Range Report Just found a killer load.

S

shadowlid

Private
Minuteman
Jan 31, 2010
79
0
35
Morganton, North Carolina, 28655
www.reloadersauction.com
#1
I found a load that my guns loves.
Here are some pics. Im not sure how your suposed to measure the group i did it center to center. The shot at the bottom was a differnt bullet. I was looking at the wrong load in the book and put more powder in it then the other 3. So i thought i would use it for the first shot to dirty the bore. But overall i think this is a good group.

My gun is a Remington sps Tactical
Nothing special it has a B&C a2 on it.
A bushnell 3200 elite 10x
Super cheap rings and base. For now.


IMG_0217.jpg

group2.jpg
 
#5
Re: Just found a killer load.

What's the reasoning again behind shooting 5 round groups when testing a load?

I always heard that 3 shots test the load/rifle......and 5 shots test the shooter. If I'm doing load testing, I usually stick to 3 rounds per load.....till I find a good one, then I'll do many more 5 & 10 shot strings verifying the new load.

Why waste 5 rounds when testing a new load, if 3 will give you a good indication....?? Just asking....
 
#7
Re: Just found a killer load.

mgd45, you are correct about 3 rounds generally testing the load/rifle/optic/mount etc. combination, and 5 rounds generally testing the shooter. However, according to what Lowlight, the owner of this site, has told me (relative to a thread I started), 5 round groups hold the shooter to a higher standard than 3 round groups, and he wants the shooters here to be held to that standard. Since it is his site, it does not matter if we disagree.
 
#8
Re: Just found a killer load.

those shots are a nice group, but can you do it again, and again, and again? You kind of answered your own question. If you are an accoplished shooter, and your shooting skills and rifle are infallable, the 3 shots is enough. I dont thing any of us are on that level. Where those shots based on you skill, ammo, or luck? 5 shots is a better starting point. If you can do a group like that with 5 shots, and do it repeatedly then you can pack your bags and call it a day.

also, it is nice to put up some load data, and weapon info like caliber and such, distance to target, perhaps pics of the rifle as well. Not calling you a liar or anything but it is easy to punch holes with a .308 caliber pen. Till more info is provided, some may raise the "bravo sierra" flag.
 
#9
Re: Just found a killer load.

tigerhawk,

I totally agree with LL desire to hold us to a higher standard when trying to show everyone how well you can shoot.....but maybe in the reloading section when posting load development shots.....it shouldn't be necessary........

But his rules.....so we play by them. LOL!
 
#11
Re: Just found a killer load.

I thought the only groups Lowlight allowed anymore were group buys. Aren't you supposed to be shooting one sighter, then moving from dot to dot on the target? :)
 
#12
Re: Just found a killer load.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mgd45,

By the way, I really like your sig. </div></div>

Thanks.......read it somewhere else, & after 13 years as LEO, I realize how true it is!

I got into a debate with a fellow LEO who had a draconian views on gun control, (actually believed only LEO's & military should have firearms....
shocked.gif
). In our discussion, I simply stated that if he were to quit or retire from the force, to consider this......

Our town has a population of around 12,000.....we only have 6 patrol officers on duty from 1700 to 0800 hours. So that's 2000 citizens for each LEO on duty to protect.
eek.gif


Considering that pro-active protection of our citizens is <span style="font-weight: bold">SECONDARY</span> to answering 911 calls, and the on-duty shift usually answers about 60 calls during their shift....imagine how many LEO's are left to protect him & his family at midnight when that cracked-out, druggy looking for dope money kicks in his door....

It didn't take much more imagination for him to realize that if can take a gun home at night to protect his family as an LEO......then why shouldn't he be able to have the same security when he's no longer in law enforcement.....

And we're a small town........it's even worse in the big cities.....
 
#13
Re: Just found a killer load.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mgd45,

By the way, I really like your sig. </div></div>

Thanks.......read it somewhere else, & after 13 years as LEO, I realize how true it is!

I got into a debate with a fellow LEO who had a draconian views on gun control, (actually believed only LEO's & military should have firearms....
shocked.gif
). In our discussion, I simply stated that if he were to quit or retire from the force, to consider this......

Our town has a population of around 12,000.....we only have 6 patrol officers on duty from 1700 to 0800 hours. So that's 2000 citizens for each LEO on duty to protect.
eek.gif


Considering that pro-active protection of our citizens is <span style="font-weight: bold">SECONDARY</span> to answering 911 calls, and the on-duty shift usually answers about 60 calls during their shift....imagine how many LEO's are left to protect him & his family at midnight when that cracked-out, druggy looking for dope money kicks in his door....

It didn't take much more imagination for him to realize that if can take a gun home at night to protect his family as an LEO......then why shouldn't he be able to have the same security when he's no longer in law enforcement.....

And we're a small town........it's even worse in the big cities..... </div></div>

Smart, mgd45.

Also, obviously only the law-abiding obey gun laws. All politicians have access to the data about how violent crime has dropped substantially in shall-issue states. Any politician who tells you he/she wants to take your guns for your safety is a liar, and anyone who believes them is a fool.
 
#14
Re: Just found a killer load.

This same guy left our Dept. last year to work in the private computer industry. He was gone for maybe 6 months when he called me one day to ask me where the best gun shop in our area was to buy a small Glock.

I asked him why, because I figured he already owned a pistol when he worked for our Dept. & carried it as backup. He told me that he never bought a backup gun & all he ever had was his duty pistol......so this lead into another conversation about why he was looking to buy a pistol now...

He was very honest & forthcoming that he was wrong about his views on gun control & after being away from LE......he felt "naked" without having a gun on him for protection....

He and his wife had gone to dinner the weekend before & when they were walking down the street to their car, they felt very vulnerable to some thug looking dudes on the sidewalk. His wife basically told him that she had never felt that scared or nervous when he would carry his gun off-duty......but now that he didn't have one, she wanted him to get one.

It took having an experience like this...& no longer being an LEO to really change his mind & views. Now he is very passionate about his gun rights and last month he asked me to help instruct about 10 guys from his church that all wanted to learn how to shoot before buying their first pistols.

Pretty cool.....
 
#15
Re: Just found a killer load.

Thank goodness that he is intellectually honest enough to see when the preponderance of facts do not support his previously-held views. If enough of the anti gunners were that way, we could show them the truth pretty easily.
 
#17
Re: Just found a killer load.

is this the forum where you post 2nd Amendment stuff...? lol..

How easy it is to stray from subject...no pun, i am easily am swayed....

I too dont see the true relavence in a 3 shot string, would rather see a 5 shot, but i guess it serves some purpose. As asked earlier.....can it be repeated?

Nice though....
 
#18
Re: Just found a killer load.

I'm not the OP but, I'll write my new experiences with a new rifle.

I'm still new with my new rifle... I've been working on loads but, sadly, I've been shooting 3 shot groups BUT, I think I've found the sweet spot. ( three, three shot groups all went to the same impact spot and set on top of each other, all the bullets went through the same hole ) Using the OCW method, it seems I've found the rifle's sort of natural point of aim and a node where the rifle really tightens up the group. I have not messed with seating depths much yet but, I started about .010 off the lands.

300wm
LW 1:10 26" barrel on a trued rem 700 action in an A3 stock.

220gr SMK over 75.7gr of H1000 ( COAL is about 3.90 but, seating is about .010 off the lands )

I shot the 1000yd range pretty well with it last Saturday. Only 27 moa up from my 100yd zero... it changed to 26.75 when the rifle got a little warm but, I fired quite a bit from that range. LOL I was really working the guy in the pits. haha

2860fps
 
#19
Re: Just found a killer load.

I both agree and disagree with LL on the grouping, however it's not to the point that I believe he's wrong, in any way, shape or form. I use 3 shot groups for initial load development to find a node, and then verify any findings with 5 shot groups. I zero with 3 shot groups. I've posted some 3 shot groups on here before, never been razzed, i'm not posting them as a "look at me, am I a sniper now?", usually posting them in response on threads about working with a particular powder and bullet combo, and showing the results i'm getting with a particular load combo.

I don't really post groups anymore these days, it gets a bit boring, and monotonous for me to do so, don't see the point. New shooters I would encourage to post them as many of the experienced shooters on this site can interpret the group to see what you may need to work on to improve.

The thing that sucks about great 3 shot groups, is the excitement that you get that screws things up on the 4th shot.

Branden
 
#20
Re: Just found a killer load.

In the .30 military calibers, our tax dollars rather conclusively proved between 40 and 50 years ago (for 7.62 M118 and .30-06 M72) that 5-round groups, on average over very large samples, tended to be 1.6 times the extreme spread of 3-round groups.

Or some similar ratio.

It's not always shooter error.

Saturday night, I ranged a 2-liter jug as 222 yards, and walked a 300 Win Mag onto it in three shots with a good spotter and only two whacks in the glasses from the scope. Sitting, hasty sling, and a pretty lightweight rifle I couldn't get a good spotweld on.

Then I hauled out my .308, dialed in my 200 meter zero, and from the belly-perch center-punched a skinny Cheeze Whiz can (the pressurized things) with the first shot.

I put the rifle away.

It was getting too dark to really see anything above 8-power, you know...

This was with a gun and load that drift from .2 to .4 mil groups, 5-shots. But hey, it's a semi that looks cool...ick...
 
#22
Re: Just found a killer load.

The load looks promising, but I'd not feel comfortable basing future ammo handloading production on the results delivered by only 3 rounds, and 5's not a whole lot more reassuring for me.

I shoot three round groups, but I also shoot a minimum of 3 to 5 of those groups, and shoot them in a round robin sequence; one round at an aim point, next round next aim point, rotating around the aim points until all rounds are fired. This way each shot is its own goal and consequence, and results aren't shaded by any of the psychologcal dunnage that accompanies 'normal' group shooting.

Greg
 
#23
Re: Just found a killer load.

Why 5-round groups?

Statistics!

Short answer:

A 3-round group lies to you more often than it tells you the truth, while a 5-round group tells you the truth more often than it lies to you.

Longer answer:

Thus if the 3-round group is small, the shooter may believe that something good has happened in his shooting regimine whereas he actually made a slight mistake weighting his powder charge but was shootin better that day. This kind of ill informed (statistical) reasoning leads too many reloades on a longer circuitous path in load development. Whereas, using 5-shots groups rarely takes quite as long a circuitous a path in load development.
 
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