Gunsmithing  KMW Loggerhead Adjustable Cheek Piece Hardware

kevstod

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Greetings,
I am looking for contact information about the KMW Loggerhead adjustable cheek piece hardware. Seems when I get to their website showing the hardware there is no contact information.
Any help would be much appreciated to help me finish my project.
 

kevstod

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Re: KMW Loggerhead Adjustable Cheek Piece Hardware

Thanks for the quick reply- much appreciated.
 

jmoney911

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Re: KMW Loggerhead Adjustable Cheek Piece Hardware

Do you have a link to a description/DIY instructions on how to install one of these cheek piece mechanisms? I'm looking to install one in a walnut stock I have laying around.
 

bodywerks

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Re: KMW Loggerhead Adjustable Cheek Piece Hardware

As soon as i get the hardware I'll probably do a little thread on it here.
 

Midwestside

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Sorry to necropost, but can somebody please tell me the e-clip size? Lost mine and probably lack the ability to get an accurate measure/read in the right spot?
 

Waorani

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Looks like 3/8" to me but probably best to ask Terry at KMW directly to make sure it's not an oddball metric or something. Alternatively, one of those hardware places with all the slide out boxes of parts should have a good selection to try.
 

Xander3Zero

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Yeah if you can find a good hardware store, just bring your cheek piece into the store with you and try a few clips to see which one fits the best, or give Terry a call. He will definitely get you straightened out.
 

Terry Cross

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Sorry to necropost, but can somebody please tell me the e-clip size? Lost mine and probably lack the ability to get an accurate measure/read in the right spot?

Email me your mailing address and I will get a couple of spares on the way to you at no charge.

The exact part used in the assemblies is an aircraft grade stainless clip. Seastrom part number and description is:
Seastrom Stock #2730-11-37
3/8" Stainless Steel E-style retaining clip.
PH15-7MO Material
Rotor-Clip stock number E-37-SS

I purchase these 5,000 at a time and send them through a chrome sulphide bath to permanently blacken.
These assemblies end up in a lot of work rifles and are also used as OEM hardware on stocks going to places where maintenance is not always assured. Accordingly, I spec the all the parts including these small components to the highest standard I can find. In this case corrosion resistant PH15 stainless made to very close +/- .

You could just as easily go to your local Fastenal or similar and get any 3/8" E-style external clip if ever in a bind.

I actually have extremely few calls for replacements because once set, these usually are not moved again until a different scope/mount or shooter comes into play.
 
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Terry Cross

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I have heard that some hardware sets out there may not weigh as little as advertised once all of the components are included.

If you are trying to count every fraction of an ounce, you may find hardware that weighs less than the KMW but none better and most certainly none with the excellent track record of the LoggerHead assembly.
 
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Terry Cross

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...
2.4oz... Just checked one to see if the planet had a gravitational shift.

Nope.

20180424_111042[1].jpg


59% difference in advertised versus measured on several accurate scales including certified USPS scales.

Is there anything on the pan of this scale that is not part of an LRI 2.4 ULTACH assembly? What has to be removed from this assembly to arrive at 2.4 ounces?


T
./
 

surgeon260

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I have drop shipped a few McMillan stocks to Terry for Loggerhead install, and his work/hardware is impeccable. KMW will continue to get my business because not only does he build a kickass product that he stands behind 100% (which, okay, other companies do as well), but he is a pleasant person and a joy to deal with.

I wish some industry folks on here would realize that snark trolling highly respected companies/people is a big turn off to consumers who value working with decent human beings, regardless of how great your product might be. I don't think I am alone here. Maybe they are crushing it with millennials, but I am left with a bad taste in my mouth.
 

Xander3Zero

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@Terry Cross I have a question that you may or may not be able to answer given the limited details, but I'll give it a shot.

I have a McM A5 that Joe Ducos installed the Loggerhead into. Joe did great work as expected, your Loggerhead hardware met and exceeded all expectations.

Now I just recently received a T4A from Manners which comes with the Loggerhead installed. The thing that I have noticed, is that I have to crank much harder on the tensioning screw in order to get it to secure the cheek piece. Enough so that it is difficult to fully secure the cheek piece in place using a screwdriver-style bit driver. It seems like the screw is encountering resistance that isn't actually providing any clamping force on the cheekpiece pillars. A small ratcheting wrench gave me plenty of leverage to go another 1/4 turn and now everything is tight.

No issues once it is tightened down, just curious to pick your brain and see if you have encountered this before? Like I said, I have no problem tightening it down on my other stock.
 
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mdmp5

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    Back in late ‘13 I had joe ducos install kmw hardware in 2 stocks in one sitting. Totally changed the rifles. Amazing work
     
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    Terry Cross

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    @Terry Cross I have a question that you may or may not be able to answer given the limited details, ........

    Your MCS T4A is an awesome stock.

    You are right about 2 things:
    #1 - The clamp should not be that difficult to lock on your T4A.
    #2 - Yes it is tough to diagnose w/o getting a chance to racoon it.

    My guess is that either the crossbolt hole is out of alignment with the clamp which would allow the outside shell of the stock to put things in a bind
    or
    Some of the adhesive used to anchor the clamp into the stock was allowed to migrate into the slot running down the long axis of the clamp body. That would retard the ability of the clamp to flex close and open.

    If you would like to have it looked at you are welcome to send it to the KMW shop on my UPS account. I would sort it out and get it on the way back within 1 business day. I am 110% sure that MCS would be happy to handle any issues with it as well but I am not going to volunteer their commitment in this thread. I just know them and know that they want customers happy.

    If you decide to pursue, hit me at Terry@kmwlrs.com rather than this forum please.
    Be safe.


    T
    ./
     

    Xander3Zero

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    Your MCS T4A is an awesome stock.

    You are right about 2 things:
    #1 - The clamp should not be that difficult to lock on your T4A.
    #2 - Yes it is tough to diagnose w/o getting a chance to racoon it.

    My guess is that either the crossbolt hole is out of alignment with the clamp which would allow the outside shell of the stock to put things in a bind
    or
    Some of the adhesive used to anchor the clamp into the stock was allowed to migrate into the slot running down the long axis of the clamp body. That would retard the ability of the clamp to flex close and open.

    If you would like to have it looked at you are welcome to send it to the KMW shop on my UPS account. I would sort it out and get it on the way back within 1 business day. I am 110% sure that MCS would be happy to handle any issues with it as well but I am not going to volunteer their commitment in this thread. I just know them and know that they want customers happy.

    If you decide to pursue, hit me at Terry@kmwlrs.com rather than this forum please.
    Be safe.


    T
    ./

    Thanks for the generous offer to help me out Terry, it is much appreciated. At this point, I am not sure that I am even worried about "fixing it" b/c like I said, once it is tightened up there seem to be no issues. And given my experiences so far with Tom Manners, I agree that he would also probably be more than happy to take a look at it and remedy any issues.

    I will take a closer peek at it later, but I am pretty sure that the middle portion of the clamp body is free to flex as designed and there is no adhesive preventing that. Seems likely that it may be an out of alignment hole which is causing the screw to bind a bit before actually tightening down on the clamp bar. Thanks for the response.
     
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    Terry Cross

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    You're welcome.

    I would still encourage you to get it squared away. You have a lot of money tied up in the rifle and everything should perform as expected individually so that your rifle as a whole can be it's best.

    I will have a no-tools knob for the crossbolt assembly soon and MCS is already offering one. If you or another future owner of that stock/rifle ever wants to consider that add-on feature, the clamp will need to work without needing 1,750 ft/lbs of torque on it to function.

    If you can't sort it out on your end or decide to change your mind down the road you have at least 2 businesses on standby.

    T
    ./
     
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    mdmp5

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    Hey Terry will the manners knob work with any stock like a McMillan?
     

    Xander3Zero

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    Thanks @Terry Cross

    If the issue was that the crossbolt hole in the stock was misaligned to the hole in the clampbar, would a potential fix just be to slightly enlarge the cross-holes in the stock until the misalignment wasn't causing any binding?
     

    Terry Cross

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    Re: KMW Loggerhead Adjustable Cheek Piece Hardware

    Terry Cross 318-748-8732
    Gottschall (and anyone else reading the opening of this 2013 thread ), be aware that the business line for KMW is 318-528-8834.

    The 8732 number was correct for the first 27 years the shop was in Forest Hill. In 2014 I moved into a bigger building in Alexandria, but the Planning Commission would not let me move the number with me due to stupid borders given to certain telecommunication providers.

    So since 2014, the number has been 318 528 8834 which was also updated on the KMW website.
     
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    Terry Cross

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    Re: KMW Loggerhead Adjustable Cheek Piece Hardware

    Do you have a link to a description/DIY instructions on how to install one of these cheek piece mechanisms? I'm looking to install one in a walnut stock I have laying around.

    No sir, I do not. I am taking steps to remedy that situation and supply supporting information.

    I have been very blessed to have the hardware do very well but never envisioned it being sold individually as a daily occurrence. It was initially meant to be supplied to and installed as OEM hardware or repeat conversions by businesses like Joe Ducos's.

    I have heard there is at least one decent "how to" video on a Savage Forum but have not personally seen it.

    Once I have generated the documentation, I will be linking it up on this site and others. In the mean time, if you have any specific questions regarding an installation, feel free to contact me direct as I would be happy to help.

    Be safe.
    T

    ./
     
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    surgeon260

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    Terry, sort of an unrelated question, but I figured I would ask it here so that everyone can see the answer:

    Are you accepting orders for individual custom Sentinel rifles, or are you currently focused more on agency contract work involving orders for multiple rifles? I would love to place an order with you for a complete Sentinel rifle (fully understanding you have a backlog), but if that one-off type of work is too straining for your business or not worth your time, I totally understand. Thanks in advance.
     

    Terry Cross

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    Are you accepting orders for individual custom Sentinel rifles, or are you currently focused more on agency contract work involving orders for multiple rifles? Thanks in advance.

    I ceased accepting individually spec'd rifles about 6 years ago. It was a preemptive survival move on my part. I could not stay focused on my new projects and keep outgoing quality standards where I deemed necessary while fighting with customer supplied stocks wrong for the DBM, customer supplied barrel blanks wrong for the caliber, customer supplied triggers wrong for the action, etc. etc. etc. . .. . . .

    I ship quite a few rifles a year to individuals but they are all "Spec" rifles built to the SENTINEL and LongSword patterns. About 3 years ago, I did start allowing individual KMW spec rifles have the barrel length and muzzle thread/device be dictated by the customer waiting on that slot in the list. I also started allowing variations in triggers but may stop that again after getting bit in the ass back to back. (anybody looking to buy an XTSD Model 22 trigger please call the shop.)

    Calibers I cut for will have a default chamber/lead/throat and barrels will be Hvy Palma Kriegers from my in house supply.

    It sucks for some that I can't offer 100% custom specs for every customer and it also sucks that I cannot accurately forecast how soon certain waiting lists will cycle because I put agency work at the front every time. The only way I can help with this is by not taking anybody's money or deposit until rifles are ready to ship.

    Thanks for asking anyway.

    T.

    ./
     

    Terry Cross

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    ...

    2.4oz... Just checked one to see if the planet had a gravitational shift.

    Nope.


    I was doubting even the other certified scales meant for heavier items, so I measured the hardware on a PACT digital powder scale and a lab scale. I weighed all the components in groups so I wouldn't get close to the maximum weight limit of the scales. Setting up the units in grams I got these 4 readings after calibrating the scales.

    The sum of these 4 groups = 108.24 grams.
    108.24 grams = 3.81805 Ounces.
    That rounds off to the 3.82 oz. that all the other scales registered for the assembled hardware set.

    Are there 2 versions of this hardware and the one shown is the heavy one?

    Composite weights x 4.jpg
     

    LongRifles Inc.

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    Tom Manners buys these from us for his Sheep rifle stocks. In that configuration he elects to delete the installation hardware and go with screws using a wood type thread pitch/geo. The weight drops significantly.

    I don't make the screws or the insert bushings. One has to install it somehow. It could be glued in, however I don't care for that. Should it ever need to come out your stuck and quite frankly a caulking gun full of Marine Tex is not my idea of fitting parts. It's gunmaking. Not home improvment.

    This hardware has gone through a revision in the last 4 years that we've offered them. The bushing was added for the side screw and I beefed up the portion that goes into the cheek piece.

    So, it's a 3.9 ULTACH from here forward. 1.4oz heavier than the original version.

    I suck and it'll be updated.

    For perspective:

    4 quarters. 2 dimes. 2 nickels. 1 penny. 612 grains. 1.4 oz.

    The change in your pocket. . .
     
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    Terry Cross

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    Tom has nothing to do with this nor the question posed.

    You are the one pushing the 2.4 number. Tom’s deletion or addition of any hardware component has a net effect of 0.000 on the delivered weight of your hardware to consumers. Bringing a solid dude like Tom and a great company like MCS into this conversation does nothing to help your case.

    I have no issue with whether your hardware weighs 1 ounce or 16 pounds. I think the issue is that you repeatedly troll into threads and subtly throw monkey crap on the walls to get digs in on other companies or individuals.

    I see this consistently and most of us just shrug and move on because nobody that is truly in this for a living has time for internet drama.

    It appears that you do this in an attempt to shove your own goods into conversations that otherwise never pointed in your direction. Rather than let your own goods and services advance on their own merit, you seem to be so insecure that you have to consistently dig at others in this industry.

    When anyone questions your input, you become doubly negative and defensive. In this case you actually physically checked the weight of the hardware (according to your own words on March 27th) and confirmed very firmly that the 2.4 ounce number was correct. How can you now say that 4 years of revisions account for the weight gain but just 4 weeks ago the same hardware was still weighing 2.4 ounces when it clearly didn't?

    .....again, I could care less what your hardware weighs. That's is no longer the point.

    You say you don’t make the screws and bushings. No worries there but you still sell and supply those parts as part of your hardware going into a host stock. You can’t selectively pick and choose what your hardware will weigh by simply not counting some pieces.

    Even in your post today, you continue to have a fetish for caulking guns and allude to failures or shortcomings in other hardware that you can’t substantiate.

    You are a smart dude and know how to innovate. Just leave the bag of shit at home and let your own work stand on its own merit. You would probably retire very wealthy. This is a very small community and healthy competition makes us all stronger. We all need to survive and thrive through excellence rather than try to do it via petty crap. It’s not a pretty look.

    I wish you and your shop the very best. Seriously.
     

    LongRifles Inc.

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    Tom has nothing to do with this nor the question posed.

    You are the one pushing the 2.4 number. Tom’s deletion or addition of any hardware component has a net effect of 0.000 on the delivered weight of your hardware to consumers. Bringing a solid dude like Tom and a great company like MCS into this conversation does nothing to help your case.


    It wasn't meant to help the case. Merely explain the evolution of this. Tom is the guy who approached me about this. It was his request that I come up with it. Based on that fact I'd say it is kind of relevant as it wouldn't even be here if he had not picked up the phone.

    Supplied hardware can be changed just like an ADL off the shelf from Walmart is changed in shops like mine or anyone else's. Tom elects not to use the hardware for sake of streamlining his production and to save additional weight. So based on what my end user is doing, I'd say it has merit.

    I never made a single comment about failures. Not once. What I did say is I don't care for the presentation. FWIW I've yet to have anyone ever state that one of your hardwares has failed ever. It's a robust piece. Time has demonstrated that.

    As for the vibe I put out. You may be right. I'm guilty of being who I am and I don't always use the level of tact that I probably should. Guilty as charged and my apologies.

    C.
     
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    NVScout

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    For what it’s worth ... Manners reps talked me out of the 2.4 vs the KMW due to the negligible weight differences after installs. He also stated “the loggerhead is a more rubust unit “
     
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    tansinator

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    If we are sticking to the topic here, LRI should have never even posted his "Lightest hardware made" comment and started his own thread if he wanted to advertise. Terry has always gone out of his way to help here and would never advertise on someone else's thread. Matter of fact, people have always advertised for him and he just answers questions. Sign of a true gentleman. I will probably get bashed for stating this, but bash on.

    Thank you Terry Cross
     

    MarcS

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    Chad, this is why so many of us from the industry side of the community have lost respect for you over time. None of us care how many ounces your product weighs. Most of us don't really care that you were obviously exhaggerating it's weight either. That's not the point. Bursting in on this thread that never involved you only to ridicule a competitors product and brag about your own is a low class move that speaks volumes about your character. So does reacting in your usual overly defensive shitty manner. That's all that matters.

    Marc Soulie
     

    MarcS

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    If we are sticking to the topic here, LRI should have never even posted his "Lightest hardware made" comment and started his own thread if he wanted to advertise. Terry has always gone out of his way to help here and would never advertise on someone else's thread. Matter of fact, people have always advertised for him and he just answers questions. Sign of a true gentleman. I will probably get bashed for stating this, but bash on.

    Thank you Terry Cross


    True and well said.

    Marc Soulie
     

    NorCal Vu

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    "Never go full retard" rings loud and clear here....

    1. If your product was the shit, it sells itself.

    2. If you know Terry, the man builds a lot of working guns and I guess those end users give two shits about an oz or two as long as the system is bomber.

    3. Even for a recreational shooter like myself, the last thing I think about is "Gee, is my adjustable cheek piece hardware 2.4 or 6oz?" as I hand my gunsmith an MTU or M40 contour barrel and ask for it be finished at 28"

    4. Have you ever heard of a guy kicking a Unicorn in the balls? Of course not, because you just don't do that shit. It never ends well. :)
     

    Pav67

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    I’ve used Terry’s products and received his much appreciated advise.Products,customer service and experience delivered by a true professional.Doesn’t hurt that he’s a helluva nice guy to talk to either.Thanks for your contribution to the shooting community Terry
     

    JWG284

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    My thoughts exactly.
    I’ve used Terry’s products and received his much appreciated advise.Products,customer service and experience delivered by a true professional.Doesn’t hurt that he’s a helluva nice guy to talk to either.Thanks for your contribution to the shooting community Terry
     
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    sid

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    I finished my kmw installation, it came out good but next time I'll have stockdoc do it :)
     

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