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Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

cms81586

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 23, 2005
143
0
AZ
I bought a precision AR in .308 a few weeks ago and have put about 300 rnds through it over the past few weekends. The rounds fired were a combination of 150gr Remington UMC FMJ, MagTech .308 150gr FMJ, and my handloads with varying charges of Varget and 178gr AMAX's. Some of the hotter handloads showed some pressure signs such as flattened primers but the powder charges were still a full grain below the listed max charge in my manual. Funny part is the MagTech ammo was very underpowered and caused short stroking, yet still exhibited the same case bulging. Cases from all three showed a bulge at the case head that measures .480" at the widest point, where it should be .473" at the rim. When resizing some cases my RCBS full length die actually scraped brass off of the case wall and formed a ring forward of the rim. Others are extrememly difficult to resize. I though I was not using enough case lube but even after heavy lubing I ran into the same issues.
After having this issue I took some factory new .308 rnds and dropped one into the chamber. The chamber is loose and the MFG has told me this is part of the design to allow the feeding of various types of ammo, but I can almost slide a .010 feeler gauge between the round and the chamber wall. It seems too sloppy to me. I'm going to get a chamber cast done but does anyone else have any suggestions?

CMS
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

Maybe you have a short throat? How much jump between the AMAXs and your rifling?
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like a generous chamber. . . .

Does it shoot well?

BMT </div></div>

It's shooting 3/4 MOA but I'm still learning how to shoot a gas gun. I'm not disappointed with the performance of the rifle or functioning, just the fact that as of right now I'm worried about overworking the brass to the point of a case head separation after only 3-4 loadings. Not sure exactly how far of a jump to the throat but I'm seating all of my loads at 2.820 OAL to allow the rounds to feed reliably through PMAGS.

Is this an issue with as much as the brass is expanding with each firing and then being worked when resizing? It's definitely more work on the brass than my bolt guns. Should I still go with the chamber casting just to make sure it's not way out of spec?
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

Chris - you can try the feeler gauge trick on my 20" version of your rifle. I'd be interested in how it does. Hang on to a few rounds of the factory fodder for this comparison.

Note that this is gun #2 that had trouble with your 178 AMAX load - I see a trend here
wink.gif


Factory brass and ammo is about .002" undersized on about every dimension. It is gonna be loose until fired.

Also note that I have no intention of making ammo for my civie M110 that goes beyond the performance of M118LR or M852, the two rounds the WS was designed to work with. So far so good with my reloads in the KAC.
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cms81586</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Should I still go with the chamber casting just to make sure it's not way out of spec? </div></div>

I would.

Sounds like a 'smith should a least look at the brass and give you some guidance.

BMT
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

Im not too sure on AR's as we cant own them here, but I would get the chamber checked just in case.

Something is not right, and having to exert that much force on brass in what should be normal sizing, is not a good thing.
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chris - you can try the feeler gauge trick on my 20" version of your rifle. I'd be interested in how it does. Hang on to a few rounds of the factory fodder for this comparison.

Note that this is gun #2 that had trouble with your 178 AMAX load - I see a trend here
wink.gif


Factory brass and ammo is about .002" undersized on about every dimension. It is gonna be loose until fired.

Also note that I have no intention of making ammo for my civie M110 that goes beyond the performance of M118LR or M852, the two rounds the WS was designed to work with. So far so good with my reloads in the KAC. </div></div>

I was thinking it may have been a issue with the loads as well but it's not just doing it with those loads. The Magtech was very underpowered. Granted the rifle is new but it caused 3-4 short strokes in 50 rnds. Even at a lower pressure that brass was deformed as well as Remington UMC. Both factory loads did the same thing as the handloads.

If you see this and aren't busy drop me a line tonight if you don't mind. I'll be up for a while and would call but I don't have your number anymore.

Chris
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

I just measured a couple fired LC, they are 472 out of mine (DPMS barrel). 480 sounds like a lot, how are your primers seating in the fired brass?
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just measured a couple fired LC, they are 472 out of mine (DPMS barrel). 480 sounds like a lot, how are your primers seating in the fired brass? </div></div>

Haven't reprimed any of it yet. I just resized/deprimed/tumbled/trimmed it and still have more brass that hasn't been resized yet. The handloads have all been resized already but the factory ammo I shot was not and shows the same issues.

CMS
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

Easy enough. Thanks! I'm free in the evenings if you wanted to check this thing out.

Chris
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cms81586</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's shooting 3/4 MOA but I'm still learning how to shoot a gas gun. I'm not disappointed with the performance of the rifle or functioning, just the fact that as of right now I'm worried about overworking the brass to the point of a case head separation after only 3-4 loadings. </div></div>

With a chamber this generous, you have two choices, have a generous-chamber FL sizing die custom made, or learn to Neck Only size the brass after measuring the position of the sholder.
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

I have never had a new 308 semi in any configuration bulge the cases as yours is doing. If it's a new rifle I would send it back for repair. If It isn't I would have a good gunsmith check it out. It sure sounds like an out of spec chamber IMO.
Good luck I hope it works out for you.
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

We just mic'd fired cases out of my 20" EMR and CMS's 16" EMC.

His mic .009" larger at the base than mine.

Rifle is going back to KAC.
 
Re: Issue with .308 brass after firing...bulging...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KAC</div></div>

Ouch. Let us know how it works out.