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Rifle Scopes Kahles K624i 6-24x56 !!help!!

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scotty615

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Minuteman
Mar 2, 2014
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victoria australia
g'day all names Scott ....new here to this forum and is the first i have joined in pursuit of knowledge and getting steered in the right direction!

i recently purchased my first high dollar optic (Kahles K624i 6-24x56) for my new rem700 xcr long range 300wm and i actually came to the decision to buy this optic through browsing this forum and reading on other people opinion of this rifle scope.
I previously was shooting my browning x-bolt 243win out to 1000m successfully with a vortex viper pst 4-16

...my reason for jumping up so much in $$$ to my new rifle is im looking to stretch it out to 1400m plus

now i have stumbled across a problem with my new kahles!! and its really getting to me to be honest.. not sure if im missing something or if this is actually the case!

so i thought id ask for help!

ive zeroed my kahles at 100m ..set the zero stop ...i have a night force 20moa base now i only have 12 or 13 mill elavation!!!!

it was my understanding that this scope would give me the full 26 mill after 100m zero before my purchase

...it is also my understanding (at the moment) that with s&b and stiener scopes ...two other scopes i was looking at buying will give the full 26 mill after setting 100m zero

this for me is a problem as i will be needing more elevation than this ...and yes i do know if i order a 40moa base that i may just get enough elevation out of it ...just!!
not something i want to do as i already stuffed up by buying then hs nightforce base with the 8x40 screws and had to get another ...id really really hate to buy a third base for this rifle! especially if im still not getting a good amount of elevation

but i have to say if there is not a way to resolve this i kinda maybe would have looked at buying the stiener 5-25 or even an s&b ...other than that the scope is fantastic ...amazing build quality! would maybe even recommend it

but i am bugged by the fact that my vortex viper pst has 17mills on it still on my 243 and if i had of known this i would not have purchased this scope so soon!

now is it something im missing in the manual ??? is there a way to set a 100m zero and have 26mill of elevation ??? or even 20 would be fine id feel comfortable and happy with that

as there is not much about this in the manual please help!!! i love this scope but 12 mill of elevation aint cutting it what are my options ?
 
I own all three of these scopes and they will all give you the same problem. All of These scopes have an approx total of 26 mils elevation. That means that when the erector is mechanically centered, you will have 13 mils up elevation and 13 mils down elevation. No magic solution here, if you're going to be shooting out to 1400m routinely you will need a 45 MOA canted base in order to be able to dial your scope to that elevation without having to hold over on your reticle. No way around it, 20 MOA bases are usually good to about 1100-1200m depending on what cartridge you're running, but not much further. Hope that helps.

-VB
 
thanks a bunch for the quick reply ..although i must say its not! the answer i was hoping for haha :(

ive done the calculations on a load im working on with 230gr bergers ill need 17mills for 1400m and 21mills should i ever want to go to 1600m ..its not something i will do often but i want the ability and the option of dialing it in if i needed to...

maybe ken can chime in on this ??? ...is there a way of playing with the mechanism myself ? although it may be highly recommended not too ? haha

i have read that a s&b will give you full 26mill above your zero is this true ?
 
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Well you could keep the base and buy a spuhr et al unimount with another 25 MOA and sell the rings. Which you may need to replace anyhow once you go 45 MOA. Also did you bed that base, because you should have more than 12 mil. Tighten the front two screws to 5-10 in/lbs with the two rear screws removed and see how much daylight there is between the rail and action. If it's really close then I don't think that's a 20 MOA rail.
 
scotty615 said:
i have a night force 20moa base now i only have 12 or 13 mill elavation!!!!
Click to expand...
g'day . Welcome to the Hide. When you installed your Night Force 20moa base did you put the thicker end toward the muzzle or toward the stock?
 
no i didnt bed the base that was on the list of things to do haha but i know exactly what you mean your rite ....well im running 1'000 rings now and its about 0'275 off the barrel ...that spuhr mount on top is pricey but an upgrade would be easier to deal with than buying another base lol ....how much closer will 20moa put me to the barrel i wonder ??? if its 0'275 off now would that mean go 0'275 higher ???
 
scotty615 said:
only goes one way don't they ...i didn't check if it went the wrong way ;) haha thicker end at stock recoil lug front
Click to expand...
Sorry I had a brain fart, I thought I remembered a rifle that had symmetrical screws in the front and rear of the base, obviously not a R700 LA. Still it might not hurt to measure the base to ascertain that it actually has a 20MOA taper.
 
just rechecked i have exactly 12.5 mill and windage is 8mill or so left and 3 right ....thinking now if i am going to have the same problem with other brands of scopes it may be time to pull it all off ...bed the base mount a spuhr unimount 20moa and see where im at maybe even a 25 or 30 moa if they make them ..hopefully that will clear up the uneven windage! ...(OCD)
 
Great thread, I was wondering the same thing myself. I have a 20 MOA base, and a 0 MOA sphur. I guess I need a 20 MOA mount now.
 
Also Worth remembering is that rifles are not necesarily true...........
Often barrels are not straight or action threads are off.
Top of action is rarely true either and picrails really have to be bedded if they should Point in ONE straight direction and not be bent....

So it's true that in theory a 45 moa base would solve his problem but in reality they would likely not.......
As you only get 12 mils despite that you have the scope on a 20 moa (6 mils) base.
45 moa is 13 mil, and 13 mils is only 7 mils more than the 6 mils(20 moa ) you already have.

So as I can see it you needs an additionally 14 mils to reach the full 26 mils......
 
scotty615 said:
just rechecked i have exactly 12.5 mill and windage is 8mill or so left and 3 right ....
Click to expand...

Soctty,
If you only have 3 mils on one side this will effect your elevation travel. What happens the erector hits the side of the scope not allowing the full range of elevation. You can have the base screw holes drilled and taped to make bigger and at this same time make them truly centered, this should help.

I have a Remington 700 in REM 260, 21" barrel, with a 20moa NF base and the Kahles 6-24x56mm I have get 20.4mils.


Mike @ CSTACTICAL
 
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vonbalkenbush said:
I own all three of these scopes and they will all give you the same problem. All of These scopes have an approx total of 26 mils elevation. That means that when the erector is mechanically centered, you will have 13 mils up elevation and 13 mils down elevation. No magic solution here, if you're going to be shooting out to 1400m routinely you will need a 45 MOA canted base in order to be able to dial your scope to that elevation without having to hold over on your reticle. No way around it, 20 MOA bases are usually good to about 1100-1200m depending on what cartridge you're running, but not much further. Hope that helps.

-VB
Click to expand...

I follow you, but what happens when an S&B is zeroed (at any range) ? How many effective Mils are left when the zero stop is set? I can recall somebody in the past explained (at least what I got out of it) that when zeroed + zero stop applied, the scope should have all the mils available again? Please can you confirm if that is right? Thanks in advance for any additional input.
 
There is no shortcut, you need the correct base in order to get the maximum elevation out of these scopes.

They are designed for 45MOA in order to take advantage of the advertised elevation, there is no turret slip trick.

Doesn't matter if you bought the S&B it's the same ... Just like if you had a 4-16x S&B a 20MOA won't cut it, you need at least 28 MOA to get the advertised 13Mils.
 
Lowlight said:
There is no shortcut, you need the correct base in order to get the maximum elevation out of these scopes.

They are designed for 45MOA in order to take advantage of the advertised elevation, there is no turret slip trick.

Doesn't matter if you bought the S&B it's the same ... Just like if you had a 4-16x S&B a 20MOA won't cut it, you need at least 28 MOA to get the advertised 13Mils.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification, really helped me out of this puzzle.:D
 
yep ive ordered my 20 moa sphur ..although ive been waiting 4 weeks for it to arrive :( was as good as reason as any to upgrade haha now have 40 moa and if it doesnt centre the windage ill take it to the gunsmiths and see if they can get it within the a mill
dieselgeek said:
Great thread, I was wondering the same thing myself. I have a 20 MOA base, and a 0 MOA sphur. I guess I need a 20 MOA mount now.
Click to expand...
 
cheers ill be getting the windage sorted for sure now cant wait to get my mount and have evereything set right had this new toy for months now and still havnt shot it past 100m lol got 50 rounds just waiting to go once i finally get it mounted and have a permanent zero set
CSTactical said:
Soctty,
If you only have 3 mils on one side this will effect your elevation travel. What happens the erector hits the side of the scope not allowing the full range of elevation. You can have the base screw holes drilled and taped to make bigger and at this same time make them truly centered, this should help.

I have a Remington 700 in REM 260, 21" barrel, with a 20moa NF base and the Kahles 6-24x56mm I have get 20.4mils.


Mike @ CSTACTICAL
Click to expand...
 
Mounted mine in a 6 mil spuhr mount on a 20 MOA surgeon action and had 23 mils of elevation from my 100 yard zero. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398087150.068364.jpg
 
With a 20 moa base, I still think you should have more than 12.5 mils up. I know on my fn spr with a 20moa base, my zero was approx 7mils up from the very bottom of the elevation turret ( after following directions in the manual to "reset" the zero stop allowing full range of the elevation turret). That gave me almost 19mils of elevation above zero. On my surgeon with 20moa base and 6mil spuhr mount, I have approx 25mils elevation above my zero. Sorry if this has already been asked..I read the whole post but maybe missed it, but did you go thru the instructions in the manual to reset the turret? When I first got the scope out it didn't have the full range of 260 clicks or 26 mils, but after "resetting" the turret per directions it did. Just checking...
 
drjjl said:
With a 20 moa base, I still think you should have more than 12.5 mils up. I know on my fn spr with a 20moa base, my zero was approx 7mils up from the very bottom of the elevation turret ( after following directions in the manual to "reset" the zero stop allowing full range of the elevation turret). That gave me almost 19mils of elevation above zero. On my surgeon with 20moa base and 6mil spuhr mount, I have approx 25mils elevation above my zero. Sorry if this has already been asked..I read the whole post but maybe missed it, but did you go thru the instructions in the manual to reset the turret? When I first got the scope out it didn't have the full range of 260 clicks or 26 mils, but after "resetting" the turret per directions it did. Just checking...
Click to expand...

think it could possibly have something to do with the windage being so far off as mike from CS said ...i reseted everything and scratched my head over it for hours before starting this thread ...just got an email and my spuhr mount has been posted finally should be here by tuesday. .
..so given good weather i should be posting an update on here very soon...
I have the base bedded new mount with another 20moa and hopefully have windage sorted ...might finally get some shooting in one of these days haha
 
sphur 20moa ring mounted to nightforce 20moa base ....took her out today retweaked scope base alignment as much as i could and now have 3.8mils right and 6.4mils left ...not at all perfect but will have to do for now i just want to get time behind the rifle ...and a total of 21mils of elevation :) set at 100m zero all set to go ......now all i have to do is figure out how to get these damn 230gr bergers to shoot tight groups!!! grrrrr :mad:
 

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So what Mike said about windage appears correct. You gained 8 mils from a 6 mil mount when you changed windage. As a test, you could turn the windage to center and see if you gain any more elevation (shouod be 1.3 mils to the left for center if I'm mathing right). If that works and you want that extra 2 mils or whatever you gain in elevation you'll need to have the receiver holes enlarged and retapped correctly trued to the action as per his suggestion.
 
RyeDaddy said:
So what Mike said about windage appears correct. You gained 8 mils from a 6 mil mount when you changed windage. As a test, you could turn the windage to center and see if you gain any more elevation (shouod be 1.3 mils to the left for center if I'm mathing right). If that works and you want that extra 2 mils or whatever you gain in elevation you'll need to have the receiver holes enlarged and retapped correctly trued to the action as per his suggestion.
Click to expand...

just maxed out elevation and tried turning windage left and right and to center and couldn't gain anymore elevation ??? maybe its maxed out mechanically now from zero ? ..i actually used a night force base made for the hs prescision action i had previously incorrectly ordered ..because its made for the larger gauge screws i was able to tweak it to the left and bolt it down and get my extra mil windage ..that base hadnt been bedded or fited to the recivour before but now it is that could also be reason for extra elevation ....either way all is good now have more than ill ever need.. windage is close enough to be happy with i guess ...like i said next problems is these 2inch groups :mad: lol if i can get those 230gr bergers to shoot like my 243 ill be ready to test out to 1200m+ :D

DSCN6595.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUBOzRxih4Q
 
Do you think that having a base that can be tweaked on the action is causing your large groups?

IE: matbe the rifle shoots the 230's fine but the scope/base is not holding zero?

May be worth exploring I think.
 
RyeDaddy said:
Do you think that having a base that can be tweaked on the action is causing your large groups?

IE: matbe the rifle shoots the 230's fine but the scope/base is not holding zero?

May be worth exploring I think.
Click to expand...

i did consider that factor and after 40 odd rounds i didnt have to adjust windage from zero too much tho ...groups are two touching then one high ...or one low then two touching ..or one high one left one right ...seemed to be standard open groups ..my old mans advice was to fill the screw hole areas with bedding compound ..something i am considering doing now you mentioned it because the thought had pooped into my head too ....but my groups where the same using the proper rem 700 nightforce base before hand ...i just couldnt tweak it as far left as i could the hs base to get windage more centre
 
I have a 20MOA base and I get 16 mils out of mine. That's enough to get me out to about 1300yd, which is fine with me. I'm considering putting this in a 20MOA sphur mount but my Sphur rings are treating me very well for now.
 
16 mils is about right, I have a 20 MOA rail built into my deviant action, and a 20 MOA spuhr. I get 24 mils or so out of it now. Used 21 mils to shoot 1690 yards yesterday.
 
dieselgeek said:
16 mils is about right, I have a 20 MOA rail built into my deviant action, and a 20 MOA spuhr. I get 24 mils or so out of it now. Used 21 mils to shoot 1690 yards yesterday.
Click to expand...

Is the 21 mils to get to 1690 yds with your 6.5 CM?

Curious because I would have guessed a little less.
Granted I have never shot past 1500, and I know drop starts happening faster and faster out there!
 
With 139 scenars it has me at 22.5mils at 1690. Ryan's using 140 hybrids so I believe his number. Velocity for my 139's are just under 1000fps...so you're right. dropping like a rock!
 
I mounted a Kahles K624i AMR on my DTA SRS in DTA 20 moa base/rings when the scope arrived, and after zeroing the 6x47 Lapua bbl at 100yds, had 14 mils of elevation left. Moved the Kahles over to a M700 - also in 6x47 - with a NF 20 moa sloped base, and now have 21.7 mils remaining when zeroed at 100yds. If I mounted the Kahles on another of the M700s I have, I'd expect to find that the amount of elevation left over & above a 100yd zero would be different than it was on either of the other two rifles I've had it on.

Point is, mounting a scope on different action/bbl combinations will have different results. Since your M700's receiver is drilled & tapped so as to result in the scope being slightly off axis in windage, it's no surprise that its contour results in you having less elevation than you might've reasonably expected.
 
nfoley said:
Is the 21 mils to get to 1690 yds with your 6.5 CM?

Curious because I would have guessed a little less.
Granted I have never shot past 1500, and I know drop starts happening faster and faster out there!
Click to expand...


Yes, 2804 FPS, 140g Berger hybrid.

[video=youtube;-3Fg3yPKnzs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3Fg3yPKnzs&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
just on another note not sure if this would affect having extra or less mills of elevation or not but the scope ring hieght went from1.100 - 1.460 with the sphur base
 
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