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Rifle Scopes I've been Vortex'd

beetroot

beetroot

Old Salt
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 10, 2018
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So I recenetly coined the term "Leupolded" which is basically Leupolds ability to get a good idea for a new scope and screw it up with dumb reticle options and other specs they get wrong. I guess that means Vortexed/Vortex'd is when your Vortex scopes shits itself at the worst possible time.

I shot a 22lr match last weekend, I'd been testing/playing around with my scopes and decided to use my 3-15 PST for this particular match.
The first 4 of 8 stages went well and I was happy with my scores but the next 3 went to shit with a lot of misses that I was putting down to wind I wasn't seeing, or just sucking. The final stage 8 of 8 though was prone with zero wind and here I discovered I was hitting 0.8 - 1.0Mil right.

I got home checked everything over on my rifle and gave the barrel a clean.
Checking the scope on paper I was still hitting 1ish Mil right but the elevation was perfect (it's been pretty windy here (right to left) so not sure the exact value).
Because I'd been testing scopes the week before the match I had 4 other scopes all zeroed for this rifle, so I checked 3 of the scopes out (a LRHS, PM2, PST 2.5-10) and they were all nicely zero'd.
Today I've done a tracking test on the 3-15 PST, it is tracking more or less perfectly for the 14Mil of elevation I have available, with no noticable shift in windage.
It's odd that it has permanently shifted to the right after no obvious impacts or abuse, it's holding zero (well it's new zero) and is tracking properly.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before?
Should I keep using it and see what happens?

I probably need to send it to Vortex as I have now lost faith in it, and wont want to risk using it at a match again.
 
For me, it's Vortex. The best rifle scope company ever made. I even ask the customer service for extra return shipping label for my next minute of barn build and the staff is so friendly and more than willing to oblige.

One time I asked for a shipping label because my elevation turret unscrewed itself and they gave me three. I said, "Wow, three for free!" and the nice friendly Vortex CS worker laughed and said, "I'm going to call you 3-for-free!".

Now the Vortex staff greets me with "hey it's 3-for-free!" and ALWAYS give me three return labels. It's such a fun and cool atmosphere at my local Vortex repair center, I go there at least 3 times per year for their ring torquing seminar, 1-2 times per seasons to straighten the reticle or remove debris inside the glass, and maybe once a year when I'm in a rush to buy new chinesium glass but want a great tactical scope that is affordable, fast, and can match my daily shooting needs.

I even use the free sunshade, it's fantastic! What a great optical company.
 
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I had a weaver tactical that fell over with the rifle onto concrete. It shifted zero and the clicks ended up between the hashmarks. It stayed like that for about a year, then it was knocked off my cleaning bench by my cat, it shifted the clicks back to the hash marks and I had to re-zero. If it happens again, maybe just slam it on the ground and try it.
 
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Send it in and have them take a look at it.

I think it’s a little funny when guys try and rag on Vortex stuff for breaking when every other scope-maker makes stuff that breaks too.

The main difference is that Vortex is great about warranty stuff when most others are not.

With Vortex’s Razor line I’ve heard of them overnighting replacement/loaner scopes to guys so they could still hit matches that were only days away… while with some of the more “Alpha-tier” makers’ their warranty/contingency is “if you needed another scope fast, you should’ve stopped being poor and bought a back-up”. 😝
 
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beetroot said:
So I recenetly coined the term "Leupolded" which is basically Leupolds ability to get a good idea for a new scope and screw it up with dumb reticle options and other specs they get wrong. I guess that means Vortexed/Vortex'd is when your Vortex scopes shits itself at the worst possible time.

I shot a 22lr match last weekend, I'd been testing/playing around with my scopes and decided to use my 3-15 PST for this particular match.
The first 4 of 8 stages went well and I was happy with my scores but the next 3 went to shit with a lot of misses that I was putting down to wind I wasn't seeing, or just sucking. The final stage 8 of 8 though was prone with zero wind and here I discovered I was hitting 0.8 - 1.0Mil right.

I got home checked everything over on my rifle and gave the barrel a clean.
Checking the scope on paper I was still hitting 1ish Mil right but the elevation was perfect (it's been pretty windy here (right to left) so not sure the exact value).
Because I'd been testing scopes the week before the match I had 4 other scopes all zeroed for this rifle, so I checked 3 of the scopes out (a LRHS, PM2, PST 2.5-10) and they were all nicely zero'd.
Today I've done a tracking test on the 3-15 PST, it is tracking more or less perfectly for the 14Mil of elevation I have available, with no noticable shift in windage.
It's odd that it has permanently shifted to the right after no obvious impacts or abuse, it's holding zero (well it's new zero) and is tracking properly.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before?
Should I keep using it and see what happens?

I probably need to send it to Vortex as I have now lost faith in it, and wont want to risk using it at a match again.
Click to expand...
When you did a tracking test, did you do a box test as well to check the tracking in windage?
 
Imagine that, a shitty phillipino scope having issues. It's no surprise that their Chinese and Phillipino scopes are garbage, just like everything else that's OEM'd there. Stick with Japanese, European, or NA manufactured optics if you want better results.
 
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redneckbmxer24 said:
Imagine that, a shitty phillipino scope having issues. It's no surprise that their Chinese and Phillipino scopes are garbage, just like everything else that's OEM'd there. Stick with Japanese, European, or NA manufactured optics if you want better results.
Click to expand...
We actually agree on something. 😂
 
FuhQ said:
We actually agree on something. 😂
Click to expand...
Wait a minute!!
Aren’t you pushing the Burris xtr2 right now? You realize it’s very possible the xtr2 is probably oem’d in the same factory as the vortex in the Philippines? One can look at the turret knurling and finish and come to the conclusion without really digging too deep into it.
What about all your Arkens?
 
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Gohring65 said:
Wait a minute!!
Aren’t you pushing the Burris xtr2 right now? You realize it’s very possible the xtr2 is probably oem in the same factory as the vortex in the Philippines? One can look at the turret knurling and finish and come to the conclusion without really digging too deep into it.
What about all your Arkens?
Click to expand...

Bingo.
 
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I’ve got a couple of Vortex Razors on my target guns and an S&B Stratos on my hunting rifle. Guess which brand failed me within three days of usage? Give you a clue - the scope was made in Germany.

The windage turret was free floating independently from the scope body. S&B were not even remotely helpful. I was lucky in that I bought from a decent retailer who was able to sort me out with an upgrade to a T96 Polar for a bit more cash. Thankfully I’ve never had to use the Poortex warranty, but I’ve heard nothing but good things about it.

Did I get Bender’d?
 
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Gohring65 said:
Wait a minute!!
Aren’t you pushing the Burris xtr2 right now? You realize it’s very possible the xtr2 is probably oem in the same factory as the vortex in the Philippines? One can look at the turret knurling and finish and come to the conclusion without really digging too deep into it.
What about all your Arkens?
Click to expand...
I only have 1 Arken still being used on a rifle, and it’s because I don’t use that gun very often at all.

Just because a scope looks similar doesn’t mean it is. The XTR-II is a noticeably better scope than my Arkens are. And yes, it’s made in the Philippines, but it’s without a doubt higher quality than my Philippines vortexes, and Chinese Arkens. Is what it is. I don’t make the rules. 🤷🏼

What about the Arkens you bought, too?
 
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FuhQ said:
I only have 1 Arken still being used on a rifle, and it’s because I don’t use that gun very often at all.

Just because a scope looks similar doesn’t mean it is. The XTR-II is a noticeably better scope than my Arkens are. And yes, it’s made in the Philippines, but it’s without a doubt higher quality than my Philippines vortexes, and Chinese Arkens. Is what it is. I don’t make the rules. 🤷🏼

What about the Arkens you bought, too?
Click to expand...
I’m not the one being hypocritical. I sold all my arkens but still own several Chinese scopes. I would almost bet 100$ they’re made in the same factory, along with the old Nikon x and fxs. I have my suspicions on which company is oem-ing them, and believe it might have originated in Japan making some very reliable scopes. But that’s pure speculation at this point, I’m just making a semi educated guess based on years of messing around with scopes. That’s not the point though.
I think you’re trying way to hard to fit in and don’t even realize what you said even a couple months ago. Maybe you should re-read redneckbmxers24 post very carefully. I don’t mind engaging with you on these forums and never single you out, but being a hypocrite is not a winning strategy on this forum, nobody forgets and it’s archived to remind them.
 
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st1650 said:
For me, it's Vortex. The best rifle scope company ever made. I even ask the customer service for extra return shipping label for my next minute of barn build and the staff is so friendly and more than willing to oblige.

One time I asked for a shipping label because my elevation turret unscrewed itself and they gave me three. I said, "Wow, three for free!" and the nice friendly Vortex CS worker laughed and said, "I'm going to call you 3-for-free!".

Now the Vortex staff greets me with "hey it's 3-for-free!" and ALWAYS give me three return labels. It's such a fun and cool atmosphere at my local Vortex repair center, I go there at least 3 times per year for their ring torquing seminar, 1-2 times per seasons to straighten the reticle or remove debris inside the glass, and maybe once a year when I'm in a rush to buy new chinesium glass but want a great tactical scope that is affordable, fast, and can match my daily shooting needs.

I even use the free sunshade, it's fantastic! What a great optical company.
Click to expand...
Just curious. Is this a compliment or half compliment half sarcasm or all sarcasm? Sorry but I really can't tell. thanks!( I am not a Vortex hater,just always abit leary because of all the talk about their warranty. )
 
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Gohring65 said:
I’m not the one being hypocritical. I sold all my arkens but still own several Chinese scopes. I would almost bet 100$ they’re made in the same factory, along with the old Nikon x and fxs. I have my suspicions on which company is oem-ing them, and believe it might have originated in Japan making some very reliable scopes. But that’s pure speculation at this point, but I’m making a semi educated guess based on years of messing around with scopes. That’s not the point though.
I think you’re trying way to hard to fit in and don’t even realize what you said even a couple months ago. Maybe you should re-read redneckbmxers24 post very carefully. I don’t mind engaging with you on these forums and never single you out, but being a hypocrite is not a winning strategy on this forum, nobody forgets and it’s archived to remind them.
Click to expand...
I own a $3,100 NF ATACR F1 that has glass on par with a $1,200 Zeiss… I’m not just critical of the cheaper things. I’m critical of ALL things that are deserving of being critical, mostly by putting my money where my mouth is, and buying things to test and try. I usually post those results and opinions on here incase others might be interested or curious. I guess that makes me a hypocrite for trying things that might be a hidden gem. If you don’t like it, the ignore button is pretty easy to find.
 
redneckbmxer24 said:
Agrees that Chinese and Phillipino scopes are garbage, but also some good. You can't make this stuff up. The only reason you aren't on my ignore list is because I find comedy in your stupidity and it's enjoyable to make fun of you because you just deflect it and come back with something even dumber... every time.
Click to expand...
Fed Boot-licker…
 
Athos300 said:
I’ve got a couple of Vortex Razors on my target guns and an S&B Stratos on my hunting rifle. Guess which brand failed me within three days of usage? Give you a clue - the scope was made in Germany.

The windage turret was free floating independently from the scope body. S&B were not even remotely helpful. I was lucky in that I bought from a decent retailer who was able to sort me out with an upgrade to a T96 Polar for a bit more cash. Thankfully I’ve never had to use the Poortex warranty, but I’ve heard nothing but good things about it.

Did I get Bender’d?
Click to expand...

Every single one of my vortex scope failed but also to be fair, I did have some major tracking issues with my S&B and had to pay quite a bit for them to fix it.

That being said, all my “budget” L.O.W scopes have stood the test of time.
Cronus 4.5-29
Burris XTR ii 1-8
Bushnell lrtsi 3-12
Bushnell DMR 2i
 
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Nik H said:
When you did a tracking test, did you do a box test as well to check the tracking in windage?
Click to expand...
No not a box test as such, but I have been dialing the windage and its been repeatable.

I didn't touch the windage in the match FWIW.
 
CK1.0 said:
Send it in and have them take a look at it.

I think it’s a little funny when guys try and rag on Vortex stuff for breaking when every other scope-maker makes stuff that breaks too.

The main difference is that Vortex is great about warranty stuff when most others are not.

With Vortex’s Razor line I’ve heard of them overnighting replacement/loaner scopes to guys so they could still hit matches that were only days away… while with some of the more “Alpha-tier” makers’ their warranty/contingency is “if you needed another scope fast, you should’ve stopped being poor and bought a back-up”. 😝
Click to expand...
I'm definitely not a Vortex hater, I've had quite a few Vortex scopes and generally been happy with them.

Like I said I'll need to send it away, I was interested to hear if anyone has experience similar issues though.
 
beetroot said:
I'm definitely not a Vortex hater, I've had quite a few Vortex scopes and generally been happy with them.

Like I said I'll need to send it away, I was interested to hear if anyone has experience similar issues though.
Click to expand...

I helped a guy out at the range that was losing his mind. His pst windage turret stopped working. Sent it in, got it back, 2 boxes of ammo later he's having a breakdown.

The new scope elevation turret was broken... :ROFLMAO:
 
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chevy_man said:
I helped a guy out at the range that was losing his mind. His pst windage turret stopped working. Sent it in, got it back, 2 boxes of ammo later he's having a breakdown.

The new scope elevation turret was broken... :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
I've had this scope for about 4 years now and it's had a lot of use. Never had any issues until this happened.

Hence why wanting to know if this exact issue is one other people have encountered and can be put down to something else, or if I have indeed just been Vortex'd.
 
Athos300 said:
I’ve got a couple of Vortex Razors on my target guns and an S&B Stratos on my hunting rifle. Guess which brand failed me within three days of usage? Give you a clue - the scope was made in Germany.

The windage turret was free floating independently from the scope body. S&B were not even remotely helpful. I was lucky in that I bought from a decent retailer who was able to sort me out with an upgrade to a T96 Polar for a bit more cash. Thankfully I’ve never had to use the Poortex warranty, but I’ve heard nothing but good things about it.

Did I get Bender’d?
Click to expand...
We call that shit the bender....
st1650 said:
Every single one of my vortex scope failed but also to be fair, I did have some major tracking issues with my S&B and had to pay quite a bit for them to fix it.

That being said, all my “budget” L.O.W scopes have stood the test of time.
Cronus 4.5-29
Burris XTR ii 1-8
Bushnell lrtsi 3-12
Bushnell DMR 2i
Click to expand...
SB made you pay to repair it wtf?
 
Now that you can get Razor Gen II 3-18's for ~$1050 that's a tough act to follow for the price unless you want light weight. It's not the 25-30x that's so popular now, but frankly most of these sub $1000 optics with 25x+ fall off so bad past about 15-18x I never turn them up higher than that anyway.

Not that I haven't seen a Razor fail, one of my 4.5-27's had the parallax knob spin loose, granted I was able to spin it back and keep shooting but it was a fail.

If I was shooting comps seriously etc. I probably would not run a Strike Eagle/PST etc. and frankly I don't think the Strike Eagle lived up to the hype or the $750+ price, both of the ones I have my PST II's spank optically past 15x and the PST isn't exactly amazing optically. For a range gun though to save some $, they work fine. I usually take 4-5 guns to the range anyway, most of the time I don't even shoot all of them, if a scope goes down I'll just toss it in the truck and shoot another one.
 
Looks like any brand can fail you I suppose, and any brand can also provide at least one person a smooth and positive experience when it fails. I’m new to rifles and scopes in general. Hopefully I will have a better understanding on what I like and what works well after time goes on. I read a lot of good stuff about Vortex, but ultimately I did not buy one. But I would in the future if it came that time. I ended up buying a German manufactured scope, we’ll see how it holds up.
 
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redneckbmxer24 said:
Agrees that Chinese and Phillipino scopes are garbage, but also some good. You can't make this stuff up. The only reason you aren't on my ignore list is because I find comedy in your stupidity and it's enjoyable to make fun of you because you just deflect it and come back with something even dumber... every time.
Click to expand...
There is no denying the track record of the xtr-II. It has proven its self as a very reliable phllipine built budget scope.
 
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While people hate them (for good reason if they don't have things in stock), Optics Planet has a 15% coupon on top of a $1139 price tag for the MRAD 7C, that's $969 + whatever tax they charge you.

Beyond that they have a in-house camo version of the XTR II 5-25 under $600
XTR III 3-18 around $1050
XTR III 5-30 around $1250
 
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Nik H said:
When you did a tracking test, did you do a box test as well to check the tracking in windage?
Click to expand...
I managed to make a scope tracking tool/rig/thingy and ran the scope throught a bunch of tracking tests.

Everything functions as expected, tracks vertically and horizontally perfectly, not funny business where the reticle jumps around with a particular combination of wind and elevation. As far as I can tell it's perfect.

Other than putting the scope back on the rifle and seeing how it's zero'd (weather is very shite) I can't see anything wrong with it.
 
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st1650 said:
For me, it's Vortex. The best rifle scope company ever made. I even ask the customer service for extra return shipping label for my next minute of barn build and the staff is so friendly and more than willing to oblige.

One time I asked for a shipping label because my elevation turret unscrewed itself and they gave me three. I said, "Wow, three for free!" and the nice friendly Vortex CS worker laughed and said, "I'm going to call you 3-for-free!".

Now the Vortex staff greets me with "hey it's 3-for-free!" and ALWAYS give me three return labels. It's such a fun and cool atmosphere at my local Vortex repair center, I go there at least 3 times per year for their ring torquing seminar, 1-2 times per seasons to straighten the reticle or remove debris inside the glass, and maybe once a year when I'm in a rush to buy new chinesium glass but want a great tactical scope that is affordable, fast, and can match my daily shooting needs.

I even use the free sunshade, it's fantastic! What a great optical company.
Click to expand...
They definitely not the nest believe i have at least 3 of their high end scopes.
 
beetroot said:
No not a box test as such, but I have been dialing the windage and its been repeatable.

I didn't touch the windage in the match FWIW.
Click to expand...
My Dad had some interesting stories of see indirect cheating at rifle matches. Like putting a handful of windage on another person’s rifle when the bum thought no one was looking. At that time and those places, the rifles were racked in between relays.
 
Grump said:
My Dad had some interesting stories of see indirect cheating at rifle matches. Like putting a handful of windage on another person’s rifle when the bum thought no one was looking. At that time and those places, the rifles were racked in between relays.
Click to expand...
If your windage turret was still turned where it belongs, the THAT didn’t happen to you. Including re-indexing the turret during the mischief is just too unlikely. Bums are usually a bit lazy.
 
I have a leupold scope that is thirty years old that was a new model and purchased new, and by far the most expensive I had ever purchased. Both windage and vertical adjustments marked U & D. I tried to send it back to them to have the labels on the windage changed to L&R. They wouldn't agree to replace the markings, questioned accusingly whether I had changed the labels with another scope.
Skip to present probably 25 scopes later, it is still marked U&D on the L&R adjustment and it is the first and last one I have ever owned.
I currently own 6 Vortexes and have sold/traded several others. I have had several warranty claims, that have always been promptly addressed without question and only one was because of factory defects. All others were damaged due to hard/stupid use.
Do I truly need to know if the fly is blue-tailed or green-tailed at 300 yds? I don't think so
 
beetroot said:
I managed to make a scope tracking tool/rig/thingy and ran the scope throught a bunch of tracking tests.

Everything functions as expected, tracks vertically and horizontally perfectly, not funny business where the reticle jumps around with a particular combination of wind and elevation. As far as I can tell it's perfect.

Other than putting the scope back on the rifle and seeing how it's zero'd (weather is very shite) I can't see anything wrong with it.
Click to expand...
I would give that a shot for sure...if it still exhibits the behavior, then send it in
 
Gohring65 said:
Wait a minute!!
Aren’t you pushing the Burris xtr2 right now? You realize it’s very possible the xtr2 is probably oem’d in the same factory as the vortex in the Philippines? One can look at the turret knurling and finish and come to the conclusion without really digging too deep into it.
What about all your Arkens?
Click to expand...
I believe XTR III is also made in phillipines now, which is funny for the Burris simps to get squeamish about, since they talked about "made in the US" more than vegans tell you that they're vegan.

People here are odd about their brand loyalty. They'll buy multi-thousand dollar shit, then post about having an issue with it, and having shit customer service to boot.

Then they double down and get mad that vortex overnights people replacements, while they wait weeks for their sweetheart brand to find a warranty exclusion and tell them to eat shit.

All the while, its typed on some third world country sweatshop-built computer or phone, fully knowing that they'd never pay the price of a made in the USA one.

performative patriotism, its all the rage until your favorite brand decides that profit is more important than assembly/production origin.

For every person talking about how "made in the US" is important to them, and shitting on Bushnell for the new Match/Match Pro being made in china, they seem to continue to sell out those badboys, no matter what a small group of vocal people say in forum comments.

Also, by sheer volume alone, you're going to hear more complaints about stuff that sells 10x the amount of other brands.

Unless you know total sales volume, and actual failure rate, its a pointless circle jerk of a discussion.

Porsche, most recently, averages 200 problems per 100 car sales, Mazda averages 180 per 100. Mazda sold over 4.5x as many cars in the US last year. Guess which one you're going to hear more problems and posts about? Despite the lower problems/vehicle rate.
 
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Dobermann said:
How many rounds?
Click to expand...
I actually discovered what was wrong and never updated the thread..

My rear ring had the screws back out, not so much they were not doing anything but they were less tight than they ought to be, I'd never thought to check as part of my inital troubleshooting.
The scope has been in those rings for quite some time now, but I guess they just slowly worked loose over time.
Guess I should've used some long strength thread locker.

I ended up making a scope tracking rig thingy to test the mechanical tracking, the scope was perfect.
By loosening of the screws on the rear ring you could get the zero to wander all over the place, which explained the issues I was having.

I haven't done much shooting since that match but actually rezored the scope properly today, will see how it holds up over time.
I'm sure it'll be fine.
 
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beetroot said:
I actually discovered what was wrong and never updated the thread..

My rear ring had the screws back out, not so much they were not doing anything but they were less tight than they ought to be, I'd never thought to check as part of my inital troubleshooting.
The scope has been in those rings for quite some time now, but I guess they just slowly worked loose over time.
Guess I should've used some long strength thread locker.

I ended up making a scope tracking rig thingy to test the mechanical tracking, the scope was perfect.
By loosening of the screws on the rear ring you could get the zero to wander all over the place, which explained the issues I was having.

I haven't done much shooting since that match but actually rezored the scope properly today, will see how it holds up over time.
I'm sure it'll be fine.
Click to expand...
Good to hear.

Have you checked this out?: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/scope-mounting-to-maintain-zero.78482/
 
beetroot said:
Yeah I had seen that.
I haven't tended to use loctite in the past as I've traditionally switch things around every 5 seconds.
I'll put some loctite on it now, or atleast some witness marks that it's likely to not come out of these rings.
Click to expand...
Don’t use the same torque when the bolts are wet. You might over-tighten.
 
Dobermann said:
Here you go ... though you may not like the source ;): https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...aid-about-my-rifle.326323/page-2#post-3262169
Click to expand...
That is another opinion on a forum, an its likely wrong.

Torque/tension relationship - the forgotten factor

lotusmarques.com lotusmarques.com

The dry solvent cleaned bolt would never achieve the clamp load for which it was designed, irrespective of the amount of torque applied, while the bolt lubricated with anti-seize compound (which is not an uncommon practice with the mining industry and heavy engineering) is stretched well into its elastic limit and is a disaster waiting to happen.

The application of the modern anaerobic thread-locking compound Loctite 243 substantially reduces the torque tension scatter envelope over identical “”as received” lightly oiled fasteners.

This isn't the thread where I told people torque values are for lubricated fasteners, but torque value are for lubricated fasteners. People who degrease their fasteners and assemble them dry are doing it wrong.
 
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