K&M arbor press and Wilson seating die

[Firearriw]

Howdy. Just got a chance to try my new press and seating die and I have run into some issues. I’m using new Lapua 6.5 CM brass, 143gr ELD-X bullets, using K&M expander mandrels to set .002 neck tension and was confirmed with the correct .002 tension pin gauge and my press has a force gauge on it. I have seen the amount of force to seat the bullets go from 65-110 pounds.

I called K&M about this issue and a gentleman said for me to turn the necks to right at 100% clean up. This put me right at .013 with the clean up. The amount of force after turning the necks is still up around 65 pounds.

Has anyone running this set up run into this amount of force, or had issues with Wilson seating dies?

 

[moaorbust]

I just got one as well and my seating force starts at 15 pounds and finishes around 85. I am using some lube to seat the bullets.

 

[918v]

Howdy. Just got a chance to try my new press and seating die and I have run into some issues. I’m using new Lapua 6.5 CM brass, 143gr ELD-X bullets, using K&M expander mandrels to set .002 neck tension and was confirmed with the correct .002 tension pin gauge and my press has a force gauge on it. I have seen the amount of force to seat the bullets go from 65-110 pounds.

I called K&M about this issue and a gentleman said for me to turn the necks to right at 100% clean up. This put me right at .013 with the clean up. The amount of force after turning the necks is still up around 65 pounds.

Has anyone running this set up run into this amount of force, or had issues with Wilson seating dies?

Get some imperial graphite dry lube

 

[Firearriw]

I just got one as well and my seating force starts at 15 pounds and finishes around 85. I am using some lube to seat the bullets.

Well I’m glade to see someone else is in the same ball park as I am. I have not found any kind of standard force that is required to seat 6.5 CM with Lapua brass.

 

[Firearriw]

Get some imperial graphite dry lube

I tried using some, but this stuff never really sticks until the second loading. I’m curious to see what will happen on the second loading.

 

[918v]

I tried using some, but this stuff never really sticks until the second loading. I’m curious to see what will happen on the second loading.

It sticks just fine if you apply it correctly.

 

[Firearriw]

It sticks just fine if you apply it correctly.

I’m always in on new techniques. I usually dip the neck into the container and tap the residual out.

Is there a better way? Not talking any sh*t here.

 

[moaorbust]

Are you using new brass? The current high pressure is on new .015 turned Lapua. I usually use Federal and the seating pressure on my Forster press is super light. I get an ES of 19 and SD of 7 with my current process so I decided to upgrade to the best brass. This is my first Arbor and Wilson seater so I am learning too. I am guessing the seating pressure will drop once the brass is fire formed but haven’t been able test yet as every damn weekend is another “atmospheric river”.

 

[iceng]

Chamfer inside of necks can help. Lube helps. Molly coated bullets helps. Neck turned brass helps. Mandrel expanding helps. Everything helps. 7/19 ???

Load and forget. You are over thinking this.

 

[Sigma]

65 doesn’t sound excessive, does it feel excessive?

forget the dry lubes, try some neolube #2

are you annealing??

 

[oso1]

New brass will always create inconsistent seating force, lube will help. After 1 firing problem solved, unless you wet tumble and clean the inside of your cases back to new.

 

[Sigma]

New brass will always create inconsistent seating force, lube will help. After 1 firing problem solved, unless you wet tumble and clean the inside of your cases back to new.

my lapua 6.5 prc was horrible, so tight it damaged the bullets going in, excess of 400lbs of seating force.

hitting them with a 263 mandrel and neolube fixed that problem

 

[Rocketmandb]

Others have said it, new brass, even after a mandrel, will be different vs after the first firing. Thereafter, I like to find a sizing bushing that comes closest to matching the mandrel I want to use. I want the mandrel to just barely engage the brass after sizing. Also, and others have mentioned this too, I use graphite lube on the case necks - I actually do it prior to using the mandrel. There is enough left over afterward for seating.

Also, Lapua brass comes with very tight necks. After using a mandrel, fresh brass will spring back quite a bit. It will be very different on your next load as long as you use an appropriately sized bushing. For reference, I seat to ~40lb for my 300 PRC.

 

[rustyinbend]

Howdy. Just got a chance to try my new press and seating die and I have run into some issues. I’m using new Lapua 6.5 CM brass, 143gr ELD-X bullets, using K&M expander mandrels to set .002 neck tension and was confirmed with the correct .002 tension pin gauge and my press has a force gauge on it. I have seen the amount of force to seat the bullets go from 65-110 pounds.

I called K&M about this issue and a gentleman said for me to turn the necks to right at 100% clean up. This put me right at .013 with the clean up. The amount of force after turning the necks is still up around 65 pounds.

Has anyone running this set up run into this amount of force, or had issues with Wilson seating dies?

Instead of trying to "measure" my way into the right seating force, I just increased mandrel size until I get a smooth 20 lbs start and an apex of around 40 lbs of force. Calculating neck tension via "guess" turned out to be a waste of time for me. I care less about the measurement, and more about the force, and I mandrel my way into the right seating force.

 

[918v]

I’m always in on new techniques. I usually dip the neck into the container and tap the residual out.

Is there a better way? Not talking any sh*t here.

Are you using the ceramic application media?

 

[rustyinbend]

Also ... NeoLube #2 is awesome for lubing necks ... way better than the graphite dunk.

 

[Firearriw]

Are you using the ceramic application media?

I am using Imperial Dry Lube.

 

[Firearriw]

Instead of trying to "measure" my way into the right seating force, I just increased mandrel size until I get a smooth 20 lbs start and an apex of around 40 lbs of force. Calculating neck tension via "guess" turned out to be a waste of time for me. I care less about the measurement, and more about the force, and I mandrel my way into the right seating force.

Did this leave you enough neck tension to hold bullets with out any set back?

 

[918v]

I am using Imperial Dry Lube.

But you're not applying it correctly. Get the Redding ceramic application media and the graphite will stick to the neck.

 

[Lawnboi]

Try some imperial wax on the rim before running the mandrel down, then dry tumble it off.

This is a problem I have had with virgin Lapua as well. If you feel a fresh case the metal almost feels grippy on the annealed portion. This combined with the fact that graphite lube dosnt stick to an annealed neck very well leaves you mandreling with no lubricant. Combine that with the grit feeling on the brass leaves you scratching your head because you have the right differential between bullet and case, but you are applying a lot of force to seat a bullet.

To fix this, I ended up using imperial wax on the rim, very little before mandreling, followed by a long dry tumble. This knocks down the grittiness of the case. I used to use first firing as a sacrificial firing to get rid of the goofy seating, now I feel comfortable shooting a match or hunting with virgin brass.

My opinion on the graphite lube is that stuff can go right in the trash.

 

[Sigma]

Try some imperial wax on the rim before running the mandrel down, then dry tumble it off.

This is a problem I have had with virgin Lapua as well. If you feel a fresh case the metal almost feels grippy on the annealed portion. This combined with the fact that graphite lube dosnt stick to an annealed neck very well leaves you mandreling with no lubricant. Combine that with the grit feeling on the brass leaves you scratching your head because you have the right differential between bullet and case, but you are applying a lot of force to seat a bullet.

To fix this, I ended up using imperial wax on the rim, very little before mandreling, followed by a long dry tumble. This knocks down the grittiness of the case. I used to use first firing as a sacrificial firing to get rid of the goofy seating, now I feel comfortable shooting a match or hunting with virgin brass.

My opinion on the graphite lube is that stuff can go right in the trash.

don’t discount all graphite lubes, give neolube #2 a shot sometime. Colloidal graphite suspended in an alcohol solution. Works absolute wonders. But I agree, dry graphite lube is messy and very inconsistent.

 

[Lawnboi]

don’t discount all graphite lubes, give neolube #2 a shot sometime. Colloidal graphite suspended in an alcohol solution. Works absolute wonders. But I agree, dry graphite lube is messy and very inconsistent.

Does the neolube stick to an annealed neck? I know that’s one issue with plain graphite. Amp even has it in the instructions not to use graphite. Should have read them before I scratched the piss out of a bunch of cases.

 

[918v]

Does the neolube stick to an annealed neck? I know that’s one issue with plain graphite. Amp even has it in the instructions not to use graphite. Should have read them before I scratched the piss out of a bunch of cases.

It’s not an issue if you apply it correctly

 

[ma smith]

Basically, this thread is confirming CW that new lapua brass has squeaky clean, tight necks and sharp chamfers...

 

[Haney]

Basically, this thread is confirming CW that new lapua brass has squeaky clean, tight necks and sharp chamfers...

You nailed it, and I will add inconsistent neck IDs right from the start . Mandrels can equal things out to a certain degree but not like a batch of FL sized brass .

 

[Rockhurr]

I’m always in on new techniques. I usually dip the neck into the container and tap the residual out.

Is there a better way? Not talking any sh*t here.

Try swabbing it inside the neck with a Q-tip after brass is charged. Hopefully will see improvement after first round.

 

[Rockhurr]

I normally FL size brass with .289 bushing and mandrel with .262 expander and charge it. Then carefully swab the inside neck with dry moly lube from 21st century and seat. All done within 1 minute… I get 50lb. This is with solution cleaned and annealed Lapua brass and 0.014” neck thickness. I’m getting a .263” mandrel to try it, hoping to get force down to 30-40.

I also noticed that when seating, if you slowly apply the force on the arbor handle it takes a lot more force to bottom out the seater vs if you apply more force from the start.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I normally FL size brass with .289 bushing and mandrel with .262” expander and charge it. Then carefully swab the inside neck with dry moly lube from 21st century and seat. All done within 1 minute… I get 50lb. This is with solution cleaned and annealed brass. I’m getting a .263” mandrel to try it, hoping to get force down to 30-40.

What are you using to apply to the necks? Q-tips?

I apply using application media, but I'm sure it's not as consistent as it could be. I hadn't heard of Neolube until @Sigma mentioned it. It makes sense that a liquid lube would apply more evenly. I was going to order to try it out, but frankly I forgot about it. Resurrecting this thread reminded me and I just ordered some.

I'm going to do some testing on annealed brass using graphite, the 21st century stuff (application media and Q-tip(?)) and Neolube and I'll post the results - likely sometime in mid-June.

 

[Rockhurr]

What are you using to apply to the necks? Q-tips?

I apply using application media, but I'm sure it's not as consistent as it could be. I hadn't heard of Neolube until @Sigma mentioned it. It makes sense that a liquid lube would apply more evenly. I was going to order to try it out, but frankly I forgot about it. Resurrecting this thread reminded me and I just ordered some.

I'm going to do some testing on annealed brass using graphite, the 21st century stuff (application media and Q-tip(?)) and Neolube and I'll post the results - likely sometime in mid-June.

I have both the Imperial Graphite and the Dry Moly. The moly is a lot slicker. I tried dipping the case neck into the media method and it gets pretty messy because you have to clean off lube that’s on the out of the neck. And also the media from 21st Century tends to get stuck inside the neck so it takes time to dip, tap, and check. The media from Redding Imperial is smaller and doesn’t get stuck inside the neck but it’s not as slick as the moly (in my opinion). Then I switch to just swabbing the inside neck method with a cotton tip (intended for gun cleaning). I just dip the cotton tip into the media several times and apply. Seems to work out much better because you can get fresh lube inside the neck after charging.

 

[Sigma]

What are you using to apply to the necks? Q-tips?

I apply using application media, but I'm sure it's not as consistent as it could be. I hadn't heard of Neolube until @Sigma mentioned it. It makes sense that a liquid lube would apply more evenly. I was going to order to try it out, but frankly I forgot about it. Resurrecting this thread reminded me and I just ordered some.

I'm going to do some testing on annealed brass using graphite, the 21st century stuff (application media and Q-tip(?)) and Neolube and I'll post the results - likely sometime in mid-June.

i apply the neolube with a foam tipped applicator, bought a big pack off amazon.

i put all the cases in a loading block, dip the applicator in neolube, then starting going around the inside of the rim on all the cases.

i let it dry for a minute, then start again with a fresh dip and work in the opposite order. For a total of 2 coats and this ensures a good even application.

when you use a foam tip applicator, dip the neolube sparingly, or you’ll drop excess down the side of your case.

this method of neolube is so much better than the dry graphite media and less messy as well.

this is neolube #2 specfically that I am referring to

 

[Rockhurr]

i apply the neolube with a foam tipped applicator, bought a big pack off amazon.

i put all the cases in a loading block, dip the applicator in neolube, then starting going around the inside of the rim on all the cases.

i let it dry for a minute, then start again with a fresh dip and work in the opposite order. For a total of 2 coats and this ensures a good even application.

when you use a foam tip applicator, dip the neolube sparingly, or you’ll drop excess down the side of your case.

this method of neolube is so much better than the dry graphite media and less messy as well.

this is neolube #2 specfically that I am referring to

When using neolube do you get powder clinging on inside of neck after charging?

 

[Sigma]

When using neolube do you get powder clinging on inside of neck after charging?

absolutely not, the neolube is dry as a bone after the alcohol flashes off in a minute or two

 

[Rockhurr]

absolutely not, the neolube is dry as a bone after the alcohol flashes off in a minute or two

How is Neolube compare to Hornady One-Shot spray lube? If you spray at an angle you’ll get them inside the neck too.

 

[Sigma]

How is Neolube compare to Hornady One-Shot spray lube? If you spray at an angle you’ll get them inside the neck too.

never tried it the spray lube stuff, alot of top tier benchrest/f class competitors use neo lube. made a small video for you, hope it helps.

 

[tacos3]

I’m always in on new techniques. I usually dip the neck into the container and tap the residual out.

Is there a better way? Not talking any sh*t here.

I use imperial graphite with the beads along with and I dip the neck 3-4 times and wipe off the graphite on the outside before seating. I don’t have the force measurement system on my K&N but the seating force is very low. I also mandrel to .001 which might make a difference also. Good luck.