Alright, I just got a KAC SR15 stripped lower. Regular type without ambi cutout and flush cups. Id like to use mostly KAC parts and keep it all KAC but can someone explain what the different types of Geissele triggers there is?? And are they worth it?
- Thread starter mcm308
- Start date
Yes they are worth it, but get 'em on sale. Get all this shit on sale if you can and check out the PX on here.
They make several, and each one has very different attributes, feel and application.
KAC makes a very nice 2 stage --for $330. IMO it's the most robust 2 stage trigger you can get for an AR, period. And it feels good, it feels a lot like a Geissele SSA.
Geissele:
There's the 3gun (fast, short pull/reset, even faster because second stage disconnector "bumps" the hammer, speeding things up) the SSP single stage (like the 3gun but without that "bump") SSA two stage, SSA-E (enhanced) 2 stage (probably the most popular) SSF (full auto version, 2 stage semi, single stage full auto). Most all of them come with either a flat bow, curved bow or M4 bow (also curved) and one curved one with 3 raised lines down the bow (tricon?). I think that's all of the AR triggers, except...
The Hi-Speed is sorta in a class by itself, it's the one they make that's adjustable. This one is my favorite, it's costly so get it on sale. I took the KAC factory trigger out of an SR25 and put that in a lower like yours and put a Hi-Speed in the SR25. It's NICE. I put another in a tack driving Grendel. But the non-adj. SSA-E is almost as good and doesn't have set screws making it a better choice for a field rifle. However, gotta admit, never had a problem with the set screws, so if you want the BEST one, the Hi-Speed is it. And when I say "adjustable" I mean FULLY adjustable 1 and 2 stage plus different weight springs.
Then there are the two they contract for Brownells, a two stage and a single stage type "rapid fire" trigger. On sale they're a really good deal, basically regular Geissele triggers but without the individual QC and they use a different spring method to retain the pins. I put the rapid fires in a couple rack rifles as an upgrade to GI triggers and I've heard the two stage triggers are as good as an SSA?
You'll need a complete KAC upper if you want all KAC parts. If you build it I'd recommend JP Ent. FMOS BCG (plus small parts for the lower) MUR1 upper, Noveske barrel for SBR or CHFchrome or Krieger for an accurate cut rifle barrel. Pinned Geissele gas block, URX4 FF handguard and 620 loctite to bed the barrel to the upper. URX4 is one piece, don't discount it, they're badass. This has been a winning combination and while people may like how the URX2-3 or match rail looks, the 4 is a much more solid unit and it's lighter. I've used or have most all of 'em. Oh, and KAC keymod shit costs less than KAC mlok shit, almost half as much, so heads up there. Those lowers also might not fit some uppers but I know they fit Noveske, LMT, Colt and VLTOR MUR1, and if you have one you know fits you can add it to that list, but I've seen some with bad gaps or just a flat out shit fit. Good luck.
They make several, and each one has very different attributes, feel and application.
KAC makes a very nice 2 stage --for $330. IMO it's the most robust 2 stage trigger you can get for an AR, period. And it feels good, it feels a lot like a Geissele SSA.
Geissele:
There's the 3gun (fast, short pull/reset, even faster because second stage disconnector "bumps" the hammer, speeding things up) the SSP single stage (like the 3gun but without that "bump") SSA two stage, SSA-E (enhanced) 2 stage (probably the most popular) SSF (full auto version, 2 stage semi, single stage full auto). Most all of them come with either a flat bow, curved bow or M4 bow (also curved) and one curved one with 3 raised lines down the bow (tricon?). I think that's all of the AR triggers, except...
The Hi-Speed is sorta in a class by itself, it's the one they make that's adjustable. This one is my favorite, it's costly so get it on sale. I took the KAC factory trigger out of an SR25 and put that in a lower like yours and put a Hi-Speed in the SR25. It's NICE. I put another in a tack driving Grendel. But the non-adj. SSA-E is almost as good and doesn't have set screws making it a better choice for a field rifle. However, gotta admit, never had a problem with the set screws, so if you want the BEST one, the Hi-Speed is it. And when I say "adjustable" I mean FULLY adjustable 1 and 2 stage plus different weight springs.
Then there are the two they contract for Brownells, a two stage and a single stage type "rapid fire" trigger. On sale they're a really good deal, basically regular Geissele triggers but without the individual QC and they use a different spring method to retain the pins. I put the rapid fires in a couple rack rifles as an upgrade to GI triggers and I've heard the two stage triggers are as good as an SSA?
You'll need a complete KAC upper if you want all KAC parts. If you build it I'd recommend JP Ent. FMOS BCG (plus small parts for the lower) MUR1 upper, Noveske barrel for SBR or CHFchrome or Krieger for an accurate cut rifle barrel. Pinned Geissele gas block, URX4 FF handguard and 620 loctite to bed the barrel to the upper. URX4 is one piece, don't discount it, they're badass. This has been a winning combination and while people may like how the URX2-3 or match rail looks, the 4 is a much more solid unit and it's lighter. I've used or have most all of 'em. Oh, and KAC keymod shit costs less than KAC mlok shit, almost half as much, so heads up there. Those lowers also might not fit some uppers but I know they fit Noveske, LMT, Colt and VLTOR MUR1, and if you have one you know fits you can add it to that list, but I've seen some with bad gaps or just a flat out shit fit. Good luck.
Thanks for all that! Definitely helps. As far as the upper, going to try for all KAC again. I am not a real fan of the newer type rails. I may try to do something like the old LPR I believe it was with the Mk12 style FF rail and a heavy Krieger barrel. I do like the URX II but that requires the special barrel nut wrench. I like the older vintage stuff.
I like the URX4. Especially that it comes with install wrench!
The Geiselle SSA or SSA-E are the closest thing that Geiselle has to a KAC trigger, IMO.
For considerably less money, you also might want to look at a Larue.
All the above are 2-stage triggers as are the KAC OEM trigger, both the standard & the "match" version that they use in the LPR version of the SR-15's.
MM
You can find take off KAC 2 stages on gun broker sometimes. If you want to keep it KAC, go with that.
There are 3 other triggers I would recommend, depending on price.
Hi Speed DMR - $300 and the best trigger on the market. It is proven beyond reproach and a very slightly better trigger than the KAC 2 Stage.
G2S - Its basically a SSA that's batch tested. Same exact trigger for $125-165 depending if you get it on sale.
Larue MBT - Its only $87 and while not as good as the above, its still a good trigger , especially for its price. S7 steel and build to last a lifetime.
In my KAC guns there is no reason to change the trigger. For my SPR, DMR and precision oriented AR's, they get Hi Speed DMR's.
For everything else from pistols, to shorties to 16" duty carbines, they get a G2S or a MBT depending on what's on sale.
I have also heard good things about Wilson TTU triggers but don't have any time behind one. If you want a single stage, may be a good bet. I run 2nd stage for everything and with a good 2 stage, you can run it like a 1 for cqb.
If you want to start buying KAC parts ALA CARTE to build up a SR15 type gun, you will spend as much and still not get the benefits of the system (gas and bolt). Cheaper to buy a factory gun.
The stripped KAC lowers are just regular forged. I have 2 sitting in my safe. The KAC AMBI is the one you really want. The LMT MARS is also very nice but at a similar price ($750-800). Ambi lower + KAC 2 Stage + High quality LPK + mil RE +SOPMOD is worth the price of entry.
There are 3 other triggers I would recommend, depending on price.
Hi Speed DMR - $300 and the best trigger on the market. It is proven beyond reproach and a very slightly better trigger than the KAC 2 Stage.
G2S - Its basically a SSA that's batch tested. Same exact trigger for $125-165 depending if you get it on sale.
Larue MBT - Its only $87 and while not as good as the above, its still a good trigger , especially for its price. S7 steel and build to last a lifetime.
In my KAC guns there is no reason to change the trigger. For my SPR, DMR and precision oriented AR's, they get Hi Speed DMR's.
For everything else from pistols, to shorties to 16" duty carbines, they get a G2S or a MBT depending on what's on sale.
I have also heard good things about Wilson TTU triggers but don't have any time behind one. If you want a single stage, may be a good bet. I run 2nd stage for everything and with a good 2 stage, you can run it like a 1 for cqb.
If you want to start buying KAC parts ALA CARTE to build up a SR15 type gun, you will spend as much and still not get the benefits of the system (gas and bolt). Cheaper to buy a factory gun.
The stripped KAC lowers are just regular forged. I have 2 sitting in my safe. The KAC AMBI is the one you really want. The LMT MARS is also very nice but at a similar price ($750-800). Ambi lower + KAC 2 Stage + High quality LPK + mil RE +SOPMOD is worth the price of entry.
The Original LPR was based on the MOD 1 and used the URX 3.1
You will need a KAC URX wrench and KAC chamber rod. It's what G used to steal his reaction rod from.
KAC Barrel Extension Action Wrench - Knight's Armament
The KAC Barrel Extension Action Wrench is used to securely hold an SR-15 or SR-25 upper receiver in a bench vise so that work may be performed on the muzzle device and/or rail system. P/N:30447
www.knightarmco.com 
Knight's Armament URX II/3 Barrel Nut Wrench
Shop Knight's Armament URX II/3 Barrel Nut Wrench | 5 Star Rating on 1 Review for Knight's Armament URX II/3 Barrel Nut Wrench + Free Shipping over $49.
www.opticsplanet.com I have a Mod 0 and Mod 1 SR15. The Mod 0 has the URX2 with flip up front sight. I love the 3.1 Rail BUT unless you are going for full clone or a vintage build, Gieselle makes a superior rail system. The lockup and alignment and strength is second to none.
You are going to spend ALOT of money trying to get close to a LPR type gun and get none of the benefits. I would just save up and buy a used LPR upper or full gun. I have seen them go for $1800-2200.
That's good advice; but I haven't seen any lately for that price.
I have 3 KAC's one is an LPR..............absolutely great shooting rifle.If you can afford one, get one; you'll never regret it.
MM
KAC-Knight's Armament Upper Receiver Kit, SR-15 LPR MOD 2, 18" Barrel, URX 4, M-LOK
The SR-15 E3 Mod 2 5.56 mm NATO barrel is manufactured for military grade durability, and is free-floated inside a URX4 M-LOK handguard. An improved E3 round-lug bolt design both enhances function and increases bolt life. The 5.56 mm 3-Prong Flash Eliminator interferes with propellant gas...
www.operationparts.com Great info, thanks! Saving some money is a good thing as well as long as the parts are GTG. What I meant was something similar to the old match rifle, not the LPR. I cant have a threaded barrel unless I have a brake pinned and welded. Im always looking for complete uppers and if I see something I like, I'll definitely grab it.
KAC-Knight's Armament Upper Receiver Kit, SR-15 LPR MOD 2, 18" Barrel, URX 4, M-LOK
The SR-15 E3 Mod 2 5.56 mm NATO barrel is manufactured for military grade durability, and is free-floated inside a URX4 M-LOK handguard. An improved E3 round-lug bolt design both enhances function and increases bolt life. The 5.56 mm 3-Prong Flash Eliminator interferes with propellant gas...
I thought you were talking about the complete gun................
Kelley's Enterprises in Key West has the upper for $1800 & the complete rifle for $2400..........I've always dealt thru him as he's hooked in tight with KAC & they drop ship for him & he is almost always the lowest price in the country.
LPR Upper
LPR Complete Rifle
MM
KAC has 2 versions of the trigger for SR-15's; the regular version that goes into everything but the LPR & then the one that is used in the LPR which is considerably better, IMHO................& I ain't guessing as I have both.
But I still think the SSA-E is better than the LPR trigger for a precision rifle, but changing to a lighter trigger spring makes the LPR trigger very close to the SSA-E.
MM
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I'll probably keep the trigger a KAC 2 stage, What about the the rest? Safety, Mag release, pins, or whatever else? Does it really make a difference if its KAC or not as long as its quality stuff? I do need ambi controls. Sorry, I have never built one before.
Keymod or Mlok? What the difference or is one just newer then the other? I assume its the way stuff is attached. Is one preferred over the other?
Keymod or Mlok? What the difference or is one just newer then the other? I assume its the way stuff is attached. Is one preferred over the other?
Just had one where the disconnector failed. I've got a few of these and don't remember if this one is a newer one or one that I've had for a while. I wouldn't trust one in a hard use gun.
I actually used a lower parts kit sold by white oak armament. Very high quality parts.
There has been a KAC 2 stage match trigger on arfcom for a month at 170. The non adjustable type. Am I missing something or should I get it?
Not to be a mudge, but why go through all the hassle of gathering all the various parts and assembling them yourself when a brand new, all-factory SR-15 E3 Mod2 can be bought for only $2500?
They’re not exactly expensive guns.
They’re not exactly expensive guns.
Simple answers.
1, I dont have 2500 to dump on something lump sum. I can work on this as funds allow it.
2, I want a non threaded barrel
3, I like having part selection and setting things up how I like.
4, I like shopping
5, I like assembling things
6, I like having things you cant buy off the shelf..
Think that covers it...lol
It's probally stag or other cheap lpk. I only trust colt or BCM lpk unless it's factory KAC, G, or DD.
Then skip all the KAC shit. If you aren't after the benefits of the gas system and bolt, you are wasting money.
Depends if it's the old or new style. Old style was failure prone and the reason socom went to Bill G and bassically created his company by modifying the Hi speed from hi power shooting to mil cycle.
New style kac is a fantastic trigger. Have to find out which it is. $170 for a new style is shut up and take my money.
Can you tell by a photo of the trigger? I need to research the gas systems. They are suppose to be worthy.
Attachments
I can't. The fact it's for sale with original packaging probally means it's the new style. I don't remember KAC selling triggers alone back in 01-04ish time frame, just in their guns. If I had to guess it's probally new. If you don't want it can you send me his contact info, I'll buy it.
Definitely not. I have a DD and the LPK from WOA is much better. Seems like you have some sort of bias since you're just making assumptions.
How do you know its better? What qualities make it better?
There is exactly one way to prove the quality of a LPK. Can you guess?
And here we go again.
He said I was making assumptions, I challenged him to qualify his statement.
He said WOA LPK is better than DD. HOW?
This is how debate works. Do you need me to explain it in simpler terms?
Since no one was talking to you and you had to throw your dick into the ring, you could at least provide something valuable instead of being a troll. If you got nothing productive or informative to say, then feel free to keep it to yourself.
And Id like to hear it..lol When it comes to the pins, springs and detents, what makes a good kit? I was looking at Brownells last night. The BCM kit looked good but was sold out. Obviously the pins need to be on the precision side with a good finish or Id think you'll have headaches. The KAC trigger sold.
At the risk of resurrecting an old thread I would be interested in learning how to identify a quality LPK, Mr Football? I am doing my first such build, too.....
I am impatient and went ahead and ordered to Geissele ultra duty kit. Figured I couldn’t go wrong with that....
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