had bought a 5R, unless you were planning on keeping the 5R bone stock.

 

[chrisj]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

Kombar has it right. Just by a cheap Rem 700 action, barreld action or rifle..sell the bbl and stock and magazine assedmbly and install a custom bbl. you should have a nice quality bbld action for well under a Grand. These tube stocked rifle kick butt in Highpower matches. If you want to see an Elisio all built up..go to www.creedmoorsports.com and look at their CS-1 rifle. It's expensive because it has a custom action and Anschutz trigger and so on, but it's a serious rifle for competition.

 

[HomeSlice]

Re: Is this a stupid idea?

Will any 700 action work -- doesn't matter if its a drop mag or floorplate?