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JH Hall Rifle Build.... It's vintage... if not totally snipery...

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Full Member
Minuteman
So a bunch of years ago, I bought a neat miniature gun... a 1/3rd scale replica of the Martin Aiken rifle that was presented to him and his boy soldiers after the Battle of Plattsburg. It's a Hall Rifle, which was America's first Breechloader. Also the first produced with gauge blocks and totally interchangeable parts.

hall 3.jpg


Above is my miniature. And below is the stock plate on the miniature. This is the replica of the gun in the Battle Museum at Plattsburgh, NY.

hall 4.jpg


For those not familiar with the story, a wonderful little book called "Nine Days a Soldier" tells the story of the boys who helped stop the British at Plattsburgh during the War of 1812. Baltimore and the burning of the White House were the distraction. The British sent 14,000 troops against 1000 militia at Plattsburgh with the intent of taking Lake Champlain and cleaving New England off of the United States to put everything from Montreal to New York City back under British Control.

They lost. A handful of militia, for lack of a better term, tore them to shreds in the woods of upstate New York. About 1200 Vermont militia rowed across the lake to back up the New Yorkers. Outnumbered 5 to 1, the Americans sent the British packing once and for all. A group of schoolboys, too young to enlist, formed a volunteer militia and, over 9 days, distinguished themselves to such a degree that the Commanding United States general promised to give them rifles as rewards for their heroism. It took almost 20 years go get Congress to cough up the rifles. But they were duly awarded. To each boy (now man) with a plaque attached.

I decided I need to make a full-size replica. The Rifle Shoppe makes a castings kit. So... I ordered that. Two years later, it finally arrived. And I started building the rifle a few weeks ago.

hall breech 2.jpg


Here is the Breech casting. I'll need to get it engraved again. But I have the info.

hall rifle 4.jpg

^^^ This is a drawing of a Hall Conversion (caplock). I am building the original flintlock. But this shows a bit about how the mechanism works.

hall rifle 2.jpg


Here is a good picture of an original. I don't have a heck of a lot to go on.... prints are not available and there is only one set of gauge blocks that survives at Harpers Ferry Arsenal. And they won't loan them to me. Sadly.

hall 6.jpg


Here's another picture of the mechanism.

hall latest.jpg


Here's my metalwork, finally 'almost' closing on its own. I just silver soldered in the breech stop. And will finish lapping and filing the breech mechanism tomorrow.

These actually have somewhat of a 'snipery' history as these were issued to 'elite' units. Foragers. Rangers. Marksmen, etc. I think about 20,000 were made starting about 1819. And some (caplocks) were in use up to the Civil War. A lot in the Mexican War still in flintlock form. They are neat rifles and reflect how advanced the US Army really was in the early 1800's when the American System of Manufacturing was taking off.

Apparently some British officers who visited the Springfield Armory in the 1830's and saw American Manufacturing techniques were utterly terrified by the efficiency and capability. They went back to London and made such an impression that the British Government ordered a complete set of machine tools from... the USA.

Anyway, I'll post more as the progress continues. It's going to be a fun one to finish up! Though I won't do the stocking. I can't do compound curves to save my life.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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Love your projects. I recently attacked a project of a conversion based solely on a very few pictures on the internet, to reverse engineer something off of pics not know scale or dimensions is …………..fun? Challenging for sure, can’t wait to see the finished product
 
Love your projects. I recently attacked a project of a conversion based solely on a very few pictures on the internet, to reverse engineer something off of pics not know scale or dimensions is …………..fun? Challenging for sure, can’t wait to see the finished product
That is seriously high praise, sir! I’ve followed that project of yours and it is impressive to say the least! Wish I could be more help on it!

Sirhr
 
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So after a morning of filing, fitting, stoning and sanding.... everything works as it should. Got the engraving surfaces ready for engraving. Need to do final polish/filing on the action bolsters/sides. But that's for another day.

BF47494E-1697-45AC-B261-064F968BF164.jpeg


Action open. Now pops open and drops closed fine. It has a spring on it, so when finished, it will spring open and lock closed. going to need some shimming at the back of the action. But that's not going to be hard. Ended up surface grinding the sides of the actual lock mechanism. They were just too out of alignment. That was interesting... since my magnetic chuck could not grab on to it.
10C52E2A-01BA-4587-89B0-8F84A0E22D7C.jpeg


From the back side. Sight dovetailed in nicely. Note it's offset as the hammer is in the center.
383C2533-E127-4383-84E8-DAFDC4756DB5.jpeg


My one concession (so far) to modern methods. The bolt stop is dovetailed, but the steel castings are way too weak for the dovetail to really work well. So after tapping it in the dovetail, I silver soldered it in place. A little filing and hard to tell. Plus it is underneath and will never be seen. But I intend to shoot this, so it has to be rugge.
3A7B436A-C403-4762-8194-ECB5F276C3D8.jpeg



More to follow.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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These are from a few days ago.

Fitting the recoil lugs. Probably cheating to use a surface grinder…

View attachment 7893795View attachment 7893796View attachment 7893797
Not cheating. Common sense 🙂. Holland & Holland got a lead on other gunmakers by building brand new premises in the late 19th century and fitting out the workshops with the best machine tools they could obtain. They stayed there until early this century and reportedly only took one old machine with them to the new location, where they installed a number of CNC machines.
 
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This video has been gold as the casting kit came with zero in the way of instructions or blueprints or plans.



Thank you FW!!! Screen shots off this have been amazing. Same with my Puckle Gun.

Sirhr

$25 a piece.. and to think the amount of work that went into just the barrel alone.. inflation is truly a spectacle to behold.
 
That is AWESOME! I don't know how I missed this. But; I'm glad you updated it. It looks wonderful
 
Apparently I keep returning to this thread. I definitely go down the rabbit hole with the "similar threads" que...


Any updates?

I've got some old guns showing up and this gets me motivated.
 
So more than a year after starting... I got the Hall back from Ed Parry, my riflesmith. I did the metalwork (Except the bands) and he did the woodwork and final assembly. Most of the delay was not waiting for Ed. He is really fast when he gets working. Mainly was waiting for the engraving on the action to come back. Which it did in June. And the whole thing was done a few weeks later. It came out amazing! It's "In the White" though I may dismantle it and brown it. I don't think these were built and shipped unfinished. Even the presentation versions.

The mechanism works like a charm!! I even found an original bayonet for it (Though it was cut down a few inches... )

Action open. The ball and powder are poured into the 'raised' section. Which is snapped closed. There is a forcing cone on the barrel and a taper in the action. Soldiers issued these would often create 'makeshift' pistol grips for the action as it can be easily removed from the rifle and fired like a Deringer. I might have to make one!

hall a.jpeg


The "Kit" from The Rifle Shoppe had very rough castings. So after fettling, I sent off to a friend to engrave/deepen the markings. And he hit it out of the park. Former treasury banknote engraver, now specializes in car instruments and bezels. Not the 'cheeks' that center the action. Slip fit. Barely get a .001" feeler in there. That took the most time in fitting the action together.


hall b.jpeg



Action closed with the hammer in half-cock. Note it is in the center of the gun, no side pan. The 'front trigger' is the release mechanism for the action. Pull on it and it pops up! Makes a nice "Thwack" sound when it pops open. Sounds solid!!
hall c.jpeg


The whole gun! All together! Just waiting for the plaque to show up by mail so I can attach it. It's all pre-shaped and formed. All I have to do is lay it on the stock and tack it on. And make some German Silver Nails, of course. Of course!
hall d.jpeg


An amazing project! A few folks have built these. But noone has yet done a replica of one of the presentation guns! Oh and, yes, we have some 'telltales' on this to make sure noone can ever pass it off as a real presentation piece.

Can't wait to shoot it. Yes, there will be a range report!! Hopefully this fall after travel and commitments!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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And it was like Christmas in July in August... because Ed had finished several projects, some of which we have been working on for years! All came together to pick up Sunday.

So there is this... which started as a really awful "India-Made" .700 caliber blunderbuss. I mean awful! But we stripped it down and Ed cleaned up a lot of stuff. Fixed the lock. Re-shaped and re-stained the stock and really cleaned up the inletting. It's now much more period looking.

buss 1.jpeg


Ersatz Tower Lock as seen on Brown Bess. Brass Barrel (I proofed it with a fuse, so it's not going to blow up. These are sold by a Canadian Company as 'shooters' for about $600. They are worth every penny. They just need a bit of... clean-up to look the part of 18th Century scatter-busses! Mailorder right to your door in case you can't live without one!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
And the piece de la Resistance... This one is all on Ed. He got the kit and I was going to do the metal on it, but he wanted to try it because he has some other folks who want them. Another RIfle Shoppe Kit. (More on them later.)

This is the Ferguson... one of the first mass-produced (by the British) sniper rifles. Ferguson was a Scottish officer, a Major , who fought in the British Army during the American Revolutionary War. He was the officer who had Washington in his sights early in the Revolutionary War, maybe at Brandywine, but decided not to fire as it was 'ungentlemanly.' Morgans men had no such qualms about targeting officers! He would lead riflemen and loyalists and was heavily involved in fighting in the Carolinas.


Ian McCollum did a great show on the Ferguson.



Breech open. You would drop ball in and it would fall into the barrel. About a .629 ball. And then you would push in a powder charge and close the screw. It was a breechloader that very rapidly reloaded! 6 shots a minute!! Which was amazing in the 1776 timeframe.

ferg 1.jpeg


Breech open from the side. You turn the trigger guard a couple of times and the breech opens on a screw. It's quite tight, so I imagine you get a few shots off before you have to clean it. Then again, the trigger guard is a pretty good lever. So maybe it's not an issue.

ferg 2.jpeg


Breech closed. The 'star' pattern is the ends of the threads.

ferg 3.jpeg


Note, again, the Tower Lock. Pretty standard item on a British gun of the period. Mass produced and, while not interchangeable, they were rugged, dependable and the gunsmiths that travelled with the troops could keep them easily-maintained in the field. The rest of the gun, however, was a lot more complicated!

ferg 4.jpeg


The whole 'package' looks pretty much like a Brown Bess until you see the handle on the trigger guard tang. Note it has a ramrod... because it could also be muzzle-loaded. In a pinch.
ferg 5.jpeg


I waited about three years for The Rifle Shoppe to finish parts for these kits. And I love their stuff and their parts. But they are appallingly bad at shipping, following-through on commitments and communications. I had kits sitting on their shelf, paid for, for 2 years... waiting for a spring. Or in one case... "Oh, we lost your contact info. Your kit has been on our shipping shelf for 18 months." (I'd sent about 6 e-mails in that timeframe..) So if you order one of their kits... keep on them! And don't expect to get one in less than a year. I also heard that they are no longer shipping assembled locks. So you will have to some good metalworking. Like I said, Ed wanted to do this one. But I guarantee there was a lot of filing and lapping on this.

But this is one of the first true military issued 'sniper' rifles. A specialists weapon for sure! But so cool!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Last, this is my first Kibler Kit. They are totally gamechanging kits. Ed also did this assembly for me, but I am going to do one myself. I had Ed do it because I wanted to have some decoration done (engraved plate) that I am not really capable of doing. Ed can do the engraving and carving. But I am going to do one next myself.

Someone in Vintage was asking about Kibler Kits... well here is the 'finished' one. This is my Morgans Rifleman gun... And I have a Horn and accoutrements for this one.

The action is fire blued. Barrel is browned. It's done as a 'working' rifle and the sort of thing that would have shown up in the hands of one of Morgans men. With decoration added showing his 'Revolutionary Spirit' and recording the owners' battles. These were the main engagements in which Morgan's men participated.

kib 1.jpeg


One of the amazing thing about the Kibler kits (I think this called a "Woodsrunner" is that the inletting and wood/metal work are so brilliantly done by CNC machine that 'assembling' it is like putting together a rifle you just took apart. Everything fits. I am going to do one myself soon. My issue is that I can't do the stock work well. I'm a machinist, not a 'compound curves' artist like Ed! But I feel like I can have fun decorating a Kibler and that I can handle the inlays, wire work and some fun stuff to make it a first kit I really do all myself. Did I mention Kibler is game-changing as a kit builder?

kib 2.jpeg


The whole rifle. Swamped barrel. Brass furniture. Kibler's locks are also running on bearings and bushings. Their lock time is incredibly fast! So these are fantastic hunting flintlocks.

kib 3.jpeg


And the horn... Done by Tim "Griz" Sanner, who is a master horner. This is the first one I have ordered from him and kept for myself. I gave him some sketches and images and talked about a design, but he really knows how to lay things out and do the aritstic part. Again, the idea is a horn that was decorated and 'updated' in the field. Join or Die was actually more of a French-Indian wars saying... as the Revolutionary War progressed, the 'snake' had come together into the famous Gadsden Flag image. But early in the war, this image, based on a Ben Franklin woodcut, would have been a popular sentiment -- join against the Brits. This was never a flag, by the way. But was used on pamphlets and in other "Patriot" materials.

kib 4.jpg



The 'map' shows the coast of the US during the Revolutionary War period and shows the locations of Morgans' Riflemen engagemnets. From Quebec to Yorktown... Tim sketched in little 'scribblings' like soldiers and houses and things representing battles. That's what makes him such an artist at this sort of thing!
kib 5.jpg


The top of the Map and off the side is an image of one of the prison ships that were infamous in the Revolution. I put it there because the stories of the abuse and conditions on these ships was appalling. A virtual death sentence for many. It is also concievable that the 'owner' had a friend or relative on the ships. The Quebec expedition was a mess and many Riflemen were captured. So we decided to include the prison ship as a symbol of British cruelty... and a motivation to a young rifleman to win.
kib 6.jpg



Not a bad weekend when 4 projects (spanning more than 4 years of work by Ed and I) comes together all at once! It was truly Christmas in Summer!

Now to get out and shoot them!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
So more than a year after starting... I got the Hall back from Ed Parry, my riflesmith. I did the metalwork (Except the bands) and he did the woodwork and final assembly. Most of the delay was not waiting for Ed. He is really fast when he gets working. Mainly was waiting for the engraving on the action to come back. Which it did in June. And the whole thing was done a few weeks later. It came out amazing! It's "In the White" though I may dismantle it and brown it. I don't think these were built and shipped unfinished. Even the presentation versions.

The mechanism works like a charm!! I even found an original bayonet for it (Though it was cut down a few inches... )

Action open. The ball and powder are poured into the 'raised' section. Which is snapped closed. There is a forcing cone on the barrel and a taper in the action. Soldiers issued these would often create 'makeshift' pistol grips for the action as it can be easily removed from the rifle and fired like a Deringer. I might have to make one!

View attachment 8209560

The "Kit" from The Rifle Shoppe had very rough castings. So after fettling, I sent off to a friend to engrave/deepen the markings. And he hit it out of the park. Former treasury banknote engraver, now specializes in car instruments and bezels. Not the 'cheeks' that center the action. Slip fit. Barely get a .001" feeler in there. That took the most time in fitting the action together.


View attachment 8209561


Action closed with the hammer in half-cock. Note it is in the center of the gun, no side pan. The 'front trigger' is the release mechanism for the action. Pull on it and it pops up! Makes a nice "Thwack" sound when it pops open. Sounds solid!!
View attachment 8209562

The whole gun! All together! Just waiting for the plaque to show up by mail so I can attach it. It's all pre-shaped and formed. All I have to do is lay it on the stock and tack it on. And make some German Silver Nails, of course. Of course!
View attachment 8209563

An amazing project! A few folks have built these. But noone has yet done a replica of one of the presentation guns! Oh and, yes, we have some 'telltales' on this to make sure noone can ever pass it off as a real presentation piece.

Can't wait to shoot it. Yes, there will be a range report!! Hopefully this fall after travel and commitments!

Cheers,

Sirhr
Are you going to dress up as a US dragoon, like Phil Spangenberger did for his Hall rifle article, many moons ago😁?
 
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And the piece de la Resistance... This one is all on Ed. He got the kit and I was going to do the metal on it, but he wanted to try it because he has some other folks who want them. Another RIfle Shoppe Kit. (More on them later.)

This is the Ferguson... one of the first mass-produced (by the British) sniper rifles. Ferguson was a Scottish officer, a Major , who fought in the British Army during the American Revolutionary War. He was the officer who had Washington in his sights early in the Revolutionary War, maybe at Brandywine, but decided not to fire as it was 'ungentlemanly.' Morgans men had no such qualms about targeting officers! He would lead riflemen and loyalists and was heavily involved in fighting in the Carolinas.


Ian McCollum did a great show on the Ferguson.



Breech open. You would drop ball in and it would fall into the barrel. About a .629 ball. And then you would push in a powder charge and close the screw. It was a breechloader that very rapidly reloaded! 6 shots a minute!! Which was amazing in the 1776 timeframe.

View attachment 8209573

Breech open from the side. You turn the trigger guard a couple of times and the breech opens on a screw. It's quite tight, so I imagine you get a few shots off before you have to clean it. Then again, the trigger guard is a pretty good lever. So maybe it's not an issue.

View attachment 8209574

Breech closed. The 'star' pattern is the ends of the threads.

View attachment 8209575

Note, again, the Tower Lock. Pretty standard item on a British gun of the period. Mass produced and, while not interchangeable, they were rugged, dependable and the gunsmiths that travelled with the troops could keep them easily-maintained in the field. The rest of the gun, however, was a lot more complicated!

View attachment 8209576

The whole 'package' looks pretty much like a Brown Bess until you see the handle on the trigger guard tang. Note it has a ramrod... because it could also be muzzle-loaded. In a pinch.
View attachment 8209577

I waited about three years for The Rifle Shoppe to finish parts for these kits. And I love their stuff and their parts. But they are appallingly bad at shipping, following-through on commitments and communications. I had kits sitting on their shelf, paid for, for 2 years... waiting for a spring. Or in one case... "Oh, we lost your contact info. Your kit has been on our shipping shelf for 18 months." (I'd sent about 6 e-mails in that timeframe..) So if you order one of their kits... keep on them! And don't expect to get one in less than a year. I also heard that they are no longer shipping assembled locks. So you will have to some good metalworking. Like I said, Ed wanted to do this one. But I guarantee there was a lot of filing and lapping on this.

But this is one of the first true military issued 'sniper' rifles. A specialists weapon for sure! But so cool!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Absolutely awesome contributions as always @sirhrmechanic (y)

Any recommendations for a good book or documentary on Morgan's Riflemen? Love reading and hearing stories about those gentlemen, and Francis Marion as well...
 
Absolutely awesome contributions as always @sirhrmechanic (y)

Any recommendations for a good book or documentary on Morgan's Riflemen? Love reading and hearing stories about those gentlemen, and Francis Marion as well...

Kind of a “bad” book is “The Riflemen” by Oliver North (yes, him). Pulpy and preachy. But some good background. And LaCrosse’s book on Morgan’s rifleman early in the Revolution through 1783 is good.

And our own Gary Yee’s “sharpshooters through 1900 is great.

I don’t have anything on Marion except a kids book called The Swamp Fox. Fun read, but not a serious history.
 
Are you going to dress up as a US dragoon, like Phil Spangenberger did for his Hall rifle article, many moons ago😁?

No, but I would like to get a kit together for the 250th and do Lexington and Concord, Bennington and Saratoga.

Whole different rifle and kit. But would be fun to do some of that living history.