Just got meplat trimmer and pointing die...

[jwp6114]

Just got the Montour meplat trimmer with inside de-bur tool, and john widden pointing die...



didnt takt long to set up, the montour trimmer kit offers the best results of all that i have seen but is not the fastest.

pic is of one trimmed, then inside de-bur, then pointed...

 

[DocB]

JWP,

Contact H. Pitts here on the hide for a trimmer alternative. Glad to see you're have good results.

Thanks,
DocB

 

[jwp6114]

Will shoot him a message...

whats his alternative?

yea 1" verticle at 600 yds, i was sold.

 

[memilanuk]

Been using my Giraud trimmer for meplat uniforming, and Whidden die for pointing... seems to work pretty well. The Montour Cty trimmer definitely makes a certain amount of sense, but I already had the Giraud...

Big thing to watch out for is not trying to make them into little needles... seen people buckle the nose cone and/or the boat tail trying to point too much.

 

[exx1976]

----Tag----

 

[Skyking]

I want to start pointing. So whats the best equipment to get? Widden pointer with what trimmer?

 

[jwp6114]

I bought montour

Great write up with close up pics by 6mmbr... http://www.6mmbr.com/MCRMeplat.html

 

[jwp6114]

Headed to range now, post up some target pics soon

 

[Big Z]

Looks like a pain in the dick!

 

[jwp6114]

Yea, most can't hold as tight as their gun will shoot, so if you suck it won't make u much better

 

[1911GunNut]

I've done this via Giraud trimmer/Widden Die to SMKs, haven't found they are any better than just shooting Scenars, Bergers. I guess SMKs are cheaper, but you invest a lot of time in them. Heck AMAXs are pretty decent at a distance if you've weighed/sorted them.

 

[glassbeaver]

Always thought this was reloading pixie dust but I guess you can't argue with the results. May have to give this a look.

 

[jwp6114]

Winds 5 gusting to 12 mph... 1" verticals about 2.5" wide... 600yds

 

[jwp6114]

Can anyone else post up results at distance, I have one friend shooting the hunting vld's getting great results at distance with out trimming and pointing, but I think my groups will tighten up after I'm using my own scope and anneal my brass

 

[ryanjay11]

Monte,
Are you happy with the results of the Giraud meplat trimmer? What bullets are you trimming?

I might have to pick one up for mine. When you consider that its already on the bench and the cutter/holder is about the same price as a manual unit, its a no brainer.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[AZ.noob]

Oh great, there goes another hundred bucks :/

Seriously though, thanks for the review. Good stuff

 

[Gillettehunter]

I have recently read elsewhere that pointing can increase BC's by 5-10%..... Bruce

 

[wilecoyote]

meplat trimming and pointing tried on 200grs. homemoly sierra on unscoped K98k, and I've never regretted it, because I've had my best results with it even from this ol'relic _ (only asked myself why nobody produce a tool with both the features unified, more or less like a wood drill bit, with his integral spiked pilot )

 

[memilanuk]

Monte,
Are you happy with the results of the Giraud meplat trimmer? What bullets are you trimming?

So far I'm very happy with the results from the Giraud trimmer... very quick and easy to use, no burrs thanks to the high speed cutter... makes processing large batches actually bearable.

If you *really* want to be totally over-the-top anal-retentive about the whole thing, it has been suggested by some 1k BR types that you might want to trim, point, and then trim again to take just a whisker off to make sure that all the bullets are the same length after pointing.

With the Giraud, this is actually pretty easy. I use aftermarket die lock rings from either Hornady or Lyman rather than the gold Dillon ones that Giraud supplies, as I can literally leave them locked in place on the die body. After initial trimming, then pointing, I can take a Skip Otto die shim from Sinclair Int'l and drop a 3 or 4 thou shim under the die ring and screw it back down again, and re-trim the bullets again with the end result being everything is about as perfect as you can make it. I will be honest in that I don't know that I have ever seen a difference on target from this last little bit, which why when/if I do so its only a) for a really important event and b) when I have extra time and absolutely nothing else left that needs doing.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[damoncali]

I have recently read elsewhere that pointing can increase BC's by 5-10%..... Bruce

I believe the difference to be closer to 1-3%, with smaller calibers benefiting more than larger calibers.

 

[memilanuk]

Some numbers from testing done by Dave Tooley in 2011 on some Berger .30 cal 210gn VLDs...

Here’s some preliminary numbers from the Doppler radar test.

Average G7 BC from 500-1200 yds.

Stock .289

Trimmed .286

Pointed .298

Trimmed and pointed .297

The stock and trimmed numbers are that close because of your conservative trim job. In real life applied to other bullets with bad meplats a conservative trim could actually increase the BC. Reason being the under lying factor we are correcting is in flight yaw. Reduce the yaw without increasing the meplat diameter and the BC could go up slightly.

Pointing these bullets increases the BC 3.1%

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Seriously, $350 to be able to fix bullets????? Can you really see the difference???
I'm not saying BS, but how many are good enough to really see the difference?
If it is for real, I'd like to see before and after pics, please. In any event, the need and money to do this are not here for me yet.

Edit: Sorry Milanuk, your post came in between when I started to read this thread and when I posted. I would like to see pics of the group shrinkage (b-4 & after), still, though.

 

[damoncali]

At 1000 yards, it's worth a few inches of drop and a click of wind or so.

If you throw in that the pointing operation is going to help your bad bullets more than your good ones, you'll get a more consistent BC as well, which will help your vertical.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

At 1000 yards, it's worth a few inches of drop and a click of wind or so.

If you throw in that the pointing operation is going to help your bad bullets more than your good ones, you'll get a more consistent BC as well, which will help your vertical.

Okay, but $350 for a set up seems like a huge deal. Question from the ignorant---does say trimming meplats help, or must one do both to see any real return on investment?

 

[damoncali]

Trimming will in theory make the BC *lower* (because it increases the size of the meplat), but more consistent. Pointing a trimmed bullet will shrink the meplat back down even more than it started, increasing the BC of the newly consistently trimmed bullet. Whether or not it's worth the money is up to you. If you're shooting .338's at 300 yards, I'd say no. If you're ringing out the last bit of juice from a Palma rifle or 1000 benchrest rig, maybe it is.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Trimming will in theory make the BC *lower* (because it increases the size of the meplat), but more consistent. Pointing a trimmed bullet will shrink the meplat back down even more than it started, increasing the BC of the newly consistently trimmed bullet. Whether or not it's worth the money is up to you. If you're shooting .338's at 300 yards, I'd say no. If you're ringing out the last bit of juice from a Palma rifle or 1000 benchrest rig, maybe it is.

Thanks, damoncali, that is the info I was looking for. I think I shall wait a while and concentrate on other things first, things I know I can improve considerably.

 

[damoncali]

That's why I don't do it. This is benchrest/high master stuff. Not worth the time when my bullets are blowing half way to kansas.

 

[memilanuk]

Okay, but $350 for a set up seems like a huge deal. Question from the ignorant---does say trimming meplats help, or must one do both to see any real return on investment?

When the wind is doing this shit... none of that stuff helps




Something you need to remember... I wasn't specifically advocating the use of a Giraud trimmer *just* for taking a little bit off the nose of a bullet. That machine was purchased for something else entirely - trimming cases, en masse. Trim, chamfer, deburr all in one fell swoop, actually, with much easier change-over between calibers than other previous models. The meplat uniforming head came out much later, and since I already *had* the trimmer sitting there... it was an easy decision to add another head to the bin I have for 'em. That and I trimmed about half a box of bullets by hand using Whidden's holder and cutter in my Wilson trimmer... decided that B.S. was for the birds!

 

[Sniper Uncle]

When the wind is doing this shit... none of that stuff helps




Something you need to remember... I wasn't specifically advocating the use of a Giraud trimmer *just* for taking a little bit off the nose of a bullet. That machine was purchased for something else entirely - trimming cases, en masse. Trim, chamfer, deburr all in one fell swoop, actually, with much easier change-over between calibers than other previous models. The meplat uniforming head came out much later, and since I already *had* the trimmer sitting there... it was an easy decision to add another head to the bin I have for 'em. That and I trimmed about half a box of bullets by hand using Whidden's holder and cutter in my Wilson trimmer... decided that B.S. was for the birds!

Actually, I was looking at the MCR trimmer--$85, that I can see---and the JCWhidden die set $250. Then, if you have a couple sizes, even more dough. That is what I was looking at for the $350 or so I mentioned. If I had a trimmer allready, then a meplat head would make sense.

 

[COTTON_00]

Tagged for future reference

 

[Creature]

I looked into this a while back and called Sierra about it. They said that if you reshaped the profile of the bullet in any way it would degrade the accuracy. They told me that the tip of the bullet didn't play into the accuracy of it that much. 300gr .338 Sierra bullets vary considerably due to the tip and I'm wondering I should reconsider.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

The more I think on it, the more I wonder. If Sierra is known widely for match grade bullets---Match Kings---and they allow variance in the tips, how much does the tip really affect the flight of the bullet. If you notice, the front of most air planes is rounded, not pointed, and the bow of most ships has a bulbous hump under water. These are to improve airflow or waterflow over the surfaces behind them. So, how much really can be gained other than in the shooter's mind??? Maybe the confidence afforded to the anal shooter is enough to help him shoot better, accounting for seen accuracy gains....
I shall have to try it when I can afford to, but until then, I shan't lose sleep over it.

 

[memilanuk]

And yet... Sierra does point the tips of the S2156 155gn Palma Match Kings, at the U.S.A. Palma Team's request.

One of the bits I got from Dave Tooley was that with the ragged noses found on some SMKs (and the occasional box of Bergers as well) meplat uniforming alone sometimes *increased* the BC slightly after you trimmed off all that nastiness to an even profile. It shouldn't, but that says volumes about the importance of the nose/tip, as far as I'm concerned. Most people don't shoot far enough, or just don't shoot enough, to see the difference, so most bullet companies consider it way more work than its worth for their bottom line.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

And yet... Sierra does point the tips of the S2156 155gn Palma Match Kings, at the U.S.A. Palma Team's request.

One of the bits I got from Dave Tooley was that with the ragged noses found on some SMKs (and the occasional box of Bergers as well) meplat uniforming alone sometimes *increased* the BC slightly after you trimmed off all that nastiness to an even profile. It shouldn't, but that says volumes about the importance of the nose/tip, as far as I'm concerned. Most people don't shoot far enough, or just don't shoot enough, to see the difference, so most bullet companies consider it way more work than its worth for their bottom line.

Fair enough. Thanks for the info. This means that I shall continue my plan to become a better shooter before I start to chase the meplats and points. I am sure that the most improvement I can get right now is improving the skill of the dummy behind the trigger.

 

[jwp6114]

It pays dividends when you are shooting in little to no wind at 500+ yards. After my back heals up I intend to get out for more testing, my scope will be back on the 9th. I have been sorting bullets, pointing, and annealing while I am down, as I feel I can.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

It pays dividends when you are shooting in little to no wind at 500+ yards. After my back heals up I intend to get out for more testing, my scope will be back on the 9th. I have been sorting bullets, pointing, and annealing while I am down, as I feel I can.

Hope you heal up well and soon.

When you do get out there, I'd love to see some pics of your groups, especially if you happen to have some before pics too. I am intrigued about meplat trimming and pointing, but I can't justify the price right at this time. Good pics of before and after will definitely make me more ready to set money aside for this in future.
Thanks, and Good Health,

 

[jwp6114]

My gun was shooting around 3-4 inches at 600yds before trying any, the group pic on page 1 was in crap winds with a friends scope (ocular lens not set for my eyes)

So when I do return to the range, whenever that may be, I expect consistent sub 2" groups at 600

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Cool, thanks. I look forward to your speedy recovery and an update.

 

[jwp6114]

First batch of pointed and sorted bullets I have done... Shot yesterday, gun grouped 1.5" at 600yds
And my group at 1000 was 3x5" pictured below... (10" bull)