Jumping on the 4350 bandwagon for .30-06... realistic velocities?

[ChrisBCS]

Hi there. So I have been doing a lot of reading around, and IMR 4064 is my old faithful, local availability has allowed me to finally get my hands on H4350. I also have a box of 175 SMK to play around with.

Now, from what I've been reading, people have been getting absurd velocities using 175 and 180 gr bullets (2800-2900 fps plus) with charges that are much closer to the starting load (55 gr) than the max load (59 gr)! The mfr max load has a listed velocity of only 2842 fps, with the min being listed by the mfr as 2661 fps.

Am I missing something here? I'm really excited to play with this powder with the '06 case capacity, based on what I've been reading, but I don't have a chrono...

 

[BobinNC]

I'm not going to tell you to just load up the old 30-06, because it is very dependent on what rifle your shooting. But generally, modern rifles chambered for 30-06 can take a bit more pressure than the max's listed by SAMMI and most powder and bullet data are limited to the SAMMI 60k PSI MAX.

For example on the same brass the 270 Win allows 65K PSI, and 25-06 63K PSI. So higher velocities are possible, with judicious loading up to, and gingerly above max, which unfortunately almost requires the use of a Chronograph so you can see the increases your really getting or not.

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

 

[former naval person]

Don't load to max with 435 in the M1. You'll be buying lots of operating rods. M1 pressure cure is best suited for 4064 and 4895.

 

[ChrisBCS]

This isn't for an M1. This is strictly a load to be built for a Rem 700.

Bob,

My post was more asking about the velocity discrepancies I see using loads well within the low end of the powder mfg.'s recommendation. I have seen reports noting .30-06/175 gr SMK with 56.0 gr of 4350 being chrono'd at 2950 fps. That's a higher muzzle velocity than the specs of the mfg.'s max load of 59.0 gr @ 2842 fps.

 

[GhostFace]

I think it will come down to custom barrel and length. If you have a short off the self barrel you may not get the high velocities. I would not be too worried about getting the highest velocity that you can get. Sure I understad wanting to use the '06 to its potential and get better performance than the .308. You will be ahead of the .308 with that powder anyway. I would use a OCW method to find the best load using those components. With that I use H4350 and it's a great accurate powder. I use 55.6 grains in a Hornady match case topped of with a 190 SMK/CC and it is truly one ragged hole accurate at 100 yardsl and submoa further out.The velocity is lower (2735 FPS) than what i was getting with RL22 (2800 FPS) with a 22.5 Rock barrel.But the accuracy is worth the trade off IMHO. If you can find this powder stock up on it, I just found a honey hole and bought another 6 pounds a couple of days ago. I am going back to get the rest in an hour or so, I am sitting pretty good now.on this powder. Don't get too hung up on speed...

 

[ChrisBCS]

Thanks Ghost. I know what they say, "Speed is fine, accuracy is final."

 

[steve123]

Chris, all barrels are different, H-4350 varies in lot # by as much as 5%, different brand brass has varying internal volumes, all of which affect velocity, so the reloading manuals are giving pressure tested velocities with what barrels, primers, powders, brass, bullets, etc they have on hand to test. They sure as heck are going to lean towards the safe side when they publish data. There could be 100 fps difference in velocity between two 30-06 rifles using the same components with the same length barrel. This doesn't even include a barrel on the same gun when virgin or broke in for a couple hundred rounds or spent, a worn barrel produces slower velocities than it did when broke in. Included in the confusion is prescribed tolerance in bore, groove or twist rate.

By watching signs on the brass you can determine a ballpark max load for what you have on hand. Flat primers, smoked area around primer, primer flow, ejector smear, measuring the extractor groove and feeling for a abnormal sticking when opening the bolt on a fired case, all can be signs of higher pressure. Most rifles seem to shoot best at just below max (observing said signs), but of course in a node.

Then there is brass life and barrel/throat life to consider. I had a fantastic load made up for my AR that I used for the life of some Winchester brass - all 3 firings= cough. I had a decision to make, I chose to buy Lapua brass and pick a load that ended up being slower but as accurate. Oh well, can't have your cake and eat it too sometimes.

Nowadays they have these thingy's called target turrets... and funny looking reticles that can be used for accurate holdovers and holdoffs. With these fancy thingamajigs and correct data, it don't matter what velocity the bullet is going. Like I mentioned before, 100 fps here and there isn't gonna make a huge difference at distance.